Cavaliers to Host Derrick Williams for Workout Today
June 14, 2011Luke Fickell Takes the Reigns at Ohio State, But is He Ready?
June 14, 2011I would be lying if I said that I saw what transpired in New York this weekend coming. It’s hard to predict something that awful and impotent. Unless of course you’re talking about this man.
But I did think there was a good chance that we’d enter our game this evening in a virtual lock with the Detroit Tigers. We were going up against the best offense in baseball while the Tigers got to beat up on the Seattle Mariners. It seemed that we’d likely lose our slight lead over Detroit that we had going into the Yankees series, shifting a new sort of focus on the competition between the Indians and Tigers—competition that seemed silly to discuss just four weeks ago.
Which, in some ways, is really exciting. This series is hopefully going to be the beginning of a season-long back-and-forth between two good (yet flawed) teams.
In that vein, let’s go around the diamond and evaluate the teams against each other, position-by-position.
Starting Pitching – So far this season, the Tigers have a better team ERA than the Indians by a not insignificant margin—3.92 to 4.35. They’ve also pitched about 20 more innings, but that’s exaggerated since they’ve made two more starts. Without a doubt, the Tigers have an ace in Verlander, and as good as Justin Masterson has been, he’s not remotely in that league quite yet. On the other hand, I think the Indians have significantly more depth. I wrote last week that we have four starters who are all #2 or #3 options. Detroit’s second best starter is Phil Coke. That’s not so good.
Regardless, I think I’d give Detroit a slight edge here, if only because Verlander is really that good.
First Base – Miguel Cabrera is one of the best players in baseball. Matt LaPorta is not. Advantage Detroit. In every imaginable way.
Second Base – Believe it or not, Detroit’s second base woes are actually worse than ours. Detroit recently shipped off their only promising second base option to Oakland (Scott Sizemore, who hit a walk-off this weekend), whereas Cleveland recently brought Cord Phelps, who, so long as he continues to draw breath, should be a significant upgrade over Orlando Cabrera. Ryan Raburn is batting .200, and sits atop the Tigers depth chart.
I’m more comfortable with our second base options, both today and going forward. Advantage Cleveland.
Short Stop – Asdrubal Cabrera is one of the best players in baseball. Jhonny Peralta…is having a nice season. Fool me once, shame on…you….You can’t get fooled again. Or something like that. Advantage Cleveland.
Third Base – Some people have asked why I give Orlando Cabrera such a hard time, while giving Jack Hannahan a pass, despite a measly .323 OBP. Well, Jack Hannahan’s defense is astonishingly good, which prevents runs, which helps us win. That’s why he gets a pass for his paltry offense—from me at least.
Hannahan’s Detroit counter-point is a combination of Brandon Inge (DL) and Don Kelly. Inge is defensively average at third, but Kelly grades out very well. Kelly’s offensive numbers are pretty anemic, with a .247/.300/.333 line so far. This also makes him the best third base option the Tigers have by quite a bit. Inge is sporting a .279(!) OBP and a .286 slugging percentage. Inge is one of the worst offensive players in baseball. And he’s fairly old, meaning that his poor performance might be at least partially suggestive of an overall decline in skills. Also, if I know Jim Leyland the way I think I do, Inge will be handed the third base job as soon as he’s off the DL.
Which means Cleveland wins here too.
Catcher – If it were as simple as Victor against Santana, this would be no contest. But it’s not. Victor is only catching about one out of every four games played this season, meaning that Alex Avila is Detroit’s primary catcher. Unfortunately for the Indians, Alex Avila is having a much better season than Carlos Santana. If you ask me who I want for the next five years, it’s Santana. But who’s going to have the better season this year? It’s probably Avila. Yikes.
So it goes. Advantage Detroit.
Left Field – I’m calling Brantley our left fielder, because I think that’s where he’ll spend most of the rest of the season. We’ll team him up against Brennan Boesch, who’s caught fire of late for the Tigers. According to WAR, this race is really close, with the slight advantage going to Brantley. I believe that Brennan Boesch is flukey and that Michael Brantley has a chance to be a really good player, so I’m not really an impartial judge here.
But you don’t pay your hard-earned imaginary blog money for impartiality. I’m giving this to Brantley as well. Though by all means, feel free to call this one a tie if you must.
Center Field – Make no mistake: Grady Sizemore is a better player than Austin Jackson. At least he was. I have no idea if Grady v2011 is healthy, and even if he is, I have no idea if he’s remotely the same player he used to be. Terry Pluto made the argument this weekend that Grady has developed strictly into a power hitter (the evidence being that he has more doubles than singles and has a terrible K/BB ratio). I don’t know if that’s true, but if he’s not taking walks, he’s not nearly as valuable as a hitter. Right now his OBP is .326. His career line is .362. If this is the new Grady, I’m giving this (reluctantly and by default) to Austin Jackson and the Kitties.
Right Field – Shin-Soo Choo has been flat-out awful this season. He has been twice as good as Magglio Ordonez (who, shockingly, is still listed as the primary right fielder on the team’s website). This is not an exaggeration. For some reason, the Tigers have given Magglio Ordonez over 100 plate appearances this season. He has repaid them with a .172/.226/.232 line. This is a worse batting line than the Houston Astros pitching staff has. I’m not kidding.
Hold your nose and give it to Choo.
DH – V-Mart > Hafner. We already knew that though, right? Advantage Detroit.
Bullpen – This is tricky, since the sample sizes are still so small. But Cleveland’s bullpen has a 3.48 ERA compared to 4.85. Cleveland has the better FIP, walk-rate, home run rate, strand-rate (LOB%) and WAR. The Tigers relievers have a better strikeout rate and more saves. Cleveland does not have a player who jeopardized his own career and historic fastball velocity playing Guitar Hero. We win.
Bench – This is where small payroll teams really have some trouble. Not only can we not afford to pay decent players to sit on our bench, but those players we do pay have to get playing time to justify their contracts (I disagree with this philosophy, by the way, but it’s been pretty apparent here over the last few years). We’re also not so fond—for good reason—of using the bench spots on young, up-and-coming players. Which means that right now the Indians bench consists of: Orlando Cabrera, Austin Kearns, Travis Buck, Lou Marson, and Adam Everett. There is really not a bigger collection of awful anywhere in the whole world. I’m not even going to check their roster. Detroit wins.
Manager – Detroit’s skipper has the rings, the emphysema, and the get-off-my-lawn scowl. Manny has his stogies, fedoras, and a lot more losses than wins. I would never want my team to employ Jim Leyland, but even still, it’s hard to argue that Acta’s career is remotely comparable in any way. We’ll give this one to Detroit, with the caveat that if the Indians hire Jim Leyland, I will emigrate to Botswana in protest, where I will raise goats and learn to appreciate cricket.
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Like I argued last week, I think these teams are not so different. When the Indians got off to a great start, no one thought they were actually that good. By the same token, the Tigers have now won for a solid month on the backs of Austin Jackson and Brennan Boesch, who are bound to come back to earth as well.
Maybe I’m wearing rose-colored glasses here, but I’m not intimidated by the Tigers. Not remotely.
Let’s hope our players feel the same way.
18 Comments
Hahahaha, nice DA reference. Very clever and well played.
The one thing I don’t think you can discount is experience and our squad is (I believe) quite a bit younger. I would give an overwhelming advantage to the tigers in this race. If you’re going to call it that at this point.
Thanks for the photo. Now I’m scrubbing my eyeballs with steel wool.
“Fool me once, shame on…you….You can’t get fooled again.”
Nice. Gotta love the former president…
Those glasses aren’t just rose colored, friend.
In all honesty, it isn’t the Tigers that worry me in the long run. They have very little pitching depth, old and overpriced players at key positions, and an awful minor league system right now (making it that much harder to improve as the season goes along). The White Sox (and to a lesser extent the Twins) have been underperforming all season. In spite of their poor performance, both teams have given the Tribe fits already (Sox are 4-1, Twins are 5-1 vs the Indians this year). If either of those teams figure things out in the next month, they will be the team chasing the Tribe down the stretch.
Hannahan’s OBP is actually above the AL average.
Also, don’t sleep on the White Sox. I still think they’re the best team in the Central.
I think the Sox are the best team in the Central as well.
I didnt fear Detroit, at all, when we were playing well. Theyve got talent but theyve also been languishing in mediocrity since they went to the World Series in 2006. Detroit might win this division but they certainly wont run away with it. If the Tribe can get their act together offensively they can be right there with these guys.
I have a feeling though, that both Detroit and Cleveland will be looking up at Chicago come September. We had a double digit lead over the Sox a few weeks ago, now they are only 4 back. Even the Twins went from being 16 games back to 9.5, if they get Mauer back and start hitting, I wouldnt be shocked if they caught us either.
fool me once shame on you fool me twice….. shame on the shamer
be nice if we could win a series. nicer that it could put us back alone in 1st place.
I stopped reading when you said that Phil Coke is the Tigers’ second best starter. That’s like saying Travis Buck is better than Shin-Soo Choo. Hey, he’s batting 10 points higher!… Even if you’re going by ERA, Porcello is better than Coke. The Indians would be in good shape if Coke was the Tigers’ second best starter. Unfortunately for them, he’s the fourth or fifth best. If Tomlin can keep pitching the way he has, Carmona gets it together, and the Indians can get serviceable pitching from their fifth starter, they may have as good or slightly better rotational depth than the Tigers. I like Carrasco, but Scherzer is a much better bet to have success this year, and while I definitely would have overwhelmingly taken Porcello over Tomlin to start the year, Tomlin’s exceptional control makes that close. Now you’re looking at Carmona and probably Talbot vs. Penny and Coke. If Carmona brings his ERA down to 2010 level, it’s advantage Indians, but right now the TIgers might have the advantage there. Talbot’s ERA may be respectable, but his WHIP is 1.63. It’s just a matter of time until he starts getting shelled. Alex White could help a lot if the Indians are still in the thick of the race come August.
Detroit’s second best starter is clearly Max Scherzer, not Phil Coke.
I’m starting to think I should have said that Detroit’s starting rotation is stronger than Cleveland’s.
Oh. Wait…
@Zach – you bring up good points. Let’s take a closer look at some of the stats that matter most (IMO). Also, they show why Jon said that Phil Coke has been the Tigers 2nd best starter (though personally I think Porcello is a better pitcher).
WHIP SLG% K/BB WAR
masterson 1.29 .348 2.26 2.0
tomlin 1.09 .437 3.83 0.9
carrasco 1.29 .378 2.05 1.4
carmona 1.33 .442 2.08 0.3
talbot 1.63 .448 1.53 0.0
verlander 0.94 .319 3.72 2.4
porcello 1.30 .392 1.95 0.8
scherzer 1.44 .451 2.53 1.0
penny 1.35 .446 1.44 0.6
coke 1.28 .358 1.74 1.2
Note1: I think it’s important to group WHIP w/ SLG% because WHIP doesn’t tell you if they are giving up a bunch of singles&walks or if more damage is being done.
Note2: It’s hard to judge Talbot relative to the other pitchers here because he is the only one with less than 60IP (he has 33IP). So, getting absolutely shelled by the Red Sox means alot more on his numbers than a very similer line does to Phil Coke’s numbers (he got shelled by Seattle of all teams).
My take: by the numbers, it’s fairly evident that the Tigers have by far the best pitcher (Verlander vs. Masterson) and we have by far the worst pitcher (Talbot vs. Penny – but see note2 above). If we compare the middle 3 starters on each staff, then it still looks pretty even. Tomlin (vs. Coke) looks like the best of them but only if he can keepup his ridiculously good K/BB rate. Porcello and Carrasco are really, really close. That just leaves Carmona vs. Scherzer. Scherzer has been better, but what really concerns me about Fausto is that there isn’t much here to suggest that he’s doing much differently this season except giving up HRs/Doubles instead of singles as all his other numbers are nearly identical (and he has a GB% of 58%, which means an extra-ordinary amount of the line drive hits off him are hitting the gaps and going over the wall)
ooops, forgot the quick wrap-up.
so, detroit wins 3-1-1. but, that’s so far this season. w/ Penny’s penchant for injury woes, Carrasco’s hopeful continued development and Talbot hopefully showing that 1 game was an aberration (1st back from injury to boot), it could easily swing back in our direction.
‘Shame On’ by Aerosmith was quite the jam back in its day.
I think Verlander alone may be stronger then our entire roster
So Sizemore’s OBP is park-adjusted league average right now. That means Jackson, who’s OBP is also park-adjusted league average the better player. Huh? No, new Grady is not as good as old Grady, but he’s still on pace for 4 WAR/600 PAs. Thats a good ballplayer