Week 10 Open Thread: Browns vs. Jets
November 14, 2010While We’re Waiting… Brady, Braylon and Brian Blutarski
November 15, 2010
It is good to be upset at losing today’s heart-breaker to the Jets 26-20 in overtime. That’s what real fans of real NFL teams feel after losing a game like this. I was really disappointed just like the rest of you. So I am glad that you feel that way. Then again, if that negativity carries over into Monday, after the game the Browns played today, I think you should be ashamed of yourself.
The Browns played an incredibly gutty game today against the Jets. They survived early injuries to Sheldon Brown, Scott Fujita and Josh Cribbs to find a way to tie it in the fourth quarter. They survived a 10-minute, 19-play, 65-yard drive by the Jets to open the third quarter.  They got lucky that Nick Folk missed the 24 yard field goal at the end of that drive.  The Browns defense deserves acclaim for finding a way to get off the field on the ensuing drive too after the Browns’ offense couldn’t manage anything more than a three and out. The Browns defense was on the field for almost 13 minutes of the third quarter.  They were bruised and battered, yet somehow they looked the Jets in the face time and again and basically told them that they wouldn’t be able to put the game out of reach on this day.
The Browns shot themselves in the foot with turnovers. Hillis lost another fumble (4th overall and 2nd in two weeks) even if it didn’t cost the Browns any points. Chansi Stuckey fumbled in overtime as the Browns were nearing field goal range. The Browns know they can’t commit turnovers and they need to take care of the ball better. Still, isn’t there a little part of you that feels like it is just bad luck to some extent? Both fumbles happened on plays where the ball-carrier was desperately fighting for extra yardage.  Additionally, the Browns even found a way to get the ball back after Stuckey’s fumble in overtime.
Ultimately, I know the Browns came up short, but this is the point.
The Browns lost this game as a team today. They also overcame a ton of adversity in somehow finding a way to tie it on an inspiring drive with just under a minute to play in regulation. Isn’t that worth something? Even in a loss, I say emphatically “Yes!”
The Browns were out-manned stepping onto the field today in terms of overall talent. Â That was before they were decimated by injuries in the first half. And yet this team found a way to tie it. They had chances to win in overtime before finally succumbing to an improbable touchdown pass to Santonio Holmes. Â It was a breakdown and you would have liked to see the Browns force Nick Folk into kicking a field goal on a day where he missed three.
Yes, you should be disappointed in the loss, but you should also be extremely proud. You should be proud of this team’s unwillingness to quit. You should be proud of rookies Colt McCoy and Joe Haden who made big-time plays that gave the team a chance to win late. You should be proud of Peyton Hillis for facing the adversity of fumbling and still going for 82 yards and a touchdown against a very good defense. You should be proud of Ben Watson for being a sure-handed target all day and in the clutch. You should be proud of Massaquoi for finding a way to get open for the game-tying touchdown against some of the best corners in the league.
Today it wasn’t good enough against one of the top five best teams in the NFL. It wasn’t good enough in the third straight game of playing top five teams. You know what, though? The Browns went 2-1 in this stretch, and arguably the best of the three teams, the Jets, needed almost all of 80 minutes to figure out how to defeat the Browns. The Browns never played not to lose and tried to win it up to the very last minute of the game. They gave it everything and left absolutely everything they had out on the field for themselves, their coaches and most importantly us.
It wasn’t good enough this time.  It is always difficult to come up short, but it doesn’t make you a bad fan to have a little bit of pride in this team even in a week where they lose.  The Browns shouldn’t hang their heads long as they prepare for a winnable game next week against Jacksonville.  After this stretch of games versus New Orleans, New England and New York, the Browns know that they can compete with absolutely anybody in the NFL.  Anyone.
—————————-
As always we will have much more about this game throughout the week.
(In case anyone out there cares, the chosen soundtrack while I was writing this post after the tough loss was a band called Silent Drive and their album Love is Worth It.)
81 Comments
Was our O the problem today? has it been a problem for the last 3-4 games? Im not saying we dont NEED a top WR, but right now its not the Achilles heel. Not having a big time playmaker on D, someone that can take the QB down consistently, is the big problem. The 10 and 8 minute drives kept them out of the game. They are old and slow in the LB core and DL. Getting a top DE (DT for a 34 DE) and or a top OLB should be keys for the draft. Looking at next year, they need to continue to get younger on the OL, find a solution to spell Hillis (Hardesty may be it and im willing to find that out if thats the game plan) and they must MUST MUST find some sort of game changer on D.
Why is everyone so down on wright after this game? Was it just that last play? He did not have a terrible play unless anyone wants to point anything specific out. Wright had a zone coverage and Holmes was on a quick slant. No CB gets that pass, and after there were 2 others that could have made tackles and did not.
@49: I definitely agree.
We’re average on offense due to Hillis and McCoy. When we face a team weak against the run, I never expect to lose.
We’re very good on D, however. I play a lot of strategy games and I try to be dominant in one aspect and ok in the rest in those games. Seems to me we should draft to have dominant D (which let’s be real, will only take 1 good pass rusher) before we start shoring up our offense.
But then… I’m not a coach.
@bobby, I do agree those 8+ minute drives by the Jets were just excruciating to watch. Not sure what would be better: a Ray Lewis type LB or Polumalu type S, but we definitely need a playmaker on that side of the ball in a bad way. Even so and without, they held their own today and gave the offense a chance.
I still maintain a top flight WR is a priority. Especially for a young QB. Especially and maybe even more so, to take some burden off of an emerging star at RB.
Depending on how the CBA shakes out, I see no reason why either of these needs couldn’t be addressed via draft or free agency. I truly believe we are 2 exceptional players away from perennial contention for the next few years.
(Yeah, I’m officially sold on Colt).
@tsunami, love your posts. i agree with all your points, but i’m still ok with this loss. (now.) (it was pretty devastating to lose the tie in the moment.)
here’s why (quoting myself from my post yesterday): tomorrow is big on many levels. no sneaking up on someone (saints), no bye week prep over a soft 6-1 team (pats). after the gb shutout and their lucky win at detroit, we should get the best the jets have and a no excuses evaluation of the browns afterward.
the no-excuse eval shows that we’re not elite, but just a year away. i hate 3-6 as much as you. i think we can still compete for a playoff slot. but i have to factor in our schedule when looking at our record and … my god … check this out: bucs (6-3), chiefs (5-3), bengals, ravens (6-3), falcons (7-2), steelers (6-2), saints (6-3), pats (6-2), jets (7-2).
meanwhile, i like the progress we’ve shown this year. here’s where we are:
* capable of playing with and sometimes beating the best teams in NFL;
* settled on a qb for the now and for the future;
* building a true TEAM FIRST culture (witness the dozen+ players stopping by to support chansi);
* finally leveraging the strengths of the 3-4 defense for the first time since RAC installed it;
* creating an identity as smashmouth, ball-control offense (which will look a lot better when hardesty spells hills as opposed to clayton/bell).
nope, i don’t think we’re good enough to carp about not stealing a game from a top 5 team. i wanted to see if we could match up, straight-up, against the jets. they were the better team, but we took them to the edge. we can build on this. 🙂
Ask the Detroit Lions what an overtime loss to the Jets is worth.
Maybe I’m being a pessimist when I look at our running game and saying we need to draft or feature Cribbs, but isn’t Hardesty unproven except in the pre-season, and injury prone (I mean, he’s blown his ACL twice now, right?!)?
@55, jimk: exactly kinda, sorta, what I was thinking, just couldn’t put it into the words that you effectively did. Thanks.
You are so right in evaluating the level of opponents. Not like I take strength of schedule for granted, but jeeez, this was a tough stretch. And this team started putting it together in the midst of it and won a few tough games in the process.
Some say the N.O. game was a fluke because of trick plays or whatever, but I say it takes quite a detailed attention span (credit to coaching) to pull off said trick plays, and there is no reason why it SHOULDN’T be a part of this team’s identity. I remember admiring Mularkey as the O’ coordinator for the Steelers always pulling off one or two ‘gotcha’ plays a game effectively. It keeps the opposing D off balance and I’m all for it.
O, and how has no one brought up the botched onside? It didnt even look like we were prepared for that. All Haden has to do is sprint to the 40 and stop, but instead everyone is running as if its a real KO. We should of had that and that changes the rest of the game completely (assuming they get points).
Yeah, that was a complete lack of attention to detail on the onside kick attempt (I blame coaching). It seemed Haden didn’t even know it was coming, but it really should have worked. Do you think they got timid after that failed attempt??
Yes, I do realize I am contradicting myself from previous posts.
@57chris — agreed on hardesty. i’m just reading the positive spin from berea about his recovery and he is indeed unproven. i want to believe, you know? (but we could suit up kevin mack and get more production than the current backup rbs.)
@58han — agreed that ‘trick plays’ can be part of the identity. good news is that mangini ought to know this. imo, the best OC for using ‘tricks’ in recent memory was working with him at the pats. charlie weis was masterful with those calls.
Weis??? Meh….I’ll pass. Or maybe your just saying he has that semi-experience?? I’ll buy that.
As much as I’ve completely written off Dabol, I say give him another year with a full set of predetermined weapons (McCoy, Hillis, WR#1, Moore, etc.) to see what he can or cannot do.
You are right though, in that at the end of the day, it all comes down to Mangini. As of now, today, 11/14/2010, I believe he needs a player or two and could possibly be the Belichek that we really never had.
It didn’t look like anyone knew about the onside kick other than Phil Dawson. On the bright side it seemed like a great kick from Phil as far as onside kicks go. Maybe he thought about kicking it onside at the last second so he could run over and recover it himself and look like a hero!…Reggie Hodges could do it and maybe break a few tackles.
I will say though, whenever Dawson comes in to kick a field goal I am always confident it’s gonna be good.
@jimkanicki – Before the Browns played the Saints, I was happy with their progress. I expected them to win 7 games this year and I have been pleasantly surprised with their progress. So far, Colt McCoy has a high 80s passer rating with only 1 decent WR. the defense has been a THOUSAND times better than I expected. I just think that it’s very dangerous to make play calling that indicates you think you are as good as the other team and that over time luck will even out and you will come out on top means that you better be ready to take some heat if you lose, instead of basking in the warm light of a moral victory.
If the Browns are inferior to the awesome Jets and should be proud of how they fought then that means they should have TAKEN A SHOT TO WIN, because it means they AREN’T as good as the Jets (ESPECIALLY NOT DOWN CRIBBS, FUJITA, and BROWN)
I usually don’t get this angry about the Browns but that 3rd quarter was like getting beat over the head for a half hour straight with one lesson: “YOU CAN’T STOP US!” After the 3 and out following the missed FG I thought, it is really going to take a minor miracle to win this game. A pick 6 or something. When McCoy made those throws and holy cow Evan Moore made that catch i was like…this is INSANE. And then the play calling goes back to this “yeah, we can just straight up play our normal game and beat this team” And ironically, despite THAT mindset in the punting, they refused to go back to Hillis?! I mean, yeah, he’s not going to do anything when they put 9 guys on the line, but they stopped doing that after McCoy’s last minute drive. MOVE THE CHAINS, GET FIRST DOWNS, GO FOR THE WIN.
btw, I agree with your points also. I am happy with the culture they are building, (mostly) happy with the discipline on offense, happy with getting the most out of the talent they have, and happy with the young talent (minus robiskie)
The desperately need 2 WR, a CB, and some depth on the lines. But they can’t be taken lightly anymore.
And right now the Pats are DOMINATING the Steelers in Pittsburg. Makes me even more crazy we lost today.
David didn’t beat Goliath in arm wrestling. He brought a sling-shot to a sword fight. There are two lessons: 1.) Davids CAN beat Goliaths now and then. and 2.) They don’t do it by trying to beat Goliath and his own game.
1. Browns took a top 5 team into OT and fought hard, showed promise.
2. Beyond Booing like mad, no enraged Dawg-Pounder did anything asinine so the media could have a field day.
3. Stonehands didn’t score a TD.
4. We were not expecting to make the playoffs, right?
5. Hey, McCoy could be the real deal? No jinx, no jinx, no jinx
I think it was a (very disappointing) lost battle but a gain overall because the browns DO look like they are improving. I do not think they were capable of this last year.
Next year, always NEXT year.
I agree with Craig. Being a fan isn’t always easy – sometimes it is luck.
Tsunami- I think you are mistaken saying the browns need 2 WRs. Cribbs is a legitimate wide out now, add in MoMass and Stuckey and they are simply a #1 away. Moore should definitely be relied on more as shown by 2 clutch catches setting up 2 TDs in the last 2 games (down the sideline vs. NE). I dont think you can look at the O and blame the loss on them because of a lack of a #1. Sure, it would certainly “help” but I do not think it is necessary nor should it be a top priority. We have done a decent job recently using our personnel, but I think there are more mismatches that should be attacked by the O. I wouldnt mind setting Moore up as the #1, MoMass 2, Cribbs/stuckey 3 and Watson out there as the TE.
On D, they need a pass rusher. Roth and Bernard are good 2ndary guys, but they need more help getting to the QB consistently and bringing him down. Thats what ultimately lost the game today. I like our DBs, though I would like to see Elam upgraded.
to clarify- Roth and Bernard are good 2ndary sack players, but there is a need for a clear #1 who gets 15+ a season.
@67
This website’s name sums up the frustrated Cleveland fan… We are tired of “waiting for next year” when we have the ability to be good now. You can feel proud about all the good things that happened today (and there were plenty) but the Browns still lost. And this isn’t the first time this season that we have had the chance to win the game and haven’t. You talk of next year, but if the ball would have rolled our way all season we could be talking about THIS year (playoffs, etc)
The Browns are a good team RIGHT NOW. They have looked great against the best in the league. They just aren’t winning. Great teams win. Playoff teams win.
I just want the Browns to win this year. Next year scares me too much. Kind of like 2008 after an awesome 2007 season.
Come on. There’s no way after the total mess of last year that we should even be considering playoff expectations. It’s disappointing to me how many fans (not just unique to the Browns of course) are so impatient they fail to appreciate improvement and success. There is lots of discussion about developing a winning culture and stability, yet many people comment as if losing to one of the best teams in football given a rookie 3rd string QB and a couple key injuries on both sides of the ball is a huge disappointment. It isn’t.
The problem that I think too many Browns fans have is that we immediately panic. One or two bad games (which this wasn’t even a bad game) and we immediately freak out and call for the quarterback and head coach’s heads. Just last week McCoy played a hell of a game and some commenter shows up with “well… sure he played 3 games against 3 of the top teams in the league, they won 2, and he never turned the ball over…. but he hasn’t proven anything TO ME because he hasn’t run a 2 minute drill against a top defense with the game on the line”. Now, notwithstanding that he actually DID that today, those expectations are ridiculous. We should be hoping McCoy plays decent, gets like 6+ ypa, and doesn’t turn the ball over more than once or maybe twice a game. Instead he’s been WAY better than that and yet instead of being pleasantly surprised as fans, I just feel like the instinct of many fans is to wait til he has one clunker and then panic and say we should draft a QB in the first round next year.
This was an ABOVE AVERAGE effort today by a team with BELOW AVERAGE talent. Teams simply don’t make the playoffs with as much talent as the Browns have right now, unless they’re in the NFC West. The Browns can play with anyone on any given week, but they aren’t an 11-5 or 12-4 team if the season starts anew today. Whether you like it or not, it takes time for a team to become a stable contending power which I think is what we all want. And 2007 was fun, but the Browns also got super lucky and played a horribly soft schedule. If we’re shooting for better than that, we ought to know it doesn’t happen overnight and doesn’t turn on a single play, good or bad.
CRAIG, man up and be disappointed.
Yea, we played great. Just to watch this game was worth my monthly cable bill.
HOWEVER, we need to steal a game sometime. We werent the better team today, but we still could have pulled it off.
This, Tampa, and KC will haunt us the rest of the way out.
The Browns, and the fans, need to stop taking solace in mental wins
wow, im drunk. *moral victory
69 is exhibit A of silly expectations: a 15+ perennial sack guy.
Do you know how many players had over 15 sacks last year in the entire league?
One. Elvis Dumervil. He got a LOT of money and is now injured.
It takes a full system to generate those numbers. Look at the Steelers–every LB spot is a Pro Bowl type player and their D line is very talented. One guy or another gets the numbers year to year but it isn’t Woodley being so much better than Wimbley here. I think it’s more that the whole system in PIT is so much further along that their first round picks on D always look better when they are playing with good players. Just like the Colts have never had a bust pick on their offense because it’s hard to be a bust with Manning running the show.
Tangent on the pass rusher note – I’m still pretty sick myself over the Browns picking Wimbley looking for that edge rusher instead of Haloti Ngata and handing him to the Ravens with the next pick. Pass rushers are “sexy” picks but a lot of good ones can be found later on in the draft (see Matthews, Clay and Harrison, James). Elite linemen and DBs rarely seem to fall very far though.
Steal a game sometime ?
I guess the past 2 were just given to us.
@74, no we earned those wins. BIG difference. Im talking about stealing a win where we werent the better team. Whether everyone wants to admit it or not, the Browns were outplayed today. We played great, but the Jets were simply better. A team that misses 3 FGs deserves to win. We deserve credit for hanging in there and having a chance to steal it, but the Jets won today.
Whats great is that we’re good enough to play against anyone in the NFL. Just hoping we could actually steal a few wins in addition to the games where we outplay the other team and actually deserve to win.
As I said in preseason, my goals for this team were: beat the teams you should, and hang tough with the ones you shouldn’t.
My 6-10 prediction still looks good, and I’m pleased as punch with the progress this team has made.
@ 75-there are 14 guys with 7+ sacks right now. Bernard is tied for 19 (with 5 others) with 5.5. Matthews, the leader, has 10.5 in just over half a season. Getting a guy that can consistently make plays, and get to the QB should be a huge priority in a 34.
@ Foghorn – Mental wins are my favorite wins.
Some of you guys are missing the point: Be disapointed that we lost. Be overjoyed that our team is in a position to fight this hard against a legit superbowl contender.