NCAA Completes Ohio State Investigation, OSU Imposes More Sanctions
November 10, 2011Nice Story or Nightmare? – Eric Hagg Could Debut as Starter Sunday
November 11, 2011While We’re Waiting serves as the early morning gathering of WFNY-esque information for your viewing pleasure. Have something you think we should see? Send it to our tips email at tips@waitingfornextyear.com.
Could the Browns trade for the right to choose Andrew Luck? “The Browns have aces in their pockets, though, no matter who’s ahead of them. If any team but Indianapolis earns the first pick, the Browns could offer their first-round pick, Atlanta’s (acquired in April) and next season’s No. 1 to move up to get Luck. Is it a king’s ransom? Of course.
Would a team do it? NFL teams always talk themselves into and out of things at draft time. A team might be enticed to build with three picks rather than Luck. In which case, the Browns should jump at the chance.” [McManamon/FSO]
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Interesting response from a Buckeye fan to Penn State- “This is what I want to say to you. You are not Joe Paterno. You are not Tim Curley. You are not Gary Schultz. You are not Graham Spanier, and you are sure as hell not Jerry Sandusky. Their alleged sins are not your own. They may be the most recognizable faces of your beloved program, but they are not Penn State. They are not a 156 year old center of higher learning. They are not a century of football tradition. Their flaws cannot eclipse the innumerable scientific, artistic, and humanitarian contributions your university, and its 44,000 students and 570,000 living alumni have made and will continue to make to the world at large. The spirit of a program, of a university, and of a state is so much bigger than any one person.” [The School Philly]
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Minor league profile of Chad Huffman- “Cleveland Indians outfielder and first baseman Chad Huffman is one of those players looking to finish strong and get the bad taste out of his mouth for good from a very disappointing 2011 season. Huffman, 26, was picked up off of waivers a year ago in September from the NY Yankees and came into this season with a belief that he could help the big league team in Cleveland as a right-handed hitting outfielder. But the promise of a new team and season quickly evaporated after he was removed from the 40-man roster over the course of the season and struggled to hit just .246 with 13 HR, 58 RBI and a .766 OPS In 124 games for Triple-A Columbus.” [Tony/Indians Prospect Insider]
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“But fans aren’t the only ones upset with these owners. Players and agents are just as frustrated, and one agent tells HOOPSWORLD that they’ll remember their actions long after the lockout comes to an end. “I don’t want any of my clients playing for Michael Jordan, Paul Allen, Robert Sarver, Dan Gilbert or Peter Holt,” said one agent. “We won’t sign with them, unless they’re willing to really overpay. That’s going to be the only way these hardline owners are going to land any free agents after the way they’ve handled these negotiations.” These small-market teams have a hard enough time trying to attract free agents. It won’t be any easier now thanks to the way the hardline owners have been depicted throughout this process.” [Kennedy/HoopsWorld]
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Finally, Sandy Alomar interviews in Boston. Sigh. [WFNY Tumblr]
35 Comments
To Mr. NBA agent, as if your players were going to sign here anyway…
There’d be no point in trading for Luck if Mo Massoquai is going to be his #1 receiver and the Pashos swinging gate is going to be at RT.
Strengthen the O-Line, get a back and some receivers. Then we can worry about who’ll be passing.
The Penn State football program should should just end with the current players allowed to leave for other colleges immediately.
Sometimes, the best solution for the patient is to amputate the infected limb. The program can restart eventually, but not until a few years after this case comes to a close.
If the trustees of Penn State REALLY care about their university, they will make this happen. Otherwise, every football game will serve as an opportunity for announcers to paint PSU simply as “that place that allowed SEVERAL children to be sexually assaulted.”
Most ofthe staff and students at PSU have absolutely nothing to do with this mess. However, I believe the actions of a few have ruined the reputation of all.
I vote “No” on three #1 picks for Luck. The Browns not only need a RT, but they also need depth on the OL when members inevitably begin dropping like flies. They also need someone for the guy to throw to and maybe someone who can consistently run the ball without getting carted-off the field after a week or two. There are way too many holes to be filled and way too much depth to be built to be trading that much draft wealth away on one guy when the team is nowhere near that close.
at least on offense we have our TEs to lean on
QB – McCoy needs to show more for us to NOT draft a QB
RB – Hillis/Hardesty have a long-filled injury history
WR – Little, some Cribbs, and maybe MoMass – need help here
OL – Steiny coming off injury, Pinkston/Lauvao need major improvements, need to draft a RT
Count me as a “no” on trading three 1’s to move up as well. I made this comment on Pat’s blog, but imagine if we can get 2 or 3 more starters like we’ve drafted in the first round the past 3 years–Mack, Haden, Taylor–and we start plugging them in at RT, WR, DB, or DL. Then we’re starting to build a real team. Then we can start thinking about paying king ransom’s to find a QB.
@dwhit1100 — That’s an even better angle. Okay, Luck could be an amazing QB, but would that help more than another Joe Haden, Alex Mack and equivalent in WR/RB in the long run? It’s looking like the Hardesty pick was a reach gone bad, but Heckertt appears to have worked those first round picks well. I’d like to see what he can do with three, instead of trading a ransom for a pick that I could make myself.
If we were an upgrade at QB away from competing, I would agree with trading the farm for Luck. There are simply too many holes to fill.
I am content sticking with McCoy, upgrading the O-line and WR/RB corp this offseason letting McCoy play next year, and then if it is clear that he can’t get it done with better players around him, draft a QB in the first round in 2013. I have my concerns about McCoy, but I can’t get past the idea that this disaster of an offense is largely not his fault.
With 3 picks in the top 40, there is just too much potential to significantly upgrade 3 positions of need rather than putting all of our eggs in one basket with Luck.
I guess I’m in the minority but I’d make that deal for Luck. Yes, we have a lot of holes on offense but the biggest one is at QB. If you can get the next Manning (a leap at this point but who knows) 3 number ones is cheap. Great QBs cover up a lot of sins. It’d be nice to have a QB who can do that.
I am against spending 3 number 1 picks on Luck. To me that would signal starting over yet again.
I would like to see them spend a high pick on one of these guys: Riley Reiff (Iowa), Levy Adcock (OKSt), Mike Adams (OSU) and Cordy Glenn (UGA). Glenn plays guard and tackle and would be nice to have because of that option. Don’t think he’s a first rounder though.
IF you have a QB, things are WAY easier to fill in. A QB fixes a lot of problems. Look at the Colts. With Manning, they are awesome, without Manning it looks like they are the worst team ever. If you think Luck is the guy, you pull the trigger. We can’t currently throw downfield. That’s a huge advantage for the Defense against the Browns. I’d take the QB who seems to be as sure as Manning was over two number ones at other positions that we can easily find in the NEXT draft.
@Nick – we are talking at least 3 #1 picks though and probably some other picks too.
if Luck isn’t Manning, then it would be an epic mistake. if we had a GM without a good draft track record, then I would agree with you that we might as well take that chance. However, I have liked Heckerts selections (both here and in Philly) and think that we can build a rather good team that doesn’t rely on one player getting injured.
i agree that QB is the supremely most important position. but, it’s not quite to the point where we should handcuff the rest of our team for someone that may not be able to do it all themselves (in other words, we’d be banking on Luck becoming the elite of the elite guys)
NO TRADE – PLEASE! Doesn’t matter who is behind center…If the pocket collapses in 3 seconds and your QB is eating turf every 3rd play, you will lose. AND, that QB will lose their confidence and possibly their career (Google Tim Couch). Build around the position, strengthen the line, solidify the RB spot and get at least 1 legitimate NFL WR, then get the QB.
C-Bus Kevin – that makes no sense at all. PSU, for a long, long time, is going to be painted in that light. Everyone associated with the university is going to have to deal with it, regardless of how fair that is. The existence of the football team does nothing to change that.
NBA players wont play for Gilbert b/c he took a stance in the lockout?? The players are allowed to look out for their best interest, but Gilbert, who has MUCH more at stake, isnt allowed to look after his own? What a joke the players are. You are NOTHING without the owners. Good luck trying to find 30 billionaires and 30 cities that are willing to build you the arenas you need to start your own league. I suppose you could always go over to Europe or Asia and play there as well. Good luck with that. The NBA players want out, thats fine. The NBA will suffer for a few years and then rebuild through college players and NBA walkouts who defect and come back.
I’m not sold on the Coltster either but not since Tim Couch has a Cleveland QB been more of a sitting duck. Personally I say spend $$$$ via free agency to fix the OL but if not use some draft picks, minimum of two. I prefer free agent lineman this way a top WR and possibly RB could be drafted. If they aren’t going to use Evan Moore then trade him for OL.
cbus kevin,
you are utterly utterly naive if you dont think a sandusky cant happen at your school or hasn’t happened at other schools.
your solution is breathtaking in its short-sightedness and at the same time does nothing to correct any problem.
i am embarrassed for you.
@mbgode – yes it would be an epic mistake to trade 3 picks for 1 guy whom you deem to be LEGIT. i mean, new orleans did that with Ricky Williams and their franchise has never recovered.
i am not super happy about it but i would be on board for 3 picks for Luck. Maybe the Browns could get a 3rd or 4th rounder to come with it.
3 first round picks for Luck?! did we learn nothing from the Tim Couch debacle? what good is No.1 QB if we can’t protect him? yeah, yeah, I know, Joe Thomas is great, but he and Alex Mack are only 2 bodies, what good are they if the rest couldn’t block a 4th grader?
@ Jim
When did I say it couldn’t happen at another school?
How is my solution short sighted?
All I’m saying is that the Penn State football program is so painted by this horrIble set of circumstances that it cannot be simply corrected by a few firings. If there was ever an example of ‘lack of instuitional control’, this is it.
Also, it sounds like you’re saying that PSU shouldn’t receive such a harsh punishment because ‘this could happen anywhere’…kind of like a ‘we shouldn’t punish them too much because bad things happen all the time’ argument.
Things like this don’t ‘just happen’. When Sandusky was caught by the grad assistant, It should have ended right there, but it didn’t. Everyone involved gave Sandusky a pass and told him not to bring kids on campus…effectively saying, ‘just don’t do it here’.
What happened on that campus was absolutely terrible, beyond the normal scope of improper behavior. By saying that I am naive because I, according to you, don’t think this could happen on another campus, you are normalizing this abuse like it ‘happens all the time’.
Now I get to be embarrassed for you.
@saggy
Their franchise never recovered? Didn’t New Orleans win the Superbowl a few years ago? I’d say they recovered nicely.
I get what you are saying though. I just don’t agree with it. The Browns aren’t one player away from doing anything. Heckert and Holmgren are building through the draft. That is the correct way to do this. Trading away 3 number ones (which in truth are 3 starting players for your team) for one guy would be advisable IF they were one player away..but they are clearly not. I’d rather have a strong core of players from the draft and then add to it via free agency.
I understand how everyone is putting a huge value on the offense line and I agree the that general idea. However I also believe that we are undervaluing how much a great QB means to that line. You don’t need all first rounders to make a good line. We have two already. I’m disappointed Heckert wasn’t active in fixing the line before the season started and said so at the time. But he has that opportunity this offseason. Every off season good linemen can be acquired. The same isn’t true for franchise QBs. If Luck is actually available I believe we have to make a move for him.
Also, I understand the Couch comparisons but come on. Couch isn’t Luck. Not even close. And besides, I would trust our current front office to fill in around him more than Dwight Clark and the rest of the gang who failed at restarting the Browns.
kevin,
i you want to know my thoughts on this issue, see my twitter timeline.
you can cool it with the sports talk radio gambit of putting words in my mouth.
@Jim – I know where you stand on the whole PSU fiasco as we’ve tweeted each other about it. However, I’m not sure I understand your critique of what Kevin is saying. While ending the program is a bit extreme, it certainly would let students, staff and administrators know that the deference football has held at Penn State would be over.
at mark and kevin: you’re scapegoating penn state when the fact is this could certainly have happened anywhere. including ohio state. you dont know that it hasnt.
so you effectively punish the students and alumni for the crime of supporting a big-time football program.. as though ohio st or alabama or usc or texas or wisconsin students and alumni are in any way fundamentally different.
good god, columbus chased herbstreit out of town because he was ‘critical’ of the program. gordon gee ‘hoped tressel wouldnt fire him.’ you don’t think there’s a ‘culture of enablement’ in columbus? of course there is.
and if community-wide enablement of a football-first culture created the problem at penn st, then shouldnt we stamp out enabling cultures where ever we find them?
this smells like the same idiot buckeyes fans wanting to throw the book at usc two years ago.. whoops.
net:
this could happen anywhere.
you’re not different from penn st.
act accordingly.
So according to your logic Jim:
I’m an Ohio U. Fan.
The stuff that happened at OSU could happen anywhere.
Innocent players would be punished along with the guilty if the team is punished
Therefore, the team should not be punished.
Got it.
In the end, shutting down the program for a while, in my opinion, might be the right call, but it’s only my opinion.
A while back, SMU set the bar for dysfunction in a football program. That bar was lowered by PSU by allowing this abuse to go unreported. SMU got the ‘death penalty’ for their offenses. What would be the next logical step? Shutting down the program.
Sure, something this terrible could happen a lot of places…but it didn’t happen a lot of places. It happened at Penn State…with a coach that had easy access to at-risk kids. The school knew about it and made protecting the program, not the kids, the priority. Therefore, the program should be punished.
If we need to get a new quarterback, we should draft him in the next year or two before we get too good and pick below all the quality QBs. There are still good OLs available at the bottom of the 1st round and in later rounds.
Wow. Lots of baseless assumptions in that one. Disregard.
@crobarred – they say that it’s not a good use of sarcasm if you have to explain yourself afterwards. I was kidding about New Orleans. But since you brought it up, the Saints made one major move (and other smaller ones) on their way to the Super Bowl: Drew Brees. He plays QB, in case you didn’t know. QB matters. I think that’s going to be my new slogan.
QB Matters.
@saggy, of course qb matters. but is there a correlation between the qb’s draft position and success? for every manning there’s a brady. elway-montana. ryan leaf. jamarcus. aaron rodgers was first round.. but alex smith was 1st overall. jason campbell was taken with the pick directly after rodgers. you know?
the browns 1st rd qbs were phipps, kosar, couch, quinn. wait ok, graham was first round if we’re going back in time. but they also took harry agganis and bobby garrett.
my point is two-fold:
– there’s really no way to know if a qb truly has it before hand.
– and even if he does ‘have it’ he wont be able to use it unless he has a decent line and players surrounding him.
i;m down with crobarred and others who want to go to work on the line.
@c-bus kev,
been giving your p.o.v. a second thought. i still disagree, but i having a hard time crafting a non knee-jerk response to it. would be happy to take it off line with you if you’re interested in taking it further.
but meantime — i hope you see this — i apologize for jumping you so harshly above. that’s on me. i’m sorry.
@ Jim
No worries man. Sometimes things just get a little heated, especially with extreme cases like this PSU mess.
Don’t sweat it though. I’ve been on the giving end of plenty of comments that in hind sight, I regretted sending…it happens.
I’m not opposed to discussing ‘off site’ in the future, but I think I want to let this particular topic rest until more facts become available. In the meantime, we can agree/disagree about the future of the Browns.
On a side note…is it just me, or have some of the commenters on this site started getting WAY too harsh lately. I understand passion for your teams and your opinions, but the name calling is a bit much. I wouldn’t include you in this group by a long shot.
Lifes tough enough without Cleveland Fan on Cleveland Fan crime, you know?
@ kev, great! excellent. glad we’re good; it was bugging me.
fan-on-fan crime is the exact phrase in my mind when i read some of the back and forth. i miss the good old days when we’d get the odd steelers or ravens troll.
as pertains to the hot browns talk, i think that’s partly due to the lack of critical reporting/analysis from the paper of record. (and here to some degree, right craig?) it makes the ‘impatient faction’ want to find an outlet, vent, and next thing you know i’m calling out craig as blogging chris fedor.
{internal pause. oh yeah. that happened too.*}
the other dynamic, i think, relates to the growing poster community here. when you dont who’s who, it becomes anonymous, mutual respect isnt extended, and next thing you know it’s the cleve dot com forum. (eg, i think long time patrons of the site know oribiasi.. know he’s not trolling.. and are fine with where he’s coming from.) if there were a way to expand the posters’ profiles with twitter links and post history it might help, just a thought.
i started coming here specifically because c-dot-com forum is so heinous. i come back because the community commentary here is strong. with the core group of regulars here, i think it’ll all be fine.
*i know we’re good craig, but do please accept my apology for the fedor remark.