Tame the Lions: Ohio State – Penn State Preview
October 20, 2016Roberto Perez ALCS MVP
October 21, 2016Happy Friday everyone! It really is one of the happiest sports Fridays in Cleveland sports history if you think about it. Of course, there’s nothing I’d rather talk about this week than the Cleveland Indians.
I think we all needed a reminder of how good Cleveland Indians baseball can be…
One of the refrains consistently heard in Cleveland over the past ten years is why a bad Browns team gets more attention than the Cleveland Indians. It’s usually a conversation about attendance, but this is more about attention and energy. I’ve heard fans complain that sports talk radio doesn’t discuss the Indians enough. Even as a Browns-first Cleveland fan as I usually am, I understand the complaints. I understand the logic of wondering why Tribe tickets seem to be less valuable than a ticket for a bad Browns team. That’s always felt like too much of a simplification of the issue. At the heart of it all — and this is something the Cavaliers have taught us — is quality.
Now we’ve been reminded of it with the Indians as well.
This is for the Tribe fans with an inferiority complex. The Indians are putting the Cleveland Browns in their shadow. Granted, the Cleveland Browns are 0-6 with nary a win in sight, but it’s instructive. In any other year under any other circumstances, Cody Kessler would be huge news in the city of Cleveland. The third round QB has come in, and despite losing every game, has a 93.8 QB rating. He’s thrown four touchdowns to just one interception. He’s completed over 65 percent of his passes. He even threw for more than 300 yards once. Normally we’d be subjected to thousands of sports talk radio phone calls proclaiming he’s either a flash in the pan or “THE ANSWER!” Thankfully, he’s not a big story, and he shouldn’t be,1 but we all know he would have been in any season over the past decade.
I’m sure some will wonder why the burden of proof for the Indians has to be a trip to the World Series. That’s certainly the way it all turned out this postseason, but I don’t think it was a necessary part of the equation for the Indians overtaking the awful Browns this fall. Even if the Indians had somehow fallen short in the ALDS or ALCS, succumbing to their pitcher injuries, they would have been a good story and one that Cleveland would have bought into to the point of rendering other stories as fodder.
I will admit that the burden of proof for the Indians might be a bit higher in some respects but the one thing I’ll always wonder is why we don’t consider time most of all. Remember that the Indians in 2016 did almost 1.6 million in ticket sales during the regular season. The Browns in 2015 did nearly 600,000 across just eight games, but it’s still just more than a third. Part of the NFL’s appeal regarding ticket sales is that there are only so many opportunities per season. If you start extrapolating that into hours every season of baseball feels like a never-ending inventory for fans and I think it’s hard to create any sense of urgency or scarcity.
It’s far beyond all the economic talk we’ve gone into over the past decade, however. It’s about quality most of all. Without indicting former teams built by former front offices, it’s most important to recognize the achievement of this moment. The Indians have built a quality team with quality players that are impossible not to believe in. Corey Kluber, Francisco Lindor, Jose Ramirez, and even a reliever, closer Cody Allen, are legitimate home-grown talents that are unique to the Tribe. It’s one of the greatest collections of players on the Indians team in my lifetime.2
All of this was bolstered by what might soon be considered the greatest trade in Cleveland Indians history when they got Andrew Miller. That kind of maneuver obviously gave the Indians their ALCS MVP, but I have no doubt that acquisition injected a belief and confidence in the other players who were waiting to see if the front office would do something to help. When you add in the intangible benefit of the front office trading for Jonathan Lucroy and being spurned, it’s like Chris Antonetti and company unintentionally imported a giant chip to implant on the shoulder of his club.
It’s isn’t that fans didn’t want to talk about the Cleveland Indians. It’s not that Cleveland isn’t a baseball town. It’s not that the Indians have to make the World Series to be relevant. It’s everything. It’s the Browns being brave enough to rebuild and completely stink in order to start over for real. It’s the Cavaliers making it safe to believe again. It’s the Indians overachieving with a bunch of guys whom you have to love because they’re truly lovable. The Cavaliers reminded us what quality was. The Cavaliers taught us that winning is possible. The Indians have reminded us of the first thing now too and holy hell if they double down on that final lesson that LeBron James and the Cavaliers taught us…
But even if they don’t, we’ll know that they gave everything they had and that they are worthy of believing in. That’s all any fan can ask for and that’s exactly what this year’s Indians team delivered.
31 Comments
The only part I disagree with is if they had fallen short in the ALDS. It seemed from my own narrow lens that it took knocking Boston on their butts (and Papi into his rocking chair) for a good portion of the lookie-loos to buy in.
Now bring on one of those big market NL clubs who bought up a ton of talent.
I will be watching the NLCS VERRRRY closely to see if those Chicago bats stay “woke” when they are back in Chicago playing in 40-50 degree weather as opposed to the 75-90 degree sunny confines of Dodger Stadium.
Kluber, Tomlin, Bauer or Merritt (depending on health). If Merritt goes, back him up with Salazar giving you a few innings. Innings 6-9, you know the drill. And repeat.
A Cavs and Indians in the title same year? Talk about spoiled!
“If you start extrapolating that into hours every season of baseball feels like a never-ending inventory for fans and I think it’s hard to create any sense of urgency or scarcity.”
I think the Indians made an attempt at this but are now kicking themselves, specifically with upper reserve (upper box?) right field corner. My entirely uninformed opinion is that the Indians considered annual attendance as a constant and tried to level out the game-to-game attendance by limiting supply. The thinking was… if we can create more sell outs on Friday and Saturday prime games by limiting seats, that will drive fans to attend more of their fixed-number-of-annual-games on weekday games. I don’t think that worked and the Tribe likely missed out on 5-10 opportunities in the regular season to sell another 6,000-9,000 tickets per game… plus another 6-8 playoff games. I don’t think the standing room up there matches the capacity of the seats that were removed.
Plenty of other seats were removed around the lower sections, but things were added in their place to improve the “experience” and secondary spending… food/drink options, social areas, general aesthetics, etc which I think have been received mostly well.
Not bashing at all, but I’d really like to have an Indians insider put some perspective on the conversations leading up to the stadium changes and the conversations after.
City of Cleveland still is home to the shortest title drought in MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL.
And dammit… I’m not ready to give that up until February!!!
Those of us that cheer for the Buckeyes might not give that up for a full calendar year (or longer).
Blue Jay bats went to sleep once they faced Indians pitching, so tough to tell.
not insider but part of what they did with those renovations was to update the ballpark w/o going the ATL route of building a new one. making the visit to the park an experience in itself.
heck, Jessica wrote about one game she went to where they were in Right Field District watching the Cavs game — some of what they did certainly worked for what they wanted and is likely well worth the few extra tickets they could have gained in the postseason (notice they ARE cramming in more seating during this run).
I am hoping for a lot of A) and a lot of B).
http://pocketnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/michael-scott-win-win-win.jpg
Not sure if this is related, but I’ve had a few friends who had standing room playoff tickets (real ones, purchased through the appropriate vendors) be asked to leave because there wasn’t enough standing room.
Leave the ballpark? There’s no way I would do that if I bought a ticket. I’d just walk around and “stand” somewhere else.
World Series SRO are going for $800+ on Stubhub right now.
This is not an attack against you, Craig, but I thoroughly detest any of the Browns versus Indians town or attendance debates. It’s so hollow.
I think people are on board with the Indians in greater numbers because…they’re winning! They’re going to the freaking WS. Who’d have thunk it? What will the long term effects be on attendance or “Indians Town” vibes? Who knows? There will probably be a bump. Will it last? I don’t know. Will they be consistent playoff contenders? Then sure.
Yeah leave the park. And they were in the same place they were the night before. They were unhappy campers.
But, that’s what they ultimately did. They found some standing room with an usher who wasn’t being a colossal “d”. Then all was right with the world.
I think the success of the Cavs and indians this year punctuates a shift away from being a football town. We may not see the effects right away, especially on WFNY where most of the commenters are “of a certain age,” but it’s already happening, I believe.
The Browns have already lost an entire generation of fans. Many of us on this site are in our 30s and 40s and grew up with Kosar and exciting Browns football. That cemented our dedication to the team. We’re like heroin junkies searching out another fix. Somebody 20 years old now has never seen winning football here. But, now, they’ve seen winning basketball and baseball.
Winning creates fans.
Regarding the lower levels, I like the updates and I think they are generally well received. I often find myself venturing to the opposite side of the stadium for a particular vendor, standing around for an inning or so, then returning to my seat. As a casual fan, my girlfriend loves the food and beer selection. As an engaged fan, I like the opportunity to change my view of the game (ohkaaayyyy… the food and beer too).
The upper level renovations in right field turned thousands of seats into glorified billboards, which I find a bit puzzling. The box office already restricts ticket sales up top until other sections are well-filled, so removing those seats seems redundant and not quickly reversible. If that was done to mash-down peak capacity and push those fans to chose other regular season games, then I think it was a failure. Also, it looks like crap.
Again, I have very little knowledge of their actual intent. For my own curiosity, I would really like to learn a bit more on that.
I had a good loathing of the Jacob’s Field ushers. I understood why they were so restrictive in the 90s during the sellout streak, but they didn’t change any of the policies for the first 5-8 years after that was over and the ballpark was empty.
Seat hopping is part of the allure of going to a mostly empty ballpark.
Fair points, but the collective mindest of the fandom in the city is a fun topic to debate. It doesn’t have to be “a battle” as much as a query into if & how the Indians can make this energy last.
Could you imagine the people you would get in those nice leather recliners behind home plate at Yankee Stadium?
Some anecdotal observations based on the trip to TOR this week:
Good News
TOR has nothing on the playoff game atmosphere. Progressive was noisier and rowdier throughout all of the games I went to, and I went to them all. I was on my feet 75% of the game at PF, and the fans were into every pitch. Toronto really rocked in Game 4, after they had taken a lead.
The atmosphere surrounding the TOR dome is kinda lame too. The bar district is a good four blocks away and the CN Tower is nothing but a Tourist trap. $35CDN to ride an elevator. Another $12 to go to the top deck. The street atmosphere at Progressive blows it away. I talked to a LOT of TOR fans that came down to CLE for the games, and every one of them had a great time, commented about the park and how fun it was even though they lost.
We don’t have a dome. Closing the roof when the weather is gorgeous to increase the crowd noise is lame. I’d rather see the city skyline and enjoy a beautiful October night or afternoon. The setting as PF just blows that dome away.
Food, beers, and fan entertainment. Again, big checkmarks on the side of the Indians. TOR does some quirky fun things between innings, but the Indians have it down. Food and beer is not even close.
Bad News
Toronto draws all year. They have playoff atmosphere every month of the season. This is not even close.
Game 3, there were maybe 50 fans in TOR not counting those directly affiliated with the team. This is no exaggeration. We saw maybe a dozen during the game, and saw more after the game behind the dugout and on the street. Conversely, TOR had thousands of fans in CLE. Granted these were weekday games, one during the afternoon. Folks have already taken off work for afternoon games and a potential WS is coming up. But still, it’s an easy 5 hour drive and really good tix were going for under $100 from Games 4&5. We met Tribe fans who flew in from NYC and drove from S Carolina.
My own personal opinion is this market is a little complacent when it comes to the Indians. I look back on the mid-90’s and part of the magic was the decades of futility in the crummiest of all baseball stadiums in the MLB. To see the best team in the MLB in a state of the art ballpark was just unbelieveable. To go from that to Wedge and Acta just killed interest. Couple that with a really bad economy that is competing for very limited sports dollars and they have had a tough road to climb. But when it’s on the line, CLE finds a way to show up, and show up big. At least at home.
Couldn’t agree more. Being a young man during the Browns run in the 80s, I was always a Browns-first guy. Can’t say that now, don’t really enjoy watching Sunday’s anymore.
This. What they did with the RF Corner bar and district seats was brilliant. Upper deck, not so much.
We’re doomed…
http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/khloe-kardashian-tristan-thompson-wedding-reality-show-engagement-116716
I don’t know about you, but I’m absolutely PARCHED.
I turned 50 this year. I went to my first Browns game when I was 6.
You can definitely count me in could care less about the Browns until they put together a superior product camp. I’ve spent a small fortune on Indians tickets this year. I wouldn’t go to a Browns game if someone handed me 50 yardline seats. They don’t deserve support from this market. Are they on the right track? I don’t really care. Win some games, maybe I’ll change my mind, maybe not.
This is me for Game 6 (in the unlikely event that we’ll need it). If they “ask” me to leave, they better be ready for me to “politely decline.”
We’re “seasoned.”
“The Indians have built a quality team with quality players that are impossible not to believe in. Corey Kluber, Francisco Lindor, Jose Ramirez, and even a reliever, closer Cody Allen, are legitimate home-grown talents that are unique to the Tribe. It’s one of the greatest collections of players on the Indians team in my lifetime.”
Can’t forget Kipnis. Dude is awesome.
Absolutely. They won the division, and it was like a “hey, not bad”, with the Browns still #1 with a bullet. They won the ALDS, and people started warming up, but not until they made the WS did the dam break.
But this article seems to miss half the problem with the attendance/popularity issues. The issue is not simply “why aren’t the Indians the talk of the town/easily selling out unless they make the World Series”, but also, why are they almost dead last in attendance when they are not only over .500, but over .500 for four straight years and cruising to a division title. I absolutely get why the Indians are not #1 in this town and selling out like they did in the 90s. I have no idea why they are drawing 10k on a lot of nights in a season like this.
And that is the real issue for the franchise going forward. Sure, they’re going to make tens of millions of dollars off this playoff run. But you can do that in any town. The long-term viability of the Indians in Cleveland comes down to all those nights that add up to 28th in attendance. If they can’t make money when they have a first place roster, then they aren’t long for this city. And sure, the TV numbers are nice, but the Indians have one of the lowest paying TV deals, it will not be a problem for them to find a matching deal in almost any other town.
If it doesn’t just take being a good team, but having every domino line up in a row like Craig describes, kind of like the mid 90s, then we do really have to question this city as a baseball town and how long it’s going to be one with a baseball franchise.
Isn’t that thing (Khloe) like 50 years old?
I’m 25 and my only memory of good football was the year Derek Anderson sold his soul to the devil and we still didn’t make the playoffs.