Browns Yield in Battle of Ohio
December 19, 2010Ballin’ Out of Control: Anderson Varejao
December 20, 2010While We’re Waiting is like a trusty pooch bringing you the morning paper. Except that it’s not really a dog. But it does bring the news. WFNYish material from around the web to tide you over until the day begins. And without all the slobber. It’s a win/win really. Got something we should see? Send it to the tips email- tips@waitingfornextyear.com.
On Mangini. You may not like it, he neither calls for his head nor makes apology- “If the 2010 Cleveland Browns season continues its tumble, Eric Mangini may once again have to bear the weight of spittle-infused media rants and the hometown boos of the Browns faithful. I can hear the beast beginning to stir. Along the way, someone will invariably cross the line, and go after Eric Mangini the person. But they’ll be wrong.” [McBride/The OBR]
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Apparently the Buckeyes have found themselves a good one. You can’t call them keepers anymore- “In front of a regional CBS audience, Sullinger blew up for 30 points and 19 rebounds in 30 minutes of action erasing any doubts as to exactly who is the best freshman in the country.” [Eleven Warriors]
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Positive thinking about Michael Brantley- “Last season Brantley made contact on 96.2% of the pitches in the zone and only swung and missed at 2.7% of the pitches he saw. Those are fantastic numbers. But it is worth looking at what Brantley actually does with his contact skills. For one, Brantley’s excellent walk-rates have not yet translated to the big league level (>11% in the minors, <7% in Cleveland). Second, Brantley’s batting line actually improved as his strikeout rate increased late in last season. It is possible Brantley makes contact too frequently, bringing with it the penalty of too often making poor contact.” [Let’s Go Tribe]
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You may have already seen this video. Danny Woodhead undercover trying to sell his own jersey. “Too short.” Good stuff. [Shutdown Corner]
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Mudcats to become Cleveland’s new ‘High A’affiliate- [Carolina News Observer]
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A reader sent this in last week asking if it was “too early” to begin thinking about Free Agents. My immediate reaction was yes, with more season to be played and uncertainty with the CBA… and then I saw he was trying to replace John “the Turnstile” St. Clair. I’m in. [Pete Prisco/CBS Sports]
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Finally, imagine trying to be the Browns PR representative on days like today. Some of my favorite spin tweets-
“#Browns K Phil Dawson has now made 250 career field goals”
“Rookie QB Colt McCoy’s 132.6 rating is the second-highest by a #Browns rookie and the 21st highest ever by a Brown in a single-game”
“The #Browns are the only team in the #NFL to not give up 30 or more points in any game this season.”
20 Comments
With all due repeact to Sullinger who is fantastic, Kyrie Irving’s toe issue makes this battle for best freshman a whole lot less exciting.
Selby sure looked good for Kansas over the weekend but that was only one game and it was at home.
McCoy will likely be the answer. He is cool, calm and has such a high ceiling. We’re not there yet, clearly; but with AJ Green (fingers crosses) and some other pieces…we will be.
Bye-bye Eric.
@3 one can only hope it’s time that mediocrity comes to an end. The coaching and play is far to inconsistent for a team at this stage. The only savior for Mangini will be, like others have said, is if Daboll is canned and replaced with an actual offensive coordinator. Colt needs a tutor not someone who probably knows less offense then he does now.
@2 I agree. We need AJ Green and yesterdays loss only helps us when it come to being able to draft him. I saw he was #3 on someone’s board. I just hope someday soon I can stop justifying loses with the hope of getting a higher draft pick.
Well, if we’re firing Daboll we better hire Jesus Christ. I dont know who else will be able to run an offense with No WRs, No RT, No RG, A fumble prone RB, and a rookie QB.
AJ would look phenomenal in a Browns uni. Also as a 2nd or 3rd rounder did anyone see Jerrel Jernigan go beast mode all over Ohio U? I wouldn’t mind seeing that guy in orange and brown either….
@JK
You are the only person I have ever seen who is attempting to stand up for Daboll. I commend your bravery and understand that our offense is not yet a powerhouse, but I don’t see your point.
First and foremost, our wide receivers do much better when they have a chance to catch the ball (e.g. when Colt is throwing to them). The fact that McCoy can go 19/25 with Robiskie gaining 82 yards proves that our receivers aren’t that bad. It is not like our receivers are dropping the ball all of the time; we simply never threw to them because of poor quarterback play (not Daboll’s fault) and Daboll/Mangini’s ridiculously conservative play-calling where we go into ball-control mode after gaining a 3 point advantage in the middle of the first quarter.
Second, the right side of our line isn’t the best but it certainly isn’t as bad as everyone claims. The Browns are an average team in terms of sacks allowed (even with the immobile Delhomme) and are toward the top in rushing to the right side (check out the ratings on NFL.com for “rush right”).
Regarding the running back position, you make a great point that Hillis has a a fumbling problem. That said, Daboll hasn’t done a terrific job protecting Hillis by using other running backs (we never used Harrison, then traded him for a warm body – the latter is not on Daboll, but the former is). Daboll also runs Hillis over-and-over again in a predictable way until defenses stack against us. It must be tough to hang onto the ball when everyone on the field knows who is getting it and where that man is likely to be running.
Finally, that rookie quarterback that you mention has a 93 rating for the year and a 132.6 rating in the last game. How is that rookie quarterback such a liability for Daboll?
Thinking back to the beginning of the season, most of us were “not going to get our hopes up” and were “hoping for visible improvement.” None of us would have guessed that wins would come against NE and NO, nor would we have known that KC and TB would be vastly improved. Most of us were predicting a 5 win season at best (I said 8-8 and was told that I was crazy by my friends). Here’s the thing. Isn’t that exactly we got? The reality is, this team needs a few more pieces to contend for the division. Put the pitchforks down.
@ Carolina News Observer
. . . and the Indians become the “high AAA” farm team for the rest of the MLB. [the historycat disgruntled fan news]
Draft talk, lovin it.
What if we drafted Peterson or Amukamara. We need help in 6 of our front 7 (5 of the front 7 is they’d just play Rogers at DE). BUT, we’re not going to fix that in one draft. I think drafting another corner would allow Ryan’s defense to blitz more. We could play man on the outside with Haden and Peterson/Amukamara and give Ward/(insert LB) more freedom to blitz. Plus with a deep WR draft and the recent trend of WR slipping in the draft we could get a stellar WR in the second round.
/observationizing
sealed-
Look, Im no Daboll fan, but he has been good enough to keep around atleast another year. In some games (Patriots/Jets) he was brilliant and a large part of the reason why we won. Also, if we can get just a little friggin consistency? What does it help changing all the coords and HC every other year? Do you really think that Daboll is holding our team back? Come on, get a grip.
Obviously the WRs are better when they get an opportunity. But wouldnt you say that atleast part of the reason why they don’t get a lot of “opportunity” is because they’re, well, not that good? Hard for a QB to find the WR when the WR isin’t open. Mass/Robo are #3 WRs, bottomline. I could see Mass MAYBE squeezing into a #2 at somepoint but thats it. Most teams wouldn’t even have Robo on their roster, he’s bad man.
That stat is extremely skewed imo. First of all, it seems like all we do is run to the right, so theres your “run right” stat hype. But honestly I know its not just me but they are holding or jumping offsides it seems like every play. J StC is one of the worst olinemen Ive ever seen.
Daboll hasnt done a good job protecting Hillis cuz thats all we have. If you want any chance of winning with this team it’s going to be mostly Hillis left, Hillis right, Hillis up the middle. When Daboll did try to use Harrison he was terrible. I disagree with your statement “It must be tough to hang onto the ball when everyone on the field knows who is getting it and where that man is likely to be running.” That has absolutly nothing to do with it. I think PH would even tell you that he shouldnt be fumbling the ball that much and it has nothing to do with him being over used or worn out.
That rookie QB lead us to two TDs agains the 2-11 Bengals. Wow. On the first drive he should’ve thrown 2 INTs before throwing the TD pass. He did a great job of managing the game but he is a rookie dude. He is obviously a liability to Daboll and something that he has to keep in mind this year.
@MattyFos
Agreed. I’m thinking DL/LB, WR, CB
@JK
Thanks for your reply. I love talking about these issues as I currently don’t live in Cleveland and I am not surrounded by Browns fans.
Why would you want to keep an offensive coordinator “around at least another year.” Why settle for mediocrity? I will admit that he called good games against the Patriots and Jets, but he is incapable of making adjustments. I’m all for consistency, but I don’t support consistency for the sake of consistency. We need to right people on the staff, and I don’t see any evidence that we have them. Everyone in favor of keeping Mangini argues this consistency position as though the Browns change coaches every year. With the exception of Palmer, that is not the case: Belichick (1991-1995), Palmer (1999-2000), Davis (2001-2004), Robiskie (2004 interim), Crennel (2005-2008), Mangini (2009-present). Precisely which one of those coaches should have had more time with the Browns? And yes, I do think that Daboll is holding back our team.
I realize that stats can be skewed, but at least I try to find some sort of data that support my position. All you do is tell me to “get a grip” and make unsupported claims. Oh, and if you think Robiskie and MoMass are that bad, you can thank Mangini for overriding his well-respected, hand-picked GM for drafting those receivers.
Regarding rush right, if our line on the right side is so bad then why is Daboll running right? That’s on Daboll. Again, at least I try to find data instead of parroting popular opinions without support.
Regarding Hillis, that’s where we disagree. McCoy had an excellent game and proved that he has the tools to move the ball down the field. Why not let Colt throw the ball or scramble? I’m particularly thinking of redzone situations where it is painfully obvious that we are going to run Hillis off-tackle. Also, why is Vickers on the bench so much when we run Hillis?
I really can’t believe that you are serious when you say that McCoy is a liability. He is playing extremely well right now. The Bengals have excellent cornerbacks and are pretty solid at defending the pass. What more could you want from the quarterback position in the last game? I don’t understand why you would rather make excuses for Daboll instead of recognizing that McCoy has played very well this season.
@ #6 – he can’t hit a curveball. So what good is he as a coach?
Ty-son Cla-bo!
Browns still need 2 receivers, a pass rusher, another RB, CB too. But people still say Mangini is the problem. So if he is gone next year and they still are a below average team then what will everyone say?
I’m not trying to say I hate Colt. I actually like the kid but when you’re working with a rookie qb he is somewhat of a libabily just from an expirence standpoint. I hope he’ll be who everyone thinks he is & Ill be the first to admit he is a nice surprise. Im just saying I think this team is just as good with Daboll then with they are with whoever they hire since he is almost surely gone.
See, JK, when you say that “this team is just as good with Daboll then with they are with whoever they hire since he is almost surely gone.”, there’s more to it. You’re claiming not only that Daboll isn’t at fault for all the problems (I think we can all agree on that), but that he is BETTER than many/most of the people who would replace him. So if you think that, why do you think that? What exactly has led you to think that he’s decent/good/better than the next guy? Is it the fact that he’s called, maybe, 3 good games over the course of almost two whole seasons?
Yeah, I don’t think the problems are all his fault, either. But the fact that he’s shown almost nothing good to me means I want him out. What has he shown you that’s good? Note that I said “good”, not mediocre or average or adequate. He caught a very good team sleeping (NE) and called a silly, trick-filled other game (NO), and that’s enough to keep him?
Well, guess what? The offense has been awful, stale, and predictable this year and last. In that span we’ve had a ton of different starting QBs, a bunch of starting WRs (count em up if you don’t believe me), 3 starting RBs, and a bunch of TEs, not to mention the various Oline players. What’s the common denominator? An OC who doesn’t adjust during the game and has exactly one game to point to saying he’s not predictable. It sounds like your biggest arguments for keeping him are that:
1. It’s not all his fault and he could do better with better personnel
2. Consistency
If only there was any evidence at all for #1, maybe I’d agree with you. But he hasn’t shown me anything that says “I can be much better with better personnel.”
I’m not a fan of Daboll, and would not be terribly saddened by his departure. Still, I think a few words in his defense are in order.
He has had to scheme around 3 quarterbacks with wildly divergent skill sets. The first was a field general who looked down the field and had a reputation for working through his progressions, but was totally immobile and tended to force things when pressured. The second was a career backup with great mobility, but who only reliably through outlets. The 3rd is an intelligent rookie with fine mobility and excellent accuracy, but lacks experience and is so patient waiting for things to develop that he gets sacked frequently(this might be related to the experience thing). Each QB needs a different approach in game-planning.
Compounding this difficulty is the status of our receiving corps. MoMass, Robiskie and Cribbs were supposed to be our starting three. If we don’t hold trying to learn with DA and Quinn against them, this is just an extended rookie season for all three. Even so, MoMass and Robi are underwhelming at this point. Cribbs has been hobbled for much of the season due to the concussion and his toes. Stuckey has done some good work in spots, but realistically our WRs have been a non factor all season. The only bright spots have been Watson and Moore, before he hurt his hip. Most offensive coordinators will agree that their job is much easier if they have more more than one guy who can catch the ball.
The running situation is the only bright spot. Vickers might be the best blocking fullback in the NFL. I see no need to belabor how great Hillis is. Harrison pretty much quit on the Browns. His last game, he carried 6 times for a total of 6 yards rushing. Holmgren asked him if he still wanted to play for us after the game, and he was shipped to Philly right afterwards.
Daboll’s problem is how to come up with a viable gameplan based around a QB with limitations, one running threat, and one receiver. Once opponents got tape, they realized that Man on the receivers and 8 in the Box was the way to go. I think the recent trend of rushing Peyton without a lead blocker is an adjustment to force defenders to pull one more out of the box, but the trade-off isn’t working. Daboll is still trying to find ways around these limitations, witness that crazy formation we used on that touchdown pass. Has anybody even named it yet?
Lastly, Daboll’s career is still in its infancy. I seem to vaguely remember another young coach who was hated in Cleveland. He wasn’t creative, couldn’t adjust, didn’t recognize talent, etc, etc. He’s become pretty successfull in Foxboro. What’s his name again?
Just a few thoughts, for what they’re worth.