Basking in the Buckeye afterglow: While We’re Waiting…
January 14, 2015Ohio Statement
January 14, 2015With his thick Philly accent, Mike Mayock turned the Mike and Mike show into Mike and Mike and Mike. The topic of conversation was the NFL draft and how exactly NFL teams might go about analyzing Cardale Jones as a potential draft pick. The impediments are obvious. Jones has only played three college football games. Mayock had some other interesting points though, too, when the chirp of his battery-starved smoke detector wasn’t going out over the air.
Mike Mayock was on ESPN Radio and his smoke detector low battery beep was audible in the background. Man, that sound annoys me.
— Michael David Smith (@MichaelDavSmith) January 14, 2015
Mayock brought up the point that when NFL scouts start to look into a kid, it’s not always going to be favorable to his draft stock. Mayock was very plain about saying that he doesn’t know the Cardale Jones situation in particular, but generically speaking said, “there’s a reason he was the third string quarterback at Ohio State.” And Mayock isn’t wrong about any of that.
Once the NFL draft scouting process takes hold of a kid, it does get ugly at times whether it’s a leaked Wonderlic or some crime or legal issue from the past. Molehills are multiplied into mountains and sometimes it feels like NFL teams are not just doing “due diligence” but smashing a kid over the head in order to game the draft process and select him lower. College players are sometimes mere chips in this high stakes game of poker between billion dollar poker players.
In the end, Mayock is very smart about how he talks about the draft. When push came to shove and they asked him where Cardale Jones could go in the draft, Mayock didn’t give his opinion. Instead he said, “I think I’d be hard pressed to find anyone who’d say he’d go in the first 100 picks.”
What does that mean? Let’s put it perspective of the Browns. Terrance West was the 94th pick overall, selected in the third round. John Hughes was the 87th pick and Travis Benjamin was number 100 in 2012. Greg Little was 59 in 2011 and Jordan Cameron was 102. Just in terms of recent quarterback history, the Pats selected Jimmy Garoppolo number 62 in 2014. Logan Thomas from Virginia Tech was selected by Arizona at 120. And maybe I’m a bit of a homer for Cardale Jones and I’m underestimating the NFL draft process, but I can’t believe the same league that seems to look for prototypical physical attributes when it comes to quarterbacks wouldn’t find it in its best interest to take a sub-100 draft pick flyer on a kid who is 6-5 and 250 pounds with great athleticism and an arm that can “make all the throws.”
And even if Mayock is right and Cardale Jones couldn’t go in the top 100, life could be worse. If Jones was selected in the Logan Thomas spot, he’d be in line for the same four-year deal worth $2.22 million including a $432k signing bonus.
I won’t pretend to know where Jones would actually go. I also won’t pretend to know what Cardale Jones should do. As I said on the podcast with Andrew last night, I find the conversation fascinating nonetheless. What an amazing story.
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“I think I’d be hard pressed to find anyone who’d say he’d go in the first 100 picks.”
note: getting someone to say that he’d go in the first 100 picks is an entirely different thing to having someone actually take him in the first 100 picks. no one (mr. c breathes easy) is going to want to admit to having him that high, but it doesn’t mean that no one will take him that high.
strengths: size, arm strength, pocket poise, nerves
weaknesses: experience, accuracy on short passes, no timing routes?, Buckeyes dominant run game
If he would come out, then he would be coming out in an extremely weak QB class, which is to his benefit. However, he is largely a blank slate. He was incredible in his ability to calmly do his thing, which included throwing the ball really far and letting the Buckeye WRs go get the ball.
What I would worry about is that he doesn’t seem to be a decisive defense reader. There is a reason that we struggled in the red zone against Bama and the first TD pass there was a WR throwing it. Those are tough timing throws that are much shorter with less of a margin for error and Cardale has not shown he can make those throws. In time, perhaps he can. Also, when Oregon went deep zone, Cardale ran the ball. It was a smart play for the Buckeyes, but in the NFL he is going to have to find an open WR on those plays because the run lanes will not be there as often.
Love what he did, think he has many of the tools needed for the NFL, but he would be a major project for anyone that took him. But, someone would definitely take him and pretty early (my guess would be 2nd round) just based on the physical attributes and mental ability in those big games.
Seems like there’s always a team willing to take a chance on raw physical ability.
To me a huge plus for him is not just his arm strength but his body strength, appearing similar to Roethlisberger. This physical toolkit and playmaking ability is not all that common. Never thought I would say this before Monday, but in a draft where the Browns have 2 first rounders, I would maybe risk a second rounder on him.
Obviously, ability to learn to read a complex defense is a complete unknown. As is whether he will be sufficiently responsible and serious when no longer under the influence of his charismatic college coach and after receiving NFL money. But this is what you risk when you’re desperately mining for a QB.
Yeah I’d be mildly shocked if he didn’t go in the first 100 picks, and assume he has some issues that haven’t come to the fore if that were the case. Every QB is just a lottery ticket with different odds and payouts and timelines attached. Jones would be a very high risk, sky high reward ticket. You do have to count at least a year off he contract, but there’s enough there that teams able to wait on him would be lining up towards the end of the 1st.
“Thick Philly Accent”? Is that what we call his whiny lisp now? How do you get on TV or the radio with a voice that bad? smh
I’m with Harv, but I think 3rd rounder would be the highest I would go. I’m starting to daydream about the Browns re-signing Hoyer for 2 (maybe 3) years, drafting Jones, making JFF disappear, and let Hoyer enjoy 2-3 seasons of competing for the playoffs with his childhood favorite team while teaching Jones how to be a pro. Bring back Conner to backup Hoyer and Jones would be your #3.
I love Jones, and I’m not even an OSU guy. Has all the physical tools you could want, ice water in veins, and appears to be coachable and maturing. I just think he’s coming out. Bad QB class, just had a baby, just won a Nat’l Championship, and might not even start next year. If you’re going to sit & learn, why not get paid to do it full time?
The cherry on top would be for the coaching staff to be around for 3-4 years to allow this to happen.
Jason Campbell in 2013 had a higher QBrating than Hoyer ended with in 2014.
Guess it would depend on how well he performed at his pro day. As far as the purely physical, the kid seems to have that covered. Seems like “growing up” is an issue though. Still, I’d rather have a 6’5 Big Ben type with maturity issues over the 5’11 Zac Morris type we have now. But if he really knocked it out…. How could you not consider using a first rounder on a player with those talents?
As someone who didn’t watch any CFB, what kind of passes did he make? How accurate was he?
The idea of Brian Hoyer is much better than the reality.
I do not envy Cardale for the decision that he has to make today, even if it is the decision between a potential gold-plated future or a platinum-plated future.
True dat. Exactly a year ago was wondering whether Norv stumbled upon something just as it was ready to bloom. Now I’m pondering the value of hothouse flowers, these QBs that, after there’s film on them, can succeed but only in ideal conditions.
He has a cannon arm, but he still tended to underthrow his long passes, but in spots where the WR could make a play. The great thing was that the DBs were so busy trying to keep up with speedy WRs that it gave an advantage to the Buckeyes to come back to the ball (see: pretty much any Devin Smith TD or the off-the-back catch on Monday).
He did have 1 pass (I think to Marshall?) where he split a laser 20yds downfield between 3 Oregon Ducks in zone right into the WRs gut. It was a beautiful play, but, again, a WR stationary sitting in a zone rather than a timing route.
His short passes tend to be thrown too hard “DA-style” with little to no touch on them. Herman also took out all the slant and out timing routes that Barrett was using (I assume to play to Cardale’s strengths).
We also didn’t utilize any “touch” passes in the red zone, which was strange. With Spence and D.Smith, we have guys that can go up and get the ball, so back corner fades should have been there (and then that would open middle slants). But, we stayed away from those routes.
If nothing was open, then he would look to run. It was sort of an in-between on a head-down run and keeping aware of WRs getting open while he went. His pocket awareness of the pass rush was sublime as was his ability to shed or elude the rusher.
Overall, he was exactly what the Buckeyes needed. A guy who could rifle it downfield and force the safeties to stay deep. And, when the defense left 7-8 in coverage, he would tuck and run. That allowed the run game to flourish. However, there are way, way more questions about what types of throws he is capable of making and defenses he is capable of reading. In a controlled setting of a pro-day, he is going to look amazing (see: JaMarcus Russell), but there will be legitimate concerns about if he can transition those skills to actual gamedays.
Now that’s a simile!
Nothing at the combine or his pro day would show if he would be able to go through his read progressions with a NFL defense bearing down on him. In college, you can get away with locking on one WR. Mel Kiper said he had him as a 2nd round pick this year and top 10 or top 5 if he returned to college and played.
Great assessment, though I would quibble a bit that Cardale was better at hitting the deep passes than either of his predecessors – I didn’t see too much of an issue with underthrows (though the pass to Smith on Monday should have been a TD – I just assume that he thought he was going to overthrow it and therefore took some mustard off of it). I think he’s got more than enough arm for the deep ball.
As for accuracy, I agree. There’s just not enough to go on. It was clear from the last 3 games that he was coached not to force anything. Thus, he only took shots that were wide open (same could be said for Mariota, though, in my opinion). This, I think, is the greatest detractor to his draft stock. I don’t think anyone knows if he’s got the ability to thread the NFL needles.
there is no doubt he has the arm for the deep throws, he just tends to not lead the WR, but have him come back to it a bit (D.Smith TD v. Bama the best example after the DB fell down, he had to stop to get the ball, then go into the endzone). the ball gets there quickly though, which helps greatly and, obviously, they were working in all 3 games.
It’s funny, I think Cleveland might be the only place that Jones can succeed if he’s drafted right now – and that’s only because he’ll be in close proximity to both Urban Meyer and Ted Ginn to maybe help keep him mentally and emotionally motivated. Otherwise, I’m very afraid that we’re looking at Jamarcus Russell v.2.0. Not saying I want the Browns to take him; but I guess I could live with your scenario (but can’t we maybe switch out Hoyer with, say, Cutler – talking lesser of two evils, here?).
Right. I think that has to do with him consciously taking some groceries out of his throw, not really trusting either his control or his receivers – which is odd, because I think Smith can pretty much get under anything thrown out there.
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140601213805/disneycreate/images/e/ef/Fair_enough_gif.gif
It’s really hard to tell what’s a true Philly Accent if the words spoken do not include expletives and/or are not accompanied by offensive gestures.
http://collegecandy.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/always-sunny-gif-charlie-is-getting-black-out-drunk.gif
Is that the episode where the gang tries out for the Eagles? Love it.
[And boy, something about that gif is giving me vertigo.]
Didn’t the Bears just choose Cutler over Trestman? I think he’s there for the long-haul.
I get it, really I do. I was ready to move on to JFF, assuming things couldn’t get worse (woops). Hoyer is 10-6 as a starter in Cleveland. He knows the team, and the team respects and plays hard for him – the effort level difference was noticable with JFF. He also puts his work in and this was his first year back from an ACL. This was also his first year of being a starter. He’d be a great role model for Jones.
Probably the biggest thing that made it possible for me to imagine this scenario – out of who is availble, who is a better fit? I’m all ears. Maybe Jake Locker or Ryan Mallett might be better than I am thinking – especially in terms of leading a team. The only real advantage they seem to have right now is that they are a bit of an unknown to us.
I don’t think Hoyer is the sexy choice, or even a really good choice. From what I see available, he might be the best we got – especially if we are developing a raw QB for the future.
the QB options are definitely underwhelming to the point that it looks like Sam Bradford (assuming he is cut or traded as most suspect) could be the best guy available (depending on thoughts and availability of Cutler).
it is weak and the draft class isn’t exactly full of great prospects either.
I have seen enough to know that re-signing Brian Hoyer is just saying we don’t have a NFL starter though. At least Locker (health) and other guys have a shot at being more than they are. Hoyer is maxed out, unless we can get a QB coach to get him to fix his mechanics (my opinion).
Cardale Jones seems like he would get drafted by Steelers because 1) They always draft Ohio State players and 2) He would be a prototypical QB to groom for a few years behind Roethlisberger for an eventual starting job down the line.
Here’s hoping he can be a project QB for the Browns if he decides to come out this year. The kid shouldn’t have any expectation of starting anytime soon.
I think that he has one of the better arms I have seen in a while and the instincts that can not be taught. He has just as much of a chance to succeed in the NFL as every other QB being considered, as no one really knows until the bullets start flying in the big boy league games.