Hello Adversity: Cavaliers vs Clippers Behind the Box Score
December 1, 2016Why The Indians Won’t Be Players in Center Field Market
December 2, 2016Happy Friday WFNY people. Very happy to get back into a normal routine for a few weeks before the holidays hit again. It’s also lovely to have a Browns bye week this week. So let’s talk about some other stuff.
Poor Joe Thomas…
None of us should pity the millionaires created by the NFL from pooling all of our money. However, that doesn’t mean there’s never any room for empathy for players — even well-compensated ones — when it comes to the bad hands they’ve been dealt. Joe Thomas is that guy for Browns fans. He’s been here a long time and suffered the most out of any single player who has been impacted by upheaval. In his latest round of comments to the media, this is laid bare with his commentary recalling the shocking firing of Rob Chudzinski (via Tony Grossi).
“In a lot of respects that season was a lot like this season we’re going through,” Thomas said. “Because we didn’t even sign a running back [after trading Trent Richardson] because it was like ‘We don’t really care about winning this year. We’ll get one in the draft next year and start working on it more seriously.’ And then they all got fired. So it was pretty crazy for all of us. I think [CEO] Joe Banner thought we’ve got 3-4 years to turn it around so we’ll start building the foundation and we’re not going to sacrifice down the line for right now to pick up the right pieces we’re missing.”
There’s so much to say after hearing Thomas speak about Chud this way. He is revealing a lot to those of us who follow these things (way too) closely. Thomas is usually a glass-half-full kind of guy when it comes to public quotes. This is about as direct a criticism of ownership as you can make. In this statement speaking about Rob Chudzinski’s first year, he’s clearing Chud and Joe Banner of any wrongdoing in terms of playing poorly down the stretch.
That season the Browns went 4-12, but they ended up dropping their last seven straight. It included a four-point loss to the Jags, a one-point loss to the Pats in New England,1 and a seven-point loss to the Bears at home. Chud was fired after a 20-7 loss to the Steelers.
Chudzinski was fired in the same season that the Browns traded Trent Richardson and replaced him with a combo of Willis McGahee and Chris Ogbonnaya. They fired him after a season with Jason Campbell, Brandon Weeden and Brian Hoyer starting games. Greg Little and Davone Bess were still catching (dropping?) passes while Josh Gordon led the league in receiving. The point is that Chud was the fall guy and basically everyone agreed they didn’t have the horses or the leadership to try and commit to winning that year. Joe Thomas just told us that.
This is the reason there’s a lack of faith in Jimmy Haslam’s Browns. The Browns are awful, and that’s at least partially by design, but is it too awful for the owner to stick to the plan? Chud’s Browns weren’t supposed to win either, but apparently losing seven straight to end the season was too much for Haslam to handle at that time and he pulled the trigger.
Will Haslam need to hold someone accountable for what could be an 0-16 season? If so, who will it be? Mary Kay Cabot suggests the Browns need to hire a GM and give away roster authority to him. That’s just one beat writer’s opinion, of course, but it’s instructive of the culture surrounding this team. It’s a culture that we hoped would change with Jimmy Haslam, and it’s only gotten worse in reality. The only one who can make it stop is the same guy who amplified it.
I’m happy Joe Thomas is still here to give us his thoughts and perspective, not to mention play a Hall of Fame-caliber right tackle. I’m also kind of sad for him too.
I need to see The Belko Experiment…
Forget the NCAA tourney, the real March Madness is coming to a theater near you this March. After seeing this trailer, I think this movie will be like a horror episode of The Twilight Zone. I can not wait to see this movie. It takes an office, places it on lockdown and creates a scenario where the workers either need to kill 30 of their coworkers or they can expect 60 to die.
Podcast with Will Burge…
It was a bit of a slow post-Thanksgiving week on the podcast, but I brought in a ringer. I’ve known Will Burge for quite a while now and he’s a really fun guy to talk to about anything, let alone Cleveland sports. We discussed public financing of stadiums and the Cleveland Browns.
Your weekly moment of soccer zen…
I have chills watching this. GOALIE. BICYCLE. EQUALIZER.
Song of the Week: “Better Whenever” by Elway
This came across my Spotify Discover Weekly and damnit if Spotify doesn’t know me very well. I’d never heard of this band and I had reservations about listening to a band from Colorado named Elway for obvious sports reasons. However, the song “Better Whenever” was just too damn good to pass up. In fact, I went and listened to their whole album from 2015 and it’s just the kind of music that I crave. Just enough melody. Just enough raucous screaming. Just enough punk rock without making me hate it. So check it out.
- I’ll never forget the GARBAGE pass interference penalty that gave the Pats the ball on the one to win the game. GARBAGE. [↩]
38 Comments
Props to Joe for speaking up. It is a nice change from the “sunshine, butterflies, sunshine, butterflies, RAINBOW” (loses fourteen games) that we usually get from the players and coaches. Now Hue will inevitably have to say something like, “I spoke to Joe, and he knows how I feel about it. He’s a professional. Losing is frustrating, we all feel it, but there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with it.” and the beat will go on.
Incidentally, I have not seen any debate on this at all, but what are the chances the Browns make a meaningful attempt to sign Pryor, let alone succeed? Everyone seems to assume they will, but on what basis?
Sometimes, I can’t help but think how things would have turned out, if Haslam would have hired Banner and anybody else other than Lombardi.
We have two top talents to sign this offseason. Pryor and Collins. Neither will come cheap. This should give us a pretty good indication of how the Moneyballers intend to run things.
Yep. But we should probably assume that it is technically poor value to sign them. Question is whether they are willing to offer a low-risk, high dollar figure contract (maybe heavily front-loaded so it won’t hurt the cap long term?) so that they don’t further embarrass themselves and their fans. And we have seen nothing to suggest they would do that… except maybe the trade for Collins.
If they don’t sign Collins, they’ll still recoup a compensatory pick, so in essence the HBT gave up nothing to rent him for a season-long tryout.
Both are young, breakout guys that will get player favorable contracts in FA. Browns have so much cap space next year, they can front load 2017 salaries and take the hit, rather than pro-rate the signing bonus over the out years. No one else in the NFL could do that to the extent the Browns can.
These signings have no brainer written all over them, which convinces me they will not get it done.
There’s also supposed to be added efficiency to signing guys who are already with your team and familiar with coaches, systems, routines, etc. Granted Collins and Pryor haven’t been with the Browns long, but it’s supposed to be more efficient to spend money on your own free agents than guys who are entering your building for the first time to sign their deal.
I get that renting him doesn’t mean they will resign him, since the rental cost them nothing. But it shows a willingness to consider resigning him, if he is good enough – and that would show they are willing to give big contracts to good players.
I hope they see it this way but what grounds do we have for optimism? EVERY chance the Browns have had to show they are not simply saving money but are willing to pay for the right guy, they have punted (har, har). Maybe Sashi and Depodesta are different but Haslam is the same.
I think that Haslam has dumped this team firmly in the laps of the HBT.
What we’ve seen thus far, and what we will see in the future will be all on them.
On the accountability front, it would be nice if Jimmy could do some honest introspection and conclude that he’s just not cut out to be an NFL owner — which would be an astonishing admission considering that there are some pretty bad owners out there.
But there’s no way his ego is going to let that happen, so we’re stuck with this bozo for the duration, while he lurches from year to year trying to figure this thing out.
WTH is Mary Kay talking about? I read her article and jumpin’ jehosephat Im startled by her lack of awareness. Its like she learned a new term (20/20 club) then wanted to show it off to her readership to demonstrate how she’s “in the know” with NFL vernacular.
Then she mentions Scott Pioli as a viable candidate, presumably with a straight face. Also, she says to find someone in the Ravens or Patriots scouting departments who are ready for a promotion. Maybe we can give Phil Savage a call? I wonder what George Kokinis is up to? Does Eric Mangini think he can coach and handle draft day duties for us? These all seem like good ideas that haven’t been tried before, right Mary Kay?
Hire a GM, and strip Sashi of power. The GM wont want to re-shape the FO personnel. And theres no way there’d be any head butting between the guy who was stripped of the power and the guy who got the power, especially if the guy who was stripped of the power ultimately has hire/fire authority over the new GM himself, amirite?
Looks like Mary Kay is still sniffing glue.
I think her point was to infuse some “football” people in the current analyic-based FO.
But, I think putting a “football” person above the HBT would mean the end for the HBT.
And I think the HBT has no intention of replacing any of their folks under them with “football” people, so we’re stuck for the time being.
We are firmly in sink or swim mode in regards of our FO and their process.
Yeah…she’s completely high. ALso, isn’t Andrew Berry supposed to be that guy?
yes we are. And whats scary is she doesnt realize that. She also doesnt seem to realize that you cant, after one year, change course and hope to succeed.
We have a setup, we have to let it run its course. Its already been lousy. If we change course without letting things play themselves out, we will continue to be lousy. I just cannot fathom how she is not aware of this.
As you said, sink or swim. Im ok with that. Better than “knee jerk reaction produces no real change and wonder”
Isn’t Andrew Berry supposed to be the “football people?”
He graduated cum laude from Harvard with a bachelor’s degree in economics and master’s in computer science in just four years.
Not that that’s a bad thing, but on the surface, but that definitely fits the narrative for Sashi’s type of “football people”.
So we need to hire the guy from Trouble with the Curve…or his daughter….
The main problem I have had with the Browns is that their decisions are so, so bad, at the time they make them. I know a couple dozen interwebs commentors that would have been significantly better GM’s than what has been delivered under Haslam. Not that they are qualified, nor should the Browns expand the candidate pool to Fantasy Footballers, but that is just how bad they have been.
I am now faced with the horrifying realization the even MKC can be added to that list. If this isn’t rock bottom, I don’t know what is.
https://media.giphy.com/media/BUiBvODgwbw4w/giphy.gif
Really enjoyed the Will Burge podcast. He was spot on with everything Browns related.
I prefer Frowns take on the stadium financing issue, but Will’s comments were not unreasonable. I think when you look at the non-sports related investment side of it, Gateway has been good for Cleveland, First Energy not so much.
Now when you look at the opportunity costs of not spending the money elsewhere, then you have to ask yourself if spending on Sports and Casino’s is a better value than education and transportation (access to jobs). While it’s interesting to watch the C level execs for Cavs and the rest squirm, that is not their decision. The voters need to hold the Commission and Council accountable for appointing the right Gateway board. Current board seems to be split between gov staffers and bankers, with the Board chair on the way out due to conflict of interest. Regardless of what you think of Trump, the fact he was elected has got to put some fear into these incumbent politicians. Cavs should not get a free pass on $70M, championship or not.
Did anyone notice #16 for the Cowboys last night?
yes, but … I’ve always thought Lombardi was to Banner what Kokinis was to Mangini, a specially selected complete sycophant totally beholden to him such that he posed no threat to Banner’s job security. Which was something both Banner and Mangini demanded after they lost power struggles and their jobs in Philly and New York, respectively. The painful lesson they carried from their last job was: protect yourself. And their overreach backfired, not necessarily because Haslam is trigger happy, but because they both overreached, thinking they could evaluate personnel and run drafts as well as anyone else.
I think Joe is mixing the two traumas: Banner whacking Chud, Haslam whacking Banner. It sure seemed at the time like it was Banner crusading for Chud’s head (which was when we heard statements from Alex Mack that portended his escape). And then Haslam sort of shocked when competent HC candidates wanted nothing to do with the Banner/Lombardi arrogance in interviews.
Cleveland was never going to let go of the Lombardi history, and it’s just unconscionable how management either missed or ignored that.
The introductory presser was brutal, but completely unsurprising to everybody not named Banner or Haslam.
Isn’t he though? All he really has to do is spend money and get a lucky GM/Coach hire or so.
I can’t remember – do we know why Banner canned Chud?
Haslam is Trump.
Trump is Haslam.
It’s Friday, so if anyone is interested here’s another novel recommend: “In Times of Fading Light,” by Eugen Ruge (2013).
Setting is a family in East Germany, from the end of the WWII through the period just after the wall fell. This place and time has been a recent interest of mine, and the vivid writing by someone who lived within it takes you inside a world that even the most wonderful works of non-fiction cannot. Much the way I can better comprehend, empathize with and detest a 13 year old “hopper” working a corner for a drug dealer by watching “The Wire” far better than reading a Pulitzer Prize-winning newspaper series about a real one. This book has stayed with me, especially how the author never sermonizes, never makes the system’s oppressiveness overt, but just lets it seep invisibly into every conversation, relationship, and description.
Here’s the NYT review: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/books/in-times-of-fading-light-spans-generations-in-germany.html
not sure we knew with certainty. I remember that Norv Turner, who had seen too much in his career to suffer foolishness, was publicly critical about being left with a broken-down RB and some waiver wire debris, and he and Chud came as a package. Not sure if Chud will be a good HC but of all the firings that one was the most ridic. Like Banner was marking his territory.
for sure. But Lombardi’s prob was not that he was doomed because of fan hostility. He was doomed because of Mingo, and Leon McFadden, and Willis McGahee.
Didn’t Banner start the analytics thing that they ended up trying again three years later?
“The Belko Experiment” gives me MAJOR “Operation: Endgame” vibes. There’s the cool premise, the recognizable/generally likeable cast, the special effects of a movie that isn’t getting some huge release. “Operation: Endgame” turned out to be absolutely awful–and not even in the fun, campy way. It was such a waste of those appealing elements that drew you in that you couldn’t help but be legitimately BOTHERED by the end result. Might give Belko chance if it shows up on Netflix, but that’s about it.
Seriously, I’m irritated now. I’d rather watch this season’s Browns than Endgame.
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Haslam’s got An 8-Point Plan. It goes like this: 1) have a team; 2) hire a coach – any coach, it doesn’t matter who; 3) don’t draft anyone good/expensive; 4) watch the team lose; 5) blame and fire the coach; 6) promise that “it’s going to get better”; 7) rake in bucks from season ticket and merchandise sales; 8) laugh all the way to the bank. So Now You Know.
There is no basis for this forlorn hope. Pryor, if he (or his agent) has half the brains I think he does, will translate this season into a fat contract with a winning team. “Geez”, other teams in the league are saying, “if he can perform this well for the God-forsaken Browns, imagine what he could do with OUR team!”. And off he’ll go to the Hall Of Fame.
Meanwhile, back at the Berea ranch, we’ll hear little Jimmy say, “Golly, Mr. DePodesta, do you really think we’re gonna lose *everything*?”.
Ah, so there are two huge problems – he’s so tight he squeaks when he walks, and that “lucky” thing just ain’t happ’nin’. The whole MoneyBall thing is about NOT spending money and finding “value”. Great idea, but…baseball is a simple game. You throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains. Simple.
The problem is that football is inherently not so simple. Instead of two guys playing catch, one guy swinging a bat, and sixteen other guys mostly standing or sitting around, you have twenty-two guys doing different things simultaneously. Now, if you look at it, what you want to pay for is yardage gained, because without moving the ball down the field you can’t score, and if you can’t score you can’t win. But how does a defensive back get evaluated? Or a linebacker? Or an offensive lineman? That lineman opens holes for a running back to run through – but it the RB gets hammered in the backfield because the guy on the other side of the line didn’t pick up the blitzing linebacker who *thought* it was going to be a pass but just happened to get lucky and nailed the RB for a six yard loss..? You see my point – there’s a ton of variables in the air here, a lot more than exist in baseball, and the analysis is a long way from simple. Analytically I suspect you’re always in one of two modes: either 1) you’re so buried in the details you can’t see The Big Picture, or 2) you’re looking at ants from 10000 feet up and can’t figure out he details!
Paulie D has my sympathy, the poor bugger…
Not necessarily true. It is total lost minus total gained. We could sign a lesser FA and lose Collins and not receive that pick.