Da Clip Show: Keeping an Eye on the Tribe’s AAA Squad – 8/31/2010
August 31, 2010While We’re Waiting… Right Side Reps, Blitzing Woes and Cavs Starting Five
September 1, 2010Thursday night the Ohio State Buckeyes open the 2010 season against the Marshall Thundering Herd. While the Buckeyes are a little in the dark as to the type of offense that Marshall will run with a new coaching staff, they are still the prohibitive favorites in the game.
Most of the talk surrounding the Buckeyes this season has to do with their Junior signal caller Terrelle Pryor. Pryor came to the Buckeyes one of the most hyped prep QBs of all time, so lofty expectations would be the norm. Whether the Buckeyes contend for the National Championship or not seems to be resting squarely on his shoulders and feet.
This season, in addition to the talk of Big Ten titles and National Championship aspirations a new expectation has been put in front of Pryor- namely the Heisman trophy.
An argument can be made that Pryor is the biggest weapon on the #2 team in the country, and so Heisman talk is warranted. Fine. I suppose. Terrelle had an excellent Rose Bowl game last season, which is of course the lasting memory that national writers and college football fans hang on to. But this Buckeye fan has a little more reservation left over from two seasons of wounded duck passes.
Terrelle Pryor hasn’t proven he can deliver the ball down the field with any kind of consistency. Teams game planning for the Buckeyes last year dared Pryor to beat them with his arm. They loaded up the box to shut down the running game, and while Saine and Herron are a good pair of backs they aren’t George and Griffin. The Heisman is given (theoretically) to the best player in all of college football. Would you hand that award to a QB who opposing defenses want to throw the ball?
I want the young man to succeed. He has to make significant strides this season if the Buckeyes are to contend. He has to read defenses better. He has to make quicker decisions. He has to put the ball in the right spots. He needs to improve on his completion percentage. In fact his completion percentage, yards per pass, touchdown to interception ratio and QB rating all dropped from his freshman to sophomore years. All must improve. Especially for a QB that has Heisman hype attached to his name.
I would rather the Heisman talk go away. Let’s see Pryor use that Rose Bowl game as a stepping stone. How about he prove himself to be a threat throwing the ball before he earns Heisman consideration?
22 Comments
Good piece. I’ve been saying the same thing all Summer. Pryor is a huge threat with his legs, but has not shown any consistency reading defenses or throwing the ball with accuracy. One Rose Bowl does not make a career. TP has to be a better decision maker and up to this point in his career he has not shown he has all his marbles on the field nor in front of a microphone.
i dunno…saying hes not a legit candidate because teams want him to throw just makes you wonder about the heisman in general…i mean, its just a glamour type trophy anyways…the “best” football player any given year is not always a RB or QB…there are some terribly gifted Linebackers year in and year out, but they tend to get their own looks for trophies…they should just do away with the whole “best player in football” and rename it to say “best offensive player, non-lineman”.
that being said, i have no issue with TP being in the conversation because he has the ability to win games on his own…and in the Big 10, along with the rest of college football, thats a great thing….because winning = heisman…ask eric crouch and troy smith….its not the best prospect at the next level…its the one who wins the most games, has the best supporting cast, or is that much better overall than everyone else, that being on a 6-6 team will still allow him to win it (Jake Locker this year potentially)…
I think that TP is one of the most overrated players in college football. I hope he does well and I hope proves me wrong, but I’ve been disappointed with his arm and his football intelligence.
He has only been getting better, and big game play is the most important…
I find it hard to say Pryor is not a very good passer when he is ranked 10th all-time in Ohio State career passing yards in only two years on campus. If he continues his current pace, he’ll finish third all-time behind two other once Heisman canidates in Art Schlichter and Bobby Hoying. He also ranks 8th in pass completions in a single season. I think he is very well deserving to be in the Heisman talk. He’s ranked 8th in career TD’s, and is the only other buckeye to pass for 200+ and rush for 100+ in a game, the other being Heisman Winner Troy Smith.
@ sealedhuman
While I agree that Terrelle Pryor can definitely improve on his passing and all general areas of the game, please explain to me how he is one of the most overrated players in college football? He owns a 19-4 record as a starter.
Key wins:
True Freshmen
@ #18 ranked Wisconsin (A game winning drive by TP)
@ #20 Michigan State
@ #24 Northwestern
Sophomore
@ #11 Penn State (He basically won the game for OSU)
Home vs. #10 Iowa (OSU’s Def. won that game)
Rose Bowl vs. #7 Oregon (Took over that game)
Key Losses:
True Freshman
Home vs. #3 Penn State (He fumbled – lost the game for OSU)
Fiesta Bowl vs. #3 Texas (Defense didn’t hold the final drive)
Sophomore:
Home vs. #3 USC (Defense couldn’t hold the final drive)
@ unraked Purdue (We all know that debacle)
So he has lost 3/4 times to the then #3 ranked team in the nation. Sure, USC was overrated. But it was the 2nd game of the season and our defense didn’t hold them on the final drive. Let alone the fact that Joe McKnight never saw the endzone on his run they called a TD. So he’s single handedly lost 2 games for OSU: against #3 Penn State, and the Purdue debacle.
I would say that being 19-4 as a starter is a pretty impressive record considering 3 of the 4 losses suffered were to a higher ranked #3 team in the country.
@Gus, how many years do most QBs get to start at OSU? I would say 2 at best. Occasionally 3. If he starts all 4 years he better set all kinds of career records.
You’re telling me that watching Pryor every week you honestly think he’s even an above average passer?
@Rick – I dont know that he’s an above average passer, but he gets the ball to the receiver doesnt he? VY has the same dopey-lerpy throwing motion, but he seems to win games that hes in too…
I would agree that most QBs at OSU only start 2, maybe 3 years total…and that *would* have been the case had it not been for injuries…cant fault him for winning games ugly as much as you can blame him for losing them from trying to be the man…
Again, this isn’t about contributing to a winning team. I’m just a little surprised that suddenly there is talk of Pryor as ‘the best college football player out there.’
As far as getting the ball to the receiver, that’s actually my point. I’d like to see him do that more consistently before handing him any awards.
How about the eye test? I don’t think there’s a single game in his career where I was watching and thought “this is a Heisman performance”, including the Rose Bowl. At his absolute best, the Rose Bowl last season, he looked like a good running QB and a decent-to-good passing QB. He sure didn’t look like a Heisman QB then. Heisman performances are like, say, Troy Smith’s games against ND or Texas round 2, or Vince Young against Michigan.
Let’s actually remember what he really did in that game.
23-37 (62%) for 266 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT passing, plus 20 rushes for 72 yards. Good, for sure, but not great. Now compare to the bowl games that brought spotlights on Troy and Vince Young.
19-28 (67%) for 342 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT passing, plus 13 rushes for 66 yards for Troy.
16-28 (57%) for 180 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT passing, plus 21 rushes for 192 yards and 4 TDs rushing for Vince Young.
Then remember what kinds of games those two had the next season, and VY didn’t even win it. Then look at other recent Heisman QBs. If Pryor keeps up his stats from the Rose for an entire season and let’s even be generous, give him some mild improvement, he’ll be around 25 passing TDs and 4500 passing yards. Those numbers aren’t even all that great, and does anyone honestly think he’s going to average them over the entire season? I sure don’t. Until Pryor can even match those numbers, there’s no point in discussing him and the Heisman. Especially since I don’t think anyone would really argue that he’s actually the best football player in the country.
@Rick, you are right, most QB’s start 2 years but they are Juniors and Seniors and have 2(3 if redshirt) years in the system. While I don’t believe Pryor is an above average passer, I don’t think he needs to be since he has the ability to run. His dual threat abilities make him a heisman canidate, not his drop back passing ability. Was Eric Crouch a great passer? No. Was he a heisman favorite all season, yes. Same with Tebow. Those guys, along with Pryor, had great teams, great abilities and won. Pryor should def be a Heisman favorite.
Don’t knock the guy because the media had made him into this super elite player before ever playing a down of college football. As I was trying to make my point with the OSU record books, the guy has flat out performed as a true freshman and sophmore. Seeing his name among OSU’s greatest quarterbacks during thier Junior and Senior seasons looks very positive to me.
two words: Tommie Frazier
two more words: didn’t win.
There’s always gonna be someone suggesting that a Buckeye will win the Heisman. I’d imagine a “Ginn 4 Heisman” shirt can be found at some Greater Columbus Goodwill. Whether this warrants an entire post probably depends on who makes the suggestion, and in this case, I’m not so sure who that is.
@ saggy
Orlando Pace
@Brett
Thanks for your reply and for bringing all of those stats! I guess my biggest point is that you cited the team record. Obviously we judge quarterbacks by how often they win, but a mediocre quarterback on a strong team that perennially loses only 1-2 games will always have a strong record. When was the last time that a starting Ohio State quarterback didn’t have a great record?
I’ve just never been impressed with his statistics or his in-game decisions. There is no doubt that TP is an excellent athlete, but I’ve never seen him demonstrate a consistent capacity to get the ball to receivers. ESPN statistics can be suspect, but just to illustrate the point TP was ranked 62 in passing in 2009. he completed 167 out of 295 passes for 2094 yards (56.6% completion). Tressel’s conservative offense might be to blame for the low attempts, but it is not to blame for that abysmal completion percentage. I can’t endorse someone as an elite quarterback when he completes less than 60% of his passes.
Lets not forget the guy is coming into his JUNIOR YEAR. He was basically playing backyard football in high school, scrambling all over the place, drawing up plays in the dirt. Ask anyone close to the program and they will tell you that he has come A LONG way in two years, on the field and off.
I think the fact that hes the best athlete on one of the best teams in the country says it all…
dont get me wrong, I am not saying that he IS the favorite for the Heisman, but I dont see anything wrong with mentioning him with the best of the best at this point…if he proves to be a flash in the pan who had a couple good games, but is ultimately just a RB that throws…so be it…im ok with it…but i think hes a legit contender…
@DK, “I think the fact that hes the best athlete on one of the best teams in the country says it all…”
Notice that you didn’t say he’s the best football player on one of the best teams in the country. It says that he’s one of the best athletes – that’s all it says, not that he’s the best football player on OSU (he’s not), in the conference (he’s not), or the country (he’s not). It also doesn’t say he deserves to be in the conversation for any of those. Remember Vince Young as the best athlete on one of the best teams? Not only was he a significantly better passer than TP, but he was also a significantly better runner. And, again, he didn’t even win the Heisman.
I think it’s safe to say that a Heisman contender must have several great games. TP has had exactly zero great games.
If Pryor wins the Heisman, one of two statements will be true:
1) It will be a really down year for talent in college football
or
2) TP remarkably improved his passing accuracy, decision making and ability to read defense. The improvement will be so grand that even the naysayers will be floored.
Ultimately, I don’t really see either happening, therefore it’s a moot point.
@Alex, Vince Youngs sophmore year had a 59% completion rating and 12td-11ints. Pryor had a 56% comp rating and 18td-11ints. Not signifcantly better. Locker, who was to go #1 in the draft had a 58% comp and 21td-11ints.
Which 2010 Heisman canidate QB would you rather have than Pryor on your team?
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