On the Cleveland Indians and their “stroke of genius”
February 3, 2015An open letter to Johnny Manziel
February 3, 2015It’s nearly baseball season and Will Leitch put together an interesting article at Sports on Earth talking about each MLB team’s three biggest rivals. He is requesting feedback too as opposed to trying to dictate the teams and the order of importance as rivals. I find it to be an interesting conversation for the Indians. I think it can change from time to time in baseball as well.
So this is what Will picked for the Tribe.
Cleveland Indians
1. Detroit Tigers
2. New York Yankees
3. Cincinnati RedsThe Browns have a lot more fierce rivalries than the Indians do, it seems. You can maybe make a case for the Red Sox and the White Sox here too.
I guess if I had to say it for me personally, I’d put it like this.
1. Detroit Tigers
2. Boston Red Sox
3. Chicago White Sox
I don’t feel a whole lot of extra angst or motivation in the “Battle for Ohio” or whatever. I can understand that some fans – especially those that have lived nearer Reds country – might feel a little bit of extra, but I’ve never experienced that. The Boston Red Sox is a big one for me because I lived in Boston, but the Indians have had a fair history with the Red Sox too. Whether we’re talking about the Tribe losing to Boston in the playoffs with historic Pedro heroics, or back to the Indians sweeping the Sox in 1995, it feels like there’s a bit of a living history between these two. That’s tough to do outside of the division in baseball, I think.
Anyway, this isn’t a dictatorship. Who do you think the Indians’ three biggest rivals are and why?
39 Comments
The White Sox are the biggest rival IMO and there is no 2nd one that comes close. Just some off the top of my head highlights of the rivalry and probably missing some big ones:
Frank Thomas v. Albert Belle
White Sox finishing 1 game up on us in ’94 when the strike called the season
Gene Lamont having Belle’s bat confiscated (and Grimsley stealing it back)
The infamous “white flag” trades in ’97 from Chicago giving up competing with us ending with us 1 out from a WS win.
The Indians collapse down the stretch in 2005 ending up giving Chicago a path to the playoffs and WS win.
Dominating Chicago in ’13 allowing the Indians to sneak into the playoffs.
How many of our former star players did they sign? Belle, Lofton, Vizquel, Thome, etc.
Plenty more, but those are the main ones as I type quickly.
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Detroit is gaining steam lately, but this is the first time that we have both been good at the same time.
Everyone has the Yankees as a rival especially in the AL.
The Red Sox rivalry makes some sense historically. And, with the recent history too. They should be on the list.
The Twins could make an argument, but we have really missed each other’s contention windows in the last 20 years of being grouped together.
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Did some digging, actually considered a top5 MLB rivalry by Yahoo! Sports:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-forbesrivals042809
KC Royals.
Ugh! No matter how good (or bad) we are, it’s always seems like such a struggle to beat those guys.
I’m on board with Craig. Those are the three I would have named. You reference our old players, but The D have V and Omar (coach) – the truest Indians of all. I actually used to wish the Browns and Lions were in the same division so I could go full-on hate for Detroit, back when the Pistons were great and we had LeBron 1.0.
Red Sox because after 2004, their fan base became a s* show, and 2007 still burns.
White Sox for all the reasons you mentioned, but especially for 2005. Had to watch them wipe us up and then take the Series.
1. White Sox – far and away the biggest
2. Tigers – because of recent history/proximity
3. Yankees – if I have to pick a third I guess it would be them. I think if the Twins or Royals are decent those games are more tense.
Also, they always have one player who plays out of his freaking mind against the Indians and creates so much enmity in our fan base. It was Frank Thomas, then it was Paul Konerko, and now it’s looking to be Jose Abreu. You just know that jerk is going to tattoo a ball when he faces an Indians pitcher.
This is my list too. The White Sox and Tigers are self-explanatory as our biggest division rivals over the past 2+ decades. I will always hate the Yankees more than the Red Sox, even with recent history making the Red Sox that much more obnoxious. The Yankees and their fans are always d-bags, and they will always be d-bags.
1. White Sox – I’m with bode here–this is the biggest by country mile. The mid-90s were obviously the most intense part over the last 30 years or so, but even if it hasn’t been as meaningful in the standings recently, it always feels good to beat up on them.
2. Tigers – much more intense in the last decade given their status as top of the Central food chain, but they are from that state up north, so a win is always satisfying.
3. Yankees – I can see the argument for the Red Sox, and I may hate that team more than any other in MLB these days, but they aren’t THE YANKEES. The difference for me is I can respect the Yanks for a long history of success and a sense of tradition that few teams in any sport can hope to match. Sure, they make a fun target for all that’s wrong with MLB money, but they also dominated much of the last two decades with homegrown talent as the foundation. Maybe the Tribe could too if we had money to dole out big contracts to lock young guys in, but again, that’s a MLB problem. As long as they have all those titles and records, they are always the team to gun for.
The Battle of Ohio doesn’t do much for me, though going back and forth with my old man (a lifelong Reds fan) is entertaining. Hate the Braves forever. And the Marlins even longer. But hate alone does not make a rivalry. Sure would be nice to get back to the Series and make some NL enemies, though.
I won’t argue that the Yanks bandwagon doesn’t have a significant number of douchebags. But I will say that some of my favorite baseball fans I’ve met in life are also Yankee diehards, the ones who grew up going to games with their old man, who grew up going with his old man, etc. Sure, we say, it’s easy to love a winner. But these are folks who remember the lows their team has endured as well, and they’ve rooted as hard in down times as up. They know and respect the game and its history. Several have told me that they respect and appreciate the Tribe historically and Cleveland fans who stick through, and they always encourage me to keep the faith that my team can turn it around. If I’m watching baseball, I’ll take watching with folks like that–even if I want nothing more than to beat their team–over bandwagon jumpers of any stripe.
I would pay handsomely for the opportunity to scissor kick AJ Pierzynski right in his stupid face. Least favorite pale hose player ever.
Those guys are cool. I like those guys. It’s just that they are the overwhelmed minority.
White Sox, Tigers, Royals…
Yanks and Red Sox are everyone’s rivals. If the opposing fan base doesn’t think of you as rivals, then you’re probably not. I will also take this time to advocate for realignment so we can be in a division with the Pirates. That would make for an excellent (albeit obvious) rivalry.
He has to be at the top of the list for Most Despicable White Sock. I’m trying to think if there were any other guys who were up there. Robin Ventura used to get me pretty riled up from time to time.
Friggin’ Quintana. Ugh.
Let’s not forget Ozzie Guillen. I would love to kick him but I would go lower than the face.
My Yankee hatred mellowed over the past few years as many of my favorite little league parents/granparents to talk baseball with have been Yankee fans. Big time respect to the game historically with the ones I had the pleasure of knowing.
White Sox, Tigers and Royals. They have caused plenty of problems for the Indians.
Indians are no rivals more like step brothers with each team sharing former managers and players. Tigers, White Sox and whoever else in the Central.
The Reds?? Seriously?? Nope. Tigers and Red Sox for sure. It is really hard for me to think of a third team.
Read the comments below, am very surprised to see Chisox on the list. It feels like the Steelers or Wolverines to me, it feels like a lot of people consider it a rivalry just because it used to be.
Agreed. If you want to know if you’re somebody’s rival, ask them (or in this case their fans). BoSox have much bigger fish to fry.
After Sam Wyche, Ozzie might be my most hated manager/coach.
You forgot…
http://deadspin.com/5548316/ozzie-guillen-has-no-sympathy-for-clevelanders
And this…
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-10-05/sports/0510050271_1_fans-cubs-choke
And this too…
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Guillen-scolds-Indians-fans-for-hypocritical-tre?urn=mlb-wp17347
Some history? Most definitely. Nothing in the last several years? Yeah. But that history strikes a very serious chord that still resonates with the 30+ crowd.
I don’t really see a rivalry with the Bosox at all. They knocked us out of the playoffs nearly ten years ago. And another time 20 times plus. Outside of that? What’s there other than them being a generally better (financed) team that has beaten us pretty regularly while enjoying success.
Guess I feel it’s just a lot easier to have a rivalry in division especially in MLB. You really have to have a few seasons where you and an out-of-division team are both really good and meet in the playoffs regularly.
I am over 30 and the great White Sox rivalry ended almost half my life ago.
I feel like the Red Sox because for years it felt like it was us or them for the last playoff spot plus they kept us out of the World Series in our last deep post season run.
Well, Chicago knocked us out in 2005 so it hasn’t been that long since we’ve played meaningful games. Guess I’d have to look at the standings from the last decade to see about competing with the Bosox for the Wild Card, but I don’t remember it quite like that (but my memory is pretty bad now without Google and/or Baseball Reference).
Its all in good fun, nice to talk baseball again đ
It is. I was going to add – I remember a quasi rivalry for a short time with the Mariners. Think we met in the playoffs once and had a few WC races with them as well.
I really want to have a rivalry with the Bosox. I just know from friends who are fans that when I bring that up, they smile at me like I’m the remedial kid who is proud of his B on the math test.
Well of course, they have the Yankees. Like we most recently have the Tigers
Definition of Rivals is “compete for superiority with; be or seem to be equal or comparable to”
I would like to say Det, but they have been waxing us the last few years.
I still think CWS is biggest rival. We are 50-42 against them in the last 5 years, and 133-140 in the last 15. RS is 1367 to 1345 in last 15 years. That is crazy, to be within 22 runs over 273 games.
For me, I seem to look at other teams that can squeak CLE out of wildcard spot, so I am looking at Oak, and Baltimore.
A rival is usually a team in which both teams get fired up on a different level when they play the other team. I don’t know if the tribe really has that right now.
wow, Cle had 2 of top 5?!? Anyone would put NYY and Bos as one of the top 5, and I can see LAD vs SF, and Pitts/Phiilly because of the cross state rivalries with both teams in the same league.
I don’t like alexia Rameriz for some reason. That stupid look on his face. Also AJ, Frank Thomas, and Konerko
what team would leave? Minnesota?
The Rays could be argued as at least a potential rival. They are second only to the Tribe in terms of teams I watch regularly, and even with them knocking us out of the play-in, I can’t quite hate them yet–too fun to watch most years, and no real intense/obnoxious fans to speak of and resent. But they are a candidate at least.
Yeah hard to hate the Rays. There are no obnoxious fans because there are no fans that go to games. Seems like CLE and TB trade for teams with the lowest attendence. In 2013 they were 29 and 30, but CLE drew 43K for the playoff game.
Oh man, that’s a good one.
Okay, let’s go for 2015:
(1) Robin Ventura is their manager. Who doesn’t want to punch Robin Ventura in the face? In fact, punching Robin Ventura in the face is one of the most popular pictures ever sold about MLB. Here, go buy one:
http://www.amazon.com/Nolan-Autographed-Fight-Ventura-Rangers/dp/B009DMHTV4/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1423063106&sr=8-3-fkmr1&keywords=picture+nolan+ryan+punch+robin+ventura
(2) I already mentioned the dirty Colombian Jose Guillermo Quintana, whose grandfather I believe was one of the chief villains in the true story of Scarface. Maybe not, but I cannot prove he wasn’t.
(3) Paul Konerko will be forever hated for what he did to us earlier in his career. He is somehow still there and oftentimes replaces the automatic out Adam Dunn when they face us.
(4) Oso is a monster who doesn’t even bother to hide in the closet at night. He’s right in the middle of the room and he dares you not to be afraid of him (Abreu).
(5) Chris Sale is good against everyone, but he complete mocks our lack of right-handed hitting.
(6) Who hasn’t looked up to the sky, shaken their fist, and yelled “Rick Haaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnn!!!”
(7) Speaking of their GM, Robertson, LaRoche, Melky all signed along with Zach Duke whom I believe was the villain in the Major League movie.
I’m fired up now. Where are those CWS? Let’s go beat those guys this year (on the field, not like Nolan Ryan did).
I guess. It’s not a well thought out plan. Since that sort of thing will never ever happen. I just think a CLE/PIT baseball rivalry would naturally get heated thanks to the existing regional hate. That and the fact that we’re similarly sized markets which would mean (theoretically at least) that we’d be more evenly matched more often than not.
Would there then be that guy wearing Pitts jersey to all indians home games too?