The Browns’ 2011 Opponents
February 22, 2011The 5-Hole: Blue Jackets News and Notes – 2/22/11
February 22, 2011
By now, you’re surely aware that the inevitable has come to fruition and Carmelo Anthony is a New York Knick. Carmelo is no LeBron James, but for a Knicks organization starved for superstars and relevant basketball teams again, he surely comes as a suitable consolation prize.
For the rest of the NBA, this is just more of the same, a growing trend of players forcing their way out of the franchises who drafted them and away from the fans who dared to love them, on to superstar conglomerate teams in major markets. While the jury remains out on the ultimate success of these arranged marriages in Miami and New York, the impact on the Cleveland Cavaliers is worth noting.
The Knicks are now set up perfectly to add on one of Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, or Derron Williams (should he opt out) in 2012 to complete their triumvirate. It may be debatable as to how successful this team will actually be, but it is certain that what the Knicks are doing is creating a core that makes the Cavaliers’ own rebuilding effort a little more difficult. In essence, the Knicks are now yet one more hurdle Cleveland must overcome to get back to prominence.
For any frustration that mid marker teams may be feeling today, though, you do have to at least give Carmelo Anthony credit for not deceiving the Nuggets and for giving them a chance to at least formulate a Plan B for a ‘Melo-less future. This was a luxury LeBron never gave the Cavaliers, and the ramifications will be felt in Cleveland for years.
You can disregard the ignorance of folks like Chris Rock, who suggest it’s the Cavs’ own fault for not trading LeBron. The Cavaliers were never going to trade LeBron as long as he was still saying he had “never given any indication he was unhappy with Cleveland and wanted to play elsewhere”. For all the retroactive certainty over his destination, the fact remains that in that moment, almost everyone was in agreement that the Cavaliers had more than a good chance to hang on to their beloved superstar.
The fault here lies, again, with LeBron James. It is now known that LeBron James had a plan all along, and that this whole process played out exactly as LeBron and his team had hoped. So one might wonder why LeBron James couldn’t have had the decency to fill the hometown Cleveland franchise in on his plan and given the team a chance to decide whether to chase that title one last time or else cut their losses and move on to their own Plan B.
The Denver Nuggets had a deal in place and agreed upon with the New Jersey Nets that would have brought Devin Harris, Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy, Ben Uzoh, and four first-round picks. The deal with the Knicks brought in Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, a first round pick, and other future picks and cash considerations.
Neither package will replace Carmelo Anthony, but they certainly give the Nuggets something to work with and more options for rebuilding. It’s certainly a better return on their loss than two first-round picks, two-second round picks, and a comparatively useless trade exception. If those are the types of packages the Nuggets could get for Carmelo Anthony, then just imagine what the Cavaliers might have been able to get for LeBron James. Carmelo is a nice player, but he is not LeBron James.
This trade just illustrates yet another way that LeBron burnt the Cavaliers franchise and left them high and dry. Some Denver fans have said they would have preferred the sudden sucker punch to the gut that LeBron delivered to the slow, agonizing burn of losing Carmelo. The counter argument, of course, is that at least the Nuggets were left with something to show for their loss other than the pain, embarrassment, and excessive losing the Cavaliers were left with.
The Nuggets took some risk in this. There was always the chance that the upcoming CBA might address the issue of superstars leaving their teams. Perhaps had the Nuggets held on to Carmelo, the new CBA would have allowed him to earn so much money by staying that he would have decided to remain in Denver. But at least the Nuggets had options and a decision to make. For the Cavaliers, who believed all along that LeBron James would be coming back, their only decision was whether or not to accept the table scraps Miami was offering.
The past may be relegated to staying in the past, but that doesn’t stop us from learning from it none the less. There’s no going back and changing things, but the Carmelo Anthony ordeal taught a valuable lesson about how to be upfront and honest about one’s desires and how it can create a slightly more suitable arrangement for all parties concerned.
The one thing Cavaliers fans and Nuggets fans can both agree on today, though, is that it’s not fun losing your franchise player. Both LeBron and Carmelo took the Cavs and Nuggets on a great ride over the last 7 years and fans of both organizations now have to deal with the loss of their superstars and the sting of altered expectations.
Perhaps someday the NBA will be a league where the likes of Cleveland and Denver are seen as suitable destinations thanks to the amenities of first class ownership, facilities, and environment. Perhaps then they will be deemed “worthy” of having first class superstars play for them. Until then, they will continue to operate as second class citizens striving to prove themselves in a world where the deck is stacked against them.
49 Comments
I agree with the point your making, that Cleveland could have salvaged some assets if LeBron had let them know he was going, but it’s possible that Denver will now become a perennial 1st round exit playoff team and never be able to pick up any decent lottery assets (see Indiana) until it completely rebuilds.
The Cavs at least have been left in such a dire state that they have a chance to find another franchise player with a high lottery pick.
What’s really the better position to be in? I guess time will tell…
The upcoming lock-out will be the saving grace for cities like Denver & Cleveland. The rules are going to change, they have too. All you have to think about is Mr. Gilbert’s upcoming casino. Whomever the Cavs draft in the next two years, if they are a franchise player, will be the catalyst for getting “butts in seats” at the casino.
Great stuff, as always, Andrew.
We have no idea what the salary cap will be like with the uncertainty surrounding the CBA. Judging from the talk coming from the Commish, it looks like the owners are more than willing to force a lock-out in exchange for lower salaries. While at this time the Knicks may have the space to sign another big time free agent in 2012, it is highly likely the salary cap will be much lower than it currently is. There is also the chance the owners put into place a franchise tag similar to the NBA. If they did that do you think there is any way Paul, Howard, or Deron hits the open market? Not a chance.
While it’s true that Carmelo Anthony is no LeBron James, one key difference between his situation and LeBron’s is that Carmelo was apparently willing to commit to signing a 3-year extension with the Knicks. LeBron, on the other hand, always made perfectly clear that he was going to become a free agent. So it’s not necessarily the case that the Cavs could have gotten more for LeBron than Denver just got. Not very many teams would give that much up just to rent LeBron for a half season.
I hope Matt is right about the lock out. I’m looking forward to it and I hope the NBA finds a way to let small and mid-market teams keep their talent. Right now, the system is a joke, and the Knicks are already salivating about adding Chris Paul to their roster.
Here’s the problem with looking at the package that Denver received and talking about how it makes rebuilding easier.
Even if we knew LBJ wasn’t resigning we NEVER would have traded him. We had the best regular season record in back-to-back seasons. It was Championship-or-Bust… Unfortunately we busted.
I was searching around last night and found a knicks blog where people were upset by the trade. I would say 3 of 4 comments were negative reviews of a trade that brought Melo, Billups and Brewer to NYK.
When I saw the title I was sure the article would be about how the Knicks realized that you can’t get a second superstar without taking drastic action.
I don’t understand the draft in pro sports. Why are people upset and suprised when these superstars want out of the loser teams who get to draft them? These guys are winners and want to win. Who wants to spend a career trying to make a loser team into something it will probably never be which is a championship team.
Hi Bob @9!
Things that are allowed under the current rules: Signing with any team as a free agent.
Things that are not allowed under the current rules: conspiring with other players and team management while still under contract with one team, to join another team.
Things that are frowned upon: creating a TV show to celebrate oneself while turning ones back on ones hometown fans.
Vocally demanding a trade, and thus creating a distraction for ones teammates. Further frowned upon in that scenarion – complaining about the attention.
Nice attempt at trolling Capt. Barker.
While I wish in hindsight that the Cavs had traded Lebron to get something to build with in return, I can’t even imagine the storm of garbage press that would have come out against the Cavs front office. Thousands of pieces on “you can’t trade the ‘arguably’ greatest player of his generation” etc. etc. Pretty much a no win scenario.
The most depressing point about this whole situation is how top loaded the East is. Chicago, Miami, Boston(in the short term), New York, Magic (if Dwight stays). We are going to see some street fights trying to get the 7-8th playoff seeds for the next 2-3 years. All for the honor of getting squashed in the 1st round. And predictable seasons start becoming extremely boring.
@11 Eli – I don’t think that top heaviness is such a major concern. Look how quickly the teams that are there got there. And the Knicks have a lot of work to do before they’re listed along with the others.
Well, if LeBron was telling Cleveland flat out “Look, I don’t want to be here. I’m going to sign in Miami next year to play with Wade,” I think the press would have understood. And maybe Cleveland would have still said “That’s ok, we’ll take our chances and try one last time to win this year.” That would have been fine, too. But at least they would have had that choice. That’s what kills me. LeBron left the team with no options.
Roosevelt clearly is a ‘booty guy’ [via not caring about top-heaviness].
Andrew, total agreement. I was working from the premise that we attempted to trade him given the ambiguity of the situation, which of course was incredibly unlikely given how much winning we were doing and the “all in” nature of our trades and FA signings.
Also, I’m pretty convinced that Lebron and his crew are not mature enough for serious long term planning, so I do believe that he was still up in the air on where he was going to end up. There were all the smoke signals about Miami opening cap space and the Olympic discussion, but it just seems like too complex a plan.
Which, in the end, is why we need to begin the Jimmer Time era after we draft him.
valid points all around… I’m still bitter that we gave him his max contract in the sign and trade. We should have let him go on his way and negotiate his own deal with the Heat. And yes, I know that’s a cutting your nose to spite the face scenario.
But along the lines of what Matthew said, suppose LeBron had said he was going to Miami no matter what. What could Cleveland have gotten from Miami anyways? Miami didn’t have anyone worth taking. Dorrell Wright and Michael Beasley? They basically gave those players away anyways, and the Cavs could have had Beasley for nothing if they wanted him. The reason Denver got a decent package for Carmelo is because he was so clear about leaving, yet vague about where he was going (plus the owner of the team everyone knew he was going to being desperate/a moron). That probably wouldn’t have been the case with LeBron. There is really little chance this could have worked out much better for the Cavs, unless LeBron was willing (or could have been compelled) to play somewhere other than with Wade.
Carmelo Anthony was in no way, shape, or form, vague about where he was going. From day one he was intent on going to New York and nowhere else. Free agency is always an unknown. If you can trade to acquire a LeBron James, you don’t gamble on free agency….you do it. Pat Riley would have found 3rd and maybe even 4th teams to bring in to make a package suitable for the Cavs. Had the Cavs decided to trade LeBron, they would have gotten something of quality in return.
Even if LBJ had said I’m going to Miami next season, before the deadline, I don’t think it would have been smart to trade him during the season. We were the best team and he was having the greatest statistical season of all time. Had he not quit, it’s a real possibility we could have won the title. What we wouldn’t have done was trade for Jamison, and we still could have gotten the trade exception and picks. No one can EVER claim that Ferry and Co. didn’t do their best to bring in every piece possible to make this team a winner.
There is no happy medium in this situation. Had LBJ not quit and we still lost, then he just had a small press conference prior to FA even starting that he wasn’t going to return, I’d still be a fan of his. He didn’t handle it with class or professionalism and that’s where the problem lies.
I think under the new CBA, and right now under the current rules, the Knicks won’t be able to sign another superstar (I.E. Paul/Williams). They are capped out and I don’t see those guys taking $5M of MLE money to play there.
The only explanation I can come up with for the Knicks giving up three quality role players plus the picks is they think there is at least a chance Carmelo would have gone somewhere else. That’s all I meant by vague.
I’m not sure what Miami could have gotten from a third team. Maybe Riley could somehow have put together a comparable package. Still, I don’t like letting Carmelo off the hook either. Whatever this trend is, it’s no good for the league whether it’s done LeBron’s way or Carmelo’s way.
“it’s possible that Denver will now become a perennial 1st round exit playoff team ”
They already were that with Carmelo.
The idea that the Cavs organization might have taken a harder line with LeBron last season isn’t worth discussing at all here? A conversation between LeBron and the front office about either getting some kind of commitment from LeBron or getting something significant in return for him wasn’t a conversation worth considering? Strange.
Also, what LeBron and Carmelo have done is technically the exact opposite of an “arranged marriage.”
Finally, the idea that LeBron had been planning all along to sign with the Heat is not established by any set of known facts that I’m aware of, and certainly not by those discussed in the post linked as an apparent citation for the fact. The fact that the Decision was as big of a disaster as it was is strong proof against the notion.
I think your premise that James knew he was going to Miami way before the end of the season. Where is your evidence? I also differ with you on Anthony. How do you know he was only going to NY? You can’t possibly know this because you are not part of his advisory team nor part of either the Knicks or the Nuggets. What we did know that there was a high probability that he was not going to sign with the Nuggets.
What is your point in questioning the minutiae? The point of the article remains. Denver made a legit trade and brought back players. The Cavs had reason to believe LeBron was coming back and ended up losing at least one season and maybe a decade so he could turn his free agency into a carnival.
Carmelo arranged his marriage with Amar’e and LeBron arranged his marriage “Big Love” style with Bosh and Wade. I believe that is what Andrew meant.
Melo, while somewhat burning his fans in Denver smells like a rose compared to LeBron who ruined his legacy in Cleveland. I know you disagree and hope to garner sympathy for LeBron via many different strategies, but it isn’t going to work even if you get victories on three or four little points that are questionable.
This thing was set in stone from day one when Amare and CP3 were toasting their future together in New York at Carmelo’s wedding. There was never a doubt that Carmelo was going to be a Knick. And you don’t have to be a part of his entourage to know that, you just have to be a well read observer of the NBA. All this NJ stuff was just posturing to get the Knicks to pull the trigger on Carmelo now so that he could have his cake (play for the Knicks) and eat it (get his max extension), too.
That’s just Pete being Pete.
if the Nuggets ended up with the treasure trove of rebuilding pieces from the Nets, then sure it’s a valid argument.
but, the fact they were regulated to taking the Knicks deal because Melo wouldn’t go to NJ and that they are getting a bunch of role players to replace their superstar shouldn’t make us think we got any worse of a deal.
at least we have a chance over the next 2 drafts to find our next superstar. the Nuggets will likely keep themselves just afloat enough to miss out on good draft picks and be stuck in ‘Pacers-West’ territory (a nice enough team but barely a playoff one if they make it and no threat at all to win a playoff series).
I actually prefer where we ended up to the Nuggets “package”
I like what Denver got It’ll be interesting to see how the Nuggets develop. As for the Knicks I guess they won’t be a doormat anymore. That will be left for the Cavaliers. Chris Grant better be doing his homework because you just might have the Browns part 2 happening.
My hope is only that people can use reason based on real facts when they analyze things and account for all relevant considerations in the process. My points relate to a lot more than “minutae” here.
You say the point of this piece is that Cavs “ended up losing at least one season and maybe a decade so he could turn his free agency into a carnival.” Fine if that’s what the point is supposed to be, but you can’t really make that point with any integrity unless you thoroughly treat the possibility that the Cavs “ended up losing at least one season and maybe a decade” thanks (at least in part) to their own actions. Why can’t we even consider the idea that putting some pressure on LeBron might have been the way to go? Even in small part? That’s strange, and the omission makes for a poor overall analysis.
Also disagree that this idea that LeBron had been planning to leave all along is a “little point.” Especially if you want to use that point to make LeBron look even worse like Andrew did here (“One might wonder why LeBron James couldn’t have had the decency to fill the hometown Cleveland franchise in on his plan”). Worse when if this is true, it drastically simplifies the situation and makes the Cavs organization’s failure to communicate usefully with LeBron come off even worse. But again, that’s not even considered here.
Anyway, even if it was a little point, I do think one should refrain from pretending things are established facts when they’re not. And by any use of the term, an “arranged marriage” is one that someone else forces the participants into. It’s not an “arranged marriage” if the participants choose to participate. Let the little things slip and the big ones tend to go as well. As we see.
@mgbode: I can’t say I agree. The Nuggets are now looking to turn around and trade Gallinari in an attempt to acquire yet another 1st round pick. Felton will be an expiring contract next year, giving them the option of trading either he or Ty Lawson. It’s all about having options, and the Nuggets have plenty of them. The Cavaliers had no choice or options about their future. I’d much prefer be in Denver’s position today than Cleveland’s.
The league has become a total joke now. The funny thing is LeBron started all of this and now a year later has made it harder for his team to win.
“Why can’t we even consider the idea that putting some pressure on LeBron might have been the way to go? Even in small part? That’s strange, and the omission makes for a poor overall analysis.”
You have a blog, and can feel free to do so there. To call my analysis “poor” because you want to have an argument that has nothing to do with what I’m talking about here is ridiculous. The Nuggets didn’t need to put pressure on Carmelo. He told them what he wanted and was upfront about his intentions. My point (and my ONLY point, as I have no intentions of turning this into a bigger argument for my own personal reasons) is that LeBron should have done the same. If you want to question the Cavs’ actions, that’s fine, but that’s a whole different topic for a completely different post.
@andrew – it will be how they play it out and the decisions they make, of course, but I would still rather have Kyrie Irving than anyone the Nuggets got back. and the NBA is more about having a few great players with enough supporting players around them.
if the Nuggets get an early 1st rounder for Gallinari I would be surprised. if they get a low 1st rounder, well isn’t Grant telling us we can just buy one of those picks anyway?
But the Cavs don’t have Irving yet. 🙂
Honestly, I can’t sit here and say I have all the answers. Your opinion is perfectly valid. If it were up to me, though, I would have preferred the Cavs get a package similar to what Denver got over what the Cavaliers got from Miami.
Let’s make sure we save all of this arguing so we can copy and paste it and change the names 7 years from now after we get the #1 pick in this draft and he turns into a star and leaves Cleveland.
Nothing could’ve been done by the Cavs organization about the LeBron debacle (they should’ve surrounded him with a better team, but that isn’t my point). Everyone in Cleveland thought the Cavs had a legitimate chance to win a championship and I hope that every Cavs fan would rather take a shot at the championship rather than trade LeBron.
IMO, LeBron knew he was going to Miami the whole time and Carmello knew he was going to NY the whole time.
the owner of the CAVs should sue the the players who conspired to ruin the franchise
@andrew – i’m hoping against hope that Irving is who we end up with. don’t take that hope from me 🙂
yeah, I see your points too, I just disagree (until we miss out on Irving, draft Perry Jones and watch him be terrible. shivering now, thanks)
Fair enough, Andrew, but you’re assuming without basis that LeBron’s intention wasn’t what he said it was all along, which was to consider all proposals before making the decision. How could he have done what Carmelo did if that was the case? On the other hand, the Cavs might have said, “hey, LeBron, this game of yours isn’t something we can afford to play” and gone from there. Seems worth pointing out that this at least was a possibility if you’re going to go so hard at LeBron.
The Cavaliers coDdled LBJ from day 1 and paid the price. If they weren’t smart enough to have plan b or c then shame on them. Gilbert was a hypocrite too especially with that stupid letter the night of the decision. He alienated the franchise with the players but hey at least the fans fell for it. Point is a winning organization doesn’t put itself in the position the Cavaliers have now. Especially after the Boozer debacle.
I totally disagree with you, Andrew. Dan Gilbert knew full well that he and Lebron were not speaking and that their relationship was tenuous,at best. That means, so long Cavaliers. I am leaving. Dan should have had his own plan B ready in the event Lebron made a move. Very short-sight on Dan’s part.
@Frowns: If those were LeBron James’ true intentions, to look at all offers. Then he could have said “Hey Mr. Gilbert, I’ve been here for 7 years, I see the immediate future of this team. I think it’s time I move on and play with another organization.” That could have been said the day after Game 6 against Boston, because The Cavs and LeBron James could have been negotiating.
Instead, he made the whole thing all about him. Holding these joke meetings with billionaire owners in tee shirts and gym shorts. Don’t act like LeBron James was really being a professional and trying to make the best decision for himself. He wanted all the attention possible and couldn’t get enough of it.
Also, The Cavs had a deal in place with Toronto right around the deadline last year to land Bosh IF James would sign an extension. He refused, so that tells me he wasn’t really about winning. He was about getting his and making sure all the attention was placed solely on what he was doing starting on July 1st, 2010.
Question……How many games did the Cavs..NOT sell out when Lebron was here? Are we absolutely sure, DOLAN,pay attention here, that money doesnt follow money???
@ Frowns
To state that last summer’s Bron-a-palooza was not objectively pre-planned, tells me one thing; that you don’t/didn’t follow the NBA that closely until around the Cavs were in the playoffs. The whole thing was a joke, not even retrospectively, but in the present, while it was going on. I believe you referred to it as “stupid time” on your blog.
For one, I was convinced once I heard that his decision was to be announced on live TV that he was gone. The whole spectacle was designed to garner as much attention as possible for LeBron, and to say otherwise is to be ignorant of things, which if not written in stone, are at least patently obvious. i.e. The aforementioned Chris Bosh trade. (See also, the failed Trevor Ariza signing)
Even if Lebron said he hated Cleveland, you think you’d trade your best player en-route to another 60 win season? Nuggets have no chance this year. Situation couldn’t be more different.
Good points throughout. Must correct one misconception: Knicks are NOT perfectly set up to add Chris Paul, Dwight Howard or Deron Williams. It appears, instead, that it will be impossible to add any of them. First, the long term deals of Melo and Amare alone almost put them over the cap. Each of those three will want max money, and the Knicks won’t have it to spend. Second, there are no longer any assets on the Knicks roster that are of any value to NO, ORL or UTA in a sign and trade. Third, even if there were players of value that were desired, their combined contracts would not be within the percentage to match salaries. And forget about the Knicks offering draft picks; they’re gone now. Fourth, all of the dollar figures — and ability to spend — will likely be reduced in the new CBA.
LeBron and Carmello are both co**suckers. I’m not sure which one’s worse, but they certainly fall in the same category
It’s OK guys Boston is still good so no way Miami wins this year. Oh yeah and Chicago and New York are rising again too.
I agree with the guys that say the cavs hands were tied. You cannot justify trading away the best player possibly in the league (at the time at least) mid season when you have the best record. That would be against the whole mission of the franchise. The writing was obviously on the door that LBJ was gone, but fans here were too narrow sighted trying to be hopeful. Ariza, reported trades that were not completed due to LBJ not signing an extension all pointed before the boston series that he was booked out. Ok, nothing in paper, but read between the lines.
@47 – I never thought in my wildest dreams that I would be praying for a Celtic, Bulls, or Lakers title. That alone makes me sick.
(on a side note: Go Spurs Go. At least they are a smaller market team with a superstar that stuck with them.)