Randy Lerner, The Browns and the New Business as Usual
February 2, 2012NBA News: Miami Heat Take Shot at Cavs and Raptors
February 2, 2012One hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the thing to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”- Aesop’s Fable The Fox and the Grapes
All Urban Meyer has done since agreeing to become Ohio State’s head coach is recruit. Whether assistant coaches or players, Meyer hit the ground running and never looked back. Not surprisingly, the coaches and schools that Meyer lured those recruits away from aren’t pleased with him. Some just happen to be more vocal about it–
The Wisconsin head coach was asked Wednesday if he thought Meyer would change recruiting in the Big Ten and Bielema offered up a lot more than a simple answer.
“I hope it doesn’t change. I think the potential for change is there,” Bielema said. “There are a few things that happened early on that I made people aware of that I didn’t want to see in this league, that I had seen take place in other leagues. Other recruiting tactics, other recruiting practices that are illegal.
“I was very up front and was very pointed to the fact, actually reached out to Coach Meyer and shared my thoughts and concerns with him. The situation got rectified.”
Obviously avoiding specifics, Bielema clearly isn’t 100 percent happy with Meyer’s tactics at Ohio State, where he put together a top five recruiting class in just a couple of months.
What tactics exactly are we talking about? Talking with a player who had verbally committed somewhere but still had an interest in Ohio State? Something more?
With all of the eyes on Ohio State, and their probationary status why in the world would Bielema squash an “illegal” violation? Doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Rob Oller had a conversation with Gerry DiNardo, former Indiana coach and now Big Ten Network analyst that was interesting–
“If Mark and Jim had a gentleman’s agreement then I have no problem with that,” DiNardo said, referring to Narduzzi’s comments that MSU coach Mark Dantonio and former OSU coach Jim Tressel agreed not to contact each other’s recruits once the players had committed verbally.
But to insist that such an agreement should occur across the conference is unrealistic, DiNardo added.
“My first year in the Big Ten (at Indiana), some coaches said, ‘Hey, by the way, for you new guys, we’ve all agreed not to call prospects in May.’ I’m at Indiana, and I’m not making a phone call to recruits in May? Just because it came down to Lloyd Carr and John Cooper did not want to make phone calls in May? The heck with that. I said, “I have enough bosses on campus, I don’t need 10 more.’ ”
I doubt that any such agreement existed between Tressel and Bielema, and certainly not between Tressel and Carr or Rodriguez.
Perhaps, aside from losing Dodson to the Buckeyes, coach Bielema is realizing that the recruiting game in the Big Ten just got a bit tougher. I don’t know exactly what Urban Meyer says or doesn’t say that makes a difference in recruiting. I do know that he has been effective wherever he has been. I also know that for Ohio State fans, any illusion of moral high ground at Ohio State should be shattered by now.
That isn’t to say the Buckeyes shouldn’t strive for things to be done the right way. They need to report and police themselves more strictly than ever before. As a fan though, you are fooling yourself if you think college football, even at your beloved Ohio State doesn’t hide in the gray areas of right and wrong.
So the Buckeyes now have a fantastic recruiter in Urban Meyer. The truth is, no matter how great a class is ranked on paper, without instruction, motivation and preparation they will not rise above mediocrity. The proof will be in the product on the field.
[Related: Urban Meyer Lands the #3 Recruiting Class in the Country]
40 Comments
let’s also realize that when alot of these guys committed verbally (like Dodson last June) OSU was on ESPN 24/7 for all the wrong reasons.
i think i have read that many big10 coaches had a gentlemen’s agreement to not contact verbally committed recruits (but they could accept calls). not sure which coaches had which agreements or why they would think a new coach would automatically observe them though.
Am not too thrilled about the “recruiting practices that are illegal”. If a player decides that he will have a better opportunity at another place, I don’t see why the coaches are publically annoucing their negative feelings. I don’t remember OSU coaches complaining (publically) about Kalis going to michigan.
Bielema, Dantonio and Narduzzi can say whatever they want. Smells like fear to me. Now they have to step up their efforts. Their jobs are now that much more difficult.
As for the moral high ground and operating in gray areas… I for one realized a long time ago the amateur sport of college football is flat out big business. And business is cutthroat and merciless. Rules are bent, twisted and massaged all day every day just to survive. It’s the real world and is what it is.
Maybe is because I’m hanging around in SEC country but I’m shocked that coaches would even consider a gentleman’s agreement to not contact verbally committed recruits. Seems crazy. Even if such an agreement did exist with in the Big 10, other conferences would happily call verbally committed Big 10 recruits. The SEC would love it if the Big 10 did that.
urban mayer’s best recruiting tools are:
* two national championships
* two SEC champs
* umpteen coach of the year awards (MAC, MtnWest, SEC, national)
* 7-1 bowl record and
* who knows how many florida players in the nfl.
it could be these high school kids just want to play for the best college coach of this generation and are even willing to put up with cold-ish columbus weather to do so.
Deal with it, Bielema.
The title definitely needs to be changed from ‘prowess’ to ‘practices’. Look, we all have no idea what exactly Meyer was doing, but I feel highly confident that it’s not going to go over well in Big Ten country. Same thing happened when Rodriguez came to Michigan – look for the quote from Danny Hope on Rodriguez’s recruiting. The fact of the matter is that the Big Ten has been, and always will be, the Old Boys Club, who have their own way of doing things .
Look at how Big Ten coaches responded to Hoke’s recruitment process. By all accounts, he did just as well as Meyer, but there hasn’t even been a chirp. Meyer, who has always tightroped the line between right and wrong when it comes to recruiting, is willing to go to unsavory depths in this field. This SEC-style approach is explicitly banned, so he’s allowed to, but he’s also allowed to be criticized by his peers.
And let’s not pretend we’ve forgotten that Bielema was quick to condemn Tressel for his inappropriate behavior. I’ll take his willingness to be an on-the-record straight-shooter any day.
Rick: I’m not sure what you mean by this:
“I also know that for Ohio State fans, any illusion of moral high ground at Ohio State should be shattered by now.”
If you mean that illusions of moral high ground are shattered because of Jim Tressel’s actions last year, okay, I guess I’m with you. Sort of. I’ve decided that I’m going to take Coach Meyer for what he is* – a highly successful, probably egomaniacal, yet likely a generally good guy, though not someone I would grant guardianship to my kids, football coach – and enjoy it while it lasts. I’m not sure, however, that Jim Tressel shattered any of Urban Meyer’s moral high ground – and there is no evidence that Meyer has done anything remotely “immoral” (in the football recruiting sense, not in the personal ethics of morality sense).
Therefore, if you mean that illusions of moral high ground are shattered because of something that the inferiority-complexed coach from Wisconsin said (which appears to be the implication from the rest of the article), well, then, it won’t come to blows, but I bid you good day, Sir. As you said, his comments smack of sour grapes and all (though, to pick literary nits, I’m not sure the fable exactly works in this instance).
[* I obviously have no idea what he really is.]
Yeah, that’s what I think. It seems like Coach Bielema is ticked that Meyer brought his resume to the table. I guess he should have left that in Florida or something.
And cold-ish Columbus certainly beats bona fide cold Madison!
Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me
I do not even agree with coming down from my moral high ground because of Tressel’s actions. If I did how would I look down on everyone?
There wasn’t a chirp about Hoke because he only went after OSU’s recruits and OSU doesn’t cry about this silly stuff. It’s recruiting. ANY prospect is fair game until they either enroll early or they sign their LOI. Until then, go after them. Hoke stole Kalis from OSU, and he was recruiting Dunn until the day he enrolled. It’s just that OSU accepts this as big boy recruiting.
While I don’t dispute that it’s possible, if not probable, that Meyer is toeing the recruiting line, it’d be naive to suggest that Bielema’s statements were purely altruistic.
I think it’s more fear than anything else. Can you believe Big Ten coaches actually used to agree to take a month off from calling recruits???? How stupid is that?? So yeah, guess what, if you want to keep up with OSU and UM, you’re going to have to recruit like Meyer and Hoke. Sorry ’bout it.
Sorta, but not really. [Adjusts tape on his nerd glasses.] Classic sour grapes would be Bielema saying, “That Dodson kid is fat, slow, lazy, and can’t play. He wouldn’t have made a good Badger football player, anyway.”
For example, see what all of us Buckeyes fans said about Kalis when he chose Michigan (“not Buckeye material,” “don’t want a kid that doesn’t want to play here,” etc.). We’ve frankly got the sour grapes routine down.
Sure, but it’s not like he’s a disinterested third party with reliable credibility. He might shoot straight, but he might also not see the targets very well (or pick them very well, for that matter, and his ammo may be faulty, and . . . brain going crazy with shooting counter-analogies).
[Also, well-executed practices generally results in prowess. I think they’re one in the same.]
Apparently, that month was when the SEC coaches called all of the “fast” kids in Big Ten country.
/SEC Speed’d
Apparently, you would do it like this:
https://waitingfornextyear.com/2012/02/nba-news-miami-heat-take-shot-at-cavs-and-raptors/
I think things happen for a reason.Jim Tressel really set the table nicely for urban meyer to take it to the next level. If I were a coach in the big 10 the worst thing that could of happened is Ohio State’s scandal because Urban Meyer is going to dominate. With him bringing in a great offense and being able to attract quarterbacks now we might win 5 national titles in the next 10 years. They should be mad because they know what’s coming.
Meyer led Utah was also the first nonAQ team to make (and win) a BCS game.
Meyer led Utah was also the first nonAQ team to make (and win) a BCS game.
I think everyone found out quickly that Meyer does not mess around with recruiting and players buy into him. Now they are just whining about it.
I think everyone found out quickly that Meyer does not mess around with recruiting and players buy into him. Now they are just whining about it.
we do, but Les Miles still has us beat there:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7533344/les-miles-lsu-tigers-questions-gunner-kiel-ability-lead
“There was a gentleman from Indiana that thought about coming to the Bayou state,” Miles said. “He did not necessarily have the chest and the ability to lead a program, so you know,”
we do, but Les Miles still has us beat there:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7533344/les-miles-lsu-tigers-questions-gunner-kiel-ability-lead
“There was a gentleman from Indiana that thought about coming to the Bayou state,” Miles said. “He did not necessarily have the chest and the ability to lead a program, so you know,”
Wow. Can’t believe he said that. Disgusting. Why would any kid want to play for someone who says something like that? Mind: officially boggled.
Wow. Can’t believe he said that. Disgusting. Why would any kid want to play for someone who says something like that? Mind: officially boggled.
Yeah, I really don’t think we need to be jumping off of any moral high ground here. I still maintain that no one from tOSU did anything remotely amoral in this whole fiasco. There is nothing amoral about doing whatever you want with your own personal property and there is nothing amoral about not following arbitrary, hollow rules.
Man the high ground Bucks!
“any illusion of moral high ground at Ohio State should be shattered by now.” Really? We’re talking about landing football recruits, not sleeping with someone’s wife. Too much.
I was referring to Tressel’s actions, along with the attitudes and actions of some of the players yes.
It seems not too long ago that OSU fans would use the excuse of a ‘clean program’ for shortfalls against teams like LSU and Florida. That excuse doesn’t fly anymore (if it ever did).
Absolutely. I am so tired of hearing about honesty, integrity, and the “moral high ground” in big time college football. That ship sailed long, long ago. D-I college football is about winning. Period. Right or wrong, that’s the way it is. We can either hire the very best coach and recruit with the big boys…or we can hire someone who claims to be full of integrity and morals and worry about hurting other coaches’ feelings on the recruiting trail. Personally, I want to win. So I will take the former.
There are lots of places in my life that honesty, integrity, and morals matter to me. College football is no longer one of them. If we’re going to beat the SEC, we need to recruit like the SEC.
5 titles in 10 years? I didn’t realize Urban Meyer turned the OSU football program into a dynasty overnight. Highly unlikely he is at OSU for 10 years anyways. Lets let the kids/staff get on the field prior to predicting national championships.
so want to make a Syracuse basketball joke here but am holding back.
That’s an easy judgment to pass, and I guess I somewhat disagree. One incident – and let’s be clear, there was only one incident that caused all of the issues – does not a dirty program make. I’ve never personally thought that OSU held any “moral high ground” – at least not to the extent that other schools (like Penn State) did – but I still would maintain that OSU’s program was at least “as clean as” any other program. And with respect to the LSUs/USCs/etc (never thought Florida was dirty) of the NCAA world, I would still unhesitatingly stack OSU up against them in terms of “cleanliness,” even with the Tressel troubles. I’m just not buying into the trendy self-flagellation and sword-falling of some OSU circles (which frankly smacks a bit of the reverse “moral high grounding.”) I continue to be far more proud of the OSU program and Tressel’s leadership thereof than I will ever be ashamed – and have heard no arguments of “immorality” that changes that perception. The man made one serious mistake, and in my opinion continues to pay a price far in excess of the actual cost.
But, I’m admittedly an alumnus homer (but a reasonable alumnus homer, I think).
Ha! Says the Buckeyes fan. Flashback um, I dunno, like a year and half ago. I’d love to hear you say that when Tressel was a saint.
I had felt this way to a lesser degree for a long time before the whole “Tressel mess” broke out. That whole debacle only solidified my feelings.
whaaaaaaaat? There was plenty of whining on Bucknuts and Eleven Warriors, as well as people on message board (
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/buckshot/2012/01/kyle-kalis-not-so-respectful) spewing vile hatred laced epithets towards a 17 year old high school student. It was digusting how some Buckeye fans reacted.
There was plenty of chirping. The high ground is definitely not the domain of the Buckeyes
I know this sounds crazy but I actually believe this. We might not win all 5 but I think it is very possible for Ohio state to be playing for this many national titles. Jim Tressel was extremely close to creating a dynasty(Bolliman stinks) and Urban Meyer is going to take this program to a ridiculously good level. Mike Vrabel was just named recruiter of the year in big ten and he is the newest coach. You don’t see this dynasty already. Don’t feel too bad Bret Bielema we gave you a 1 year season to do something. Now he will have to suffer for 10 more. How is urban meyer going to go anywhere too. He will easily be here in 10 years if his health permits him too. He will set himself up to be one of the great osu coaches of all time which is what he has wanted to do this whole time.
And while he didn’t recruit the player, that Utah team did send his quarterback Alex Smith to the #1 pick in the NFL draft.
The anger was directed at Kalis, not Hoke. And nobody is defending the way internet tough guys act toward high school kids. It’s embarassing to themselves and the schools they are supposedly “fans” of. But that’s an entirely different debate than what we’re having here. OSU’s administrators and the fans didn’t cry about Hoke and call him unethical for going after Kalis.