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December 17, 2014The Cavs Change Coaches…Again — WFNY’s Top 10 Cleveland Sports Stories of 2014: No. 8
December 17, 2014Long-time quarterback Bernie Kosar lambasted the Cleveland Browns — across multiple ownerships and management teams — during an interview Mike Trivisonno on WTAM this week. Now, Tim Couch is in on the team as well, preaching continuity and sticking up for Brian Hoyer courtesy of Pat McManamon at ESPN.
“I thought everything he said was right,” Couch said. “It’s been a long 15 years of watching the same thing repeat itself over and over. The biggest that frustrates me is the lack of commitment and loyalty to let a coach see it out and a quarterback play it out.”
Couch likes both quarterbacks on the team, roots for the Browns and speaks as an interested observer who has been through it.
It echoes some conversations I’ve had recently with a friend of mine. This friend suggested to me — and I started to agree with him by the end of the conversation — that the Browns should honestly consider re-signing Brian Hoyer and naming him opening day starter. The idea being, that even as we know a whole lot about what Brian Hoyer and what he isn’t, at least it’s something that the coaching staff and teammates know. Even if a guy’s ceiling is lower than what you definitely want in the long-term, you should be able to build something worthwhile even easier than trying to build something over your head with unknown factors.
There are hundreds of cliches that can be tossed out to either support or deny the idea of continuity with a guy like Brian Hoyer. And all that assumes you can even get him to agree to come back with Johnny Manziel on the roster. But it’s interesting the one thing we haven’t seen the Browns try with any consistency is consistency. Continuity at the quarterback position is abandoned the minute a guy plays in any way hat gives anyone doubts that he might be good enough to win a Super Bowl. Never mind that the team around him isn’t showing that either.
As the Browns continually change management and leadership, the new guys frequently get a pass as not having been the guys who committed the previous sins. That makes sense, but then they all seem to go in and commit the same sins. One thing that Bernie Kosar and Tim Couch are 100% right about is that it somehow needs to stop. This team can’t devolve into chaos every time a season ends on any kind of down note. It cost Browns fans a coaching staff last year and bunches of quarterbacks who might have been able to become something had they been nurtured differently as part of a team concept with real continuity as opposed to lip service.
36 Comments
We can’t ignore the fact that Hoyer WAS given a chance and he flamed out. He took us from a 6-3 team to a 7-6 team, and he was horrible during that stretch. Our playoff hopes got dimmer with each start. The terrible loss to the Colts was the last straw. Pettine couldn’t just stand there and let this go on.
Now if Manziel goes through a similar stretch, then maybe we should revisit Hoyer. But Manziel has had only one start. At the very least, we should give him the same opportunity that Hoyer had before we say he’s not the guy.
And I don’t see what the front office had to do with any of this. All this turmoil was a product of what happened on the field, not in the front office.
of course, with two number one picks next year, the team may be drafting a QB again. A nice piece written by Craig (or anyone else at WFNY) on this off-season’s free agent QBs would be a nice read, especially since as usual we will not be watching playoff football.
So since what Kosar says is by definition gospel – “he has more NFL knowledge in his pinky than anyone now in Berea,” confidently asserts every other talk show caller – Farmer and Haslam are clearly hopeless. They are simultaneously cause and effect of everything horrible before they arrived and everything since the Browns were 7-4 just this season. They have insufficient laser-like focus and and no knowledge of what “It Takes.”
Bernie knows all this, not because he knows what’s going on in that building but because he’s Bernie. Not because the objects of his fury happen to be the two guys who haven’t consulted him and didn’t insist he keep the one gig that brought him into the complex after Haslam bought the team. And now Couch – who lives … where? – knows what’s going on now, too. Bernie’s illogical and self-entitled rant, and the way fans frustrated by the last month of bad games blindly chime in, is an embarrassment. We’re supposed to be smart football fans? This should make Josh Cribbs’s “pay the man” syncophants blush.
Craig, ask your friend who thinks it wise to sign and name Hoyer next year’s starter (and pay him starter guaranteed money) whether Hoyer’s skill level should be considered along with stability. I mean, what the hell were the Steelers thinking when they drafted Roethlisberger? Kordell Stewart did some things.
Has a worse QB ever received more support non-fan support than Hoyer?
The comments from Bernie, Tim, and Craig’s friends would never have happened if Johnny played well. I find that interesting.
I go back to the quote Pettine had in Hard Knocks that spurred my respect for him as a coach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq15MEM76Mw
“Everybody asks ‘How do you get guys to play so hard? How do you get guys who know what they’re doing? How do you do that?’ It’s easy. We find them, and we cut the rest of them.”
Pettine is still this guy. Does anyone honestly think Johnny Manziel’s obvious and apparent lack of preparation earned him a star on the board for good effort from our head coach? My bet is he lit him up. Good. Work harder oh gloried swan rider.
I’ve seen enough of Brian to know he’s the type that has no business starting for a good team. Period, end of discussion. No amount of patience changes that for a 29-year-old QB. His ceiling is now, or even before he tore his ACL. Manziel’s… only time and a lot of hard work will truly tell. If he doesn’t work hard, Manziel is probably all too aware that Pettine is happy to save him a seat on the bus. Let’s give the kid a couple of years and see if he can rise to his own hype. If not, that’s two years you built the rest of the team to serve the next man up.
Offseason Free Agent QBs are the WFNY special:
Locker and Mallet
No, seriously, add in Hoyer and those are the 3 best guys available.
Does continuity lead to success or success lead to continuity?
For the first nine games of this season(being generous but still), Hoyer was an acceptable starter. He was not great, but he was an acceptable caretaker for the team who had glimpses of being an average NFL starter.
Then, those last 4 games happened. It was such a precipitous and sudden fall that I can see those that want to strain to grasp onto those first 9 weeks (and 2 games last year). We have had precious few stretches of QB play that didn’t look like they were the guys costing us games.
However, those 4 games did happen and there was absolutely no sign that he was coming out of it. I was done a week earlier than most, but there were precious few that weren’t done with Hoyer after the Indy game. He lost the job despite coach Pettine desperately trying to let him keep it.
So, I find it pretty crazy that Kosar, Couch, and the rest would throw fuel on the fire that disparages the guy who was trying to do what they are suggesting (keep the veteran starter the starter).
Actually, the consistent move now would be to leave Manziel in for the rest of this season AND 2015. Frankly, take away Winston (whom I wouldn’t touch with a 39-1/2-foot pole because he makes Manziel’s off-the-field adventures look like a religious pilgrimage) and there are no QBs in this class that are worth drafting – or even better than Manziel. Let’s see if the Cincy humiliation spurred something in Manziel to apply himself …
Bernie has a point if he was referring to any team before this year. For once it looks good. Also I’ve seen enough of Hoyer.
You don’t waste more picks certainly not on another first round qb I’m sorry. Enough is enough. Besides this there isn’t a QB worthy of one let alone two first round picks in next years draft and I’m including Mariota. Sure up the other areas of the team like DL, LB, RT, WR first.
Ride out next year with Manziel and use draft/free agency to address the multitude of other needs. They’ll need to add a backup so let that be the fun with the QB position.
I think we should lunchpail our quarterback just like one’a the guys. Hometown. Grit.
You seem to forget how dreamy Brady Quinn is
I just hope this launches a string of 20 more statements by former Browns QBs, ’cause, gosh, their opinions matter.
(In all seriousness, if true, it’s pretty cool to hear that Couch is a Browns fan. Nobody got a worse deal in the last 15 years than that guy.)
Trent Dilfer. From Trent Dilfer.
I’ll wait to comment until I hear what Spergon has to say.
Gradkowski’s the final word, as far as I’m concerned.
Tough call. There’s no question the root of the problem in this organization is consistency. And no matter how poor Hoyer was playing it was obvious that once we made a change at the position the entire team fell apart. It’s surprising but it shouldn’t be. Football is the ultimate team sport. Each unit effects the other and every individual has to play together to form one body. The QB is the head of that body. Remove the head and it falls apart.
A good example to follow is Cincy. The were the Bungles for so many years but they finally made a commitment and stuck to it. They didn’t panic and clean house whenever adversity hit. Look at Andy Dalton. Yea he’s not great and sometimes pretty bad but they haven’t wavered with their commitment and what’s the result? Another AFC North crown; the best division in football. Is that their 3rd in a row? Every QB is going to be inconsistent. Luck and Manning have been playing pretty bad the past couple of weeks.
I was on board with finally going with Manziel last week but in hindsight it was so obviously the wrong decision. Which I think is fair to now criticize Pettine on. Media pressure or not Pettine’s job is to do what’s best for the team and obviously Manziel is not ready to compete in this league. The coaches knew what they had in him, or they should have. We didn’t, so we thought it was an easy decision via Hoyers poor play.
I wouldn’t be opposed to signing Hoyer,continue to improve our team around him and commit to consistency.
Hoyer also had more injuries to his line than he should have and browns back up plsyres didn’t get the job done. don’t forget that. Manziel showed nothing, exxept the ball when he handed off, not once did he hide or even attempt to hide, at leasy hoyer hides the ball on the rollout
I expect to get very little reaction from the front office on these unsolicited comments. That just reinforces to me that they’re not the same old front office…
So December rolls around and the local media just grabs the old “Browns are dysfunctional” story that they’ve been running for the last 15 years, changes the names, and runs with it? Without looking at the standings, the new ownership, the new coach, the careful decision making being made, etc. etc. etc.?
you are selfish Denny. right now, Brady gets to do many different games for different teams allowing the entire NFL community to share the Brady Quinn dreaminess. one city cannot contain Dr. Quinn, Medicine Announcer
Alex Mack is a devastating injury, sure. But, the other 4 OL spots have remained healthy.
I don’t really count any other center that has gotten hurt because it’s been terrible there no matter who has been in that spot since Mack.
yeah, the thing about Hoyer is that we know how hard he works (as reported from the ACL recovery), so we know he is getting everything he possibly can from his skillset now. that doesn’t leave much of a ceiling.
Woah there. I want to see what Ken Dorsey has to say about the matter. Our local media can (and of course will) ask him this week (he’s Derek Anderson’s QB coach because, of course he is).
I don’t think Cinci can win with Dalton at QB. And, I don’t think that they believe they can either. They just haven’t gotten into a position where they believed they could draft someone to replace him yet. His contract is setup smartly for a team that doesn’t fully trust their QB though.
Also, not so sure on Manziel. But, I am sure on Hoyer (at this ponit) and if he comes back, then it’s in a backup role.
they got their outlook reminder. cannot ignore those.
This Hoyer support is really just transmogrified Manziel hate.
I don’t watch ESPN or college football and I live in Texas.
Until Sunday, I did not appreciate how much people hate Manziel. Real hate – like, “bask in his suffering and failure”. “Hurry up and die” hate. Otherwise rational friends, sports fans who understand run-of-the-mill sports hate, were frothing at the mouth the last two weeks. They want to see him fail and they want to see him benched, regardless of who he’s sitting behind.
Oh, and I think there’s a lot of bitter, old guy resentment for a rich, good looking cocky player. Especially since we’re talking about Kosar, Triv, and Couch.
The old ownership would find them an office in Berea. Take our money!
GAVIN FLOYD! (QB in the NFL is a step down pay-wise for Gavin freaking Floyd. HOW IN THE F*&! IS THAT POSSIBLE?)
162 games vs. 16
25 man roster vs. 53 player roster
Brian Hoyer is going to have a hard time getting a deal to be starting QB anywhere in the league, including the Jets. I don’t want the Browns to bring back a player with that pedigree. Better they move on.
Call me crazy but I want the Funchess kid from Michigan.
The “Dismiss All” function has been de-programed. Damn North Koreans