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January 21, 2010Holmgren Report: Quarterback
January 21, 2010
With the NBA trade deadline one month away, the rumors continue to swirl. Latest Cavs-related bit to hit the wire comes from ESPN’s Marc Stein who attempts to link Cleveland to a possible deal with Philadelphia for Andre Iguodala.
On paper, Iquodala is just what the Cavaliers would need. AI2, not to be confused with his teammate Allen Iverson, averages 18 points, seven rebounds, six assists, two steals and just over one three-point field goal per game. He’s an amazing athlete that can throw down with the best of them. His career field goal percentage is 46.4 percent and he would fit in well in terms of perimeter defense – think Stephen Jackson with less propensity for in-game insanity and strip club gun fights. He’s great at getting to the line and converts at a fairly high rate.
But here is where we end the “pros” involved with Iguodala. To get those 18 points per contest, “Iggy” requires nearly 15 shots. His eFG% is .431 – .414 on jump shots. For comparison purposes, Washington’s Antawn Jamison’s eFG% is .535 with .448 beyond the 15-foot range. Oh, and Iguodala also has a little bit of baggage in the form of four years and $56.3 million left on his contract.
But as Stein says, the Cavaliers are looking for a big man – specifically Jamison and/or Indiana’s Troy Murphy. Iguodala could realistically see time at the power forward if needed, but the root of his game comes from the small forward position. Coincidentally, Cleveland already has a fairly decent small forward in LeBron James. Jamsion’s contract, in comparison to Iguodala’s, is for less money and fewer years – yet this is a hang-up in a potential acquisition. Granted, Iguodala is considerably younger and may be more Mike Brown’s style when it comes to the defensive side of the ball.
Of course, as with all trades, the flip side is what it would take to get any player in a deal. If Washington is requiring Zydrunas Ilgauskas, JJ Hickson and a draft pick, but Philadelphia only wants cap relief, this deal may raise a few eyebrows. Regardless, this is only one of the multiple rumors which the Cavaliers will find themselves as a possibility thanks to Dan Gilbert’s willingness to spend coupled with Cleveland’s desire for a title.
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Nets putting breaks on Harris trade talk? [ESPN/TrueHoop]
(Photo by David Dow/NBAE via Getty Images)
44 Comments
Three way deal. Jamison to Cleveland, Ilgauskas’s expiring contract to Philly, Iggy to Washington. They need a new franchise guy to build around after Ted Leonsis (hopefully) guts the team. Now if only the ESPN trade machine had any real clout….
If the Cavaliers could get LeBron to commit to playing the 4, and then put Iguodala at the 3, I suppose there’s a slight chance it could work. But Iguodala’s inefficient game just doesn’t fit well with what the Cavs try to do, and I fear it would really throw this team off as it would probably take at least 30 games to settle into a groove with such a different player in the rotation.
Spot on analysis Scott. The better deal is definitely for Jamison if he’s available. Though, I would consider Iguadola over Murphy if it comes to that as Iguadola is a far more versatile and athletic player.
My feeling on the Cavs making a trade is this – they desperately need a legit 3rd or (depending on what you think of Mo) 2nd dependable scorer. Iguadola does not really fit that bill. Jamsion does. Murphy definitely doesn’t.
My impression of Iguodala has always been that he’s overrated because he’s the best player on a bad team.
@Roosevelt
I get the same impression of Troy Murphy, except he’s the 2nd best player. And he peaked 2 seasons ago.
@Roosevelt – I often get that impression about Rudy Gay as well, though a lot of people would love to have him on the Cavs.
The greatest 4 word pairing in the English language: “strip club gun fights.” Every word is beautiful.
this guys got such a bad contract no way we make this deal…
If Iguodala is the best player on your team than your team is going absolutely nowhere. But if he’s the second best… I think he might be a great addition for the Cavs and I especially like it because Iggys prime is in sync with LeBrons. I might seriously consider this deal before acquiring Jamison.
Blech!
There’s a real possibility that the Cavs don’t make a trade this year. Maybe their off-season moves were enough. I know they will get hammered by the media and fans if they don’t do anything, but maybe the best course of action is to … just stay the course.
This team gets nitpicked to death but, with a win tonight, they will have a 4-game lead over Boston for best record in the East, homecourt advantage over the Lakers in a potential finals match-up, and best record in the NBA.
Maybe the team as it is currently built is not the one some fans want, but maybe it’s the team that we need.
I think we’d put Iguodala at the 2, even though he’s not a great shooter. He’s athletic enough to defend those guys. I don’t think we make this deal though… Iguodala just doesn’t make a ton of sense for either the Cavs or the Sixers. I think their fans would absolutely kill their owner if they traded their best player and only got “cap relief” in return.
Bad news about Mo being out, guess Boobie will get his chance to audition for the trade block (if he’s even on it) tonight.
A very realistic reason to get Igoudala…
and I hate to put it this way….
Worst Case Scenario: If we were to lose Lebron this summer, we would be a very mediocre team and we can eventually rebuild with Igoudala, because there is a very slim chance we can attract another star free agent if we lose the King.
Best Case Scenario: He may be the missing piece to multiple championships.
I agree with vengeful pat. Iggy’s 6-6 and 207. Sure he’s got a lot of muscle and is a freak athlete, but I’m sorry, 6-6 and 207 cannot hope to compete with the 6-10 and 240+ PFs out there. I’d much rather see him at the 2. This would allow AP to come off the bench not just as a 2 but also a 3 in some lineups. And a starting lineup with James and Iggy cutting and darting all over the place could be pretty scary. While I think it would be a trade that would benefit the team, i don’t think it would benefit them enough to merit such a big trade. At least not enough as a scoring PF would. However, i will say that locking up a younger costar in Iggy for the next several years may be great incentive for Lebron to stay. After all, what will this team will lose two of its best players in Shaq and Z within the next 1-2 seasons. Just a thought. I don’t think this trade will happen, but i wouldn’t be heartbroken if it did.
I would like to point out though, I’m surprised there’s been no mention of Stoudemire. I guess cause he’s got a player option for next season, so there’s really not point in Phoenix trading him for tax relief on a Z buyout. I’m just surprised no one has been trying to figure out a way it could happen.
um, how about iggy AND jamison? if all philly wants is cap relief, we have wally or lorenzen wright to help with that. and hell, if they insist we take dalembert, sobeit. then we still have Z, JJ, and a pick to send for freeantwan.
…please dont pinch me and wake me up. im enjoying this dream…
plain and simple…..LBJ needs to suck it up and move to the 4. makes this team mirror a magic team that wax’d you guys last year.
but in possible trade situations this rankings 2nd.
1. Jamison trade
2. iggy trade
3. murphy trade.
Some more progessive thinking about our future…
Should we be considering a trade that involves a center like Dalembert? How long is he under contract for? He may be a nice addition for the next few cavs seasons.
Iggy would be a great addition. Can someone say Pippen to LBJ’s Jordan? I think so. He would NEVER draw a double team on our squad and if he does then it leaves Mo/LBJ/Shaq/Andy available to get a dunk/shot. He’s better than Jamison would be, although he fits a different role. Realistically we don’t have much cap space if we trade for anyone, I think Iggy would be the best guy available between Jamison and Iggy.
My first choice is still David West.
Agree with DocZeus. AI is inefficient because he’s the go to scorer and he has Louis Williams setting him up. He’s a freak athlete that loves to slash and draw fouls. If the Cavs can get him I think they have to do that. Plus, both LeBron and Iggy are GANGBUSTERS at the PF this season. http://www.82games.com/0910/09PHI7.HTM
Iggy:
Opponent PER of 10. PER +/- of +14.2.
LeBron:
Opponent PER of 16.9 PER +/- of 24.4 (yes, LeBron’s PER as a PF is 41!!!)
Plus you could trot out a lineup of Mo, Moon, Iggy, LeBron, Varejao fastbreak the living daylights out of the NBA.
Imagine those dunks for a second.
Check this out. The case for Corey Maggette:
[Real GM]
read the bottom
Can’t see how AI here would make sense much like the rumors that had Stephen Jackson coming here possibly. I agree with Stein the Cavaliers need a 4 to provide some much needed inside scoring not another guard who will become yet another jump shooter. The Cavaliers take way to many jump shots the only guys who can drive consistently are LeBron and Delonte.
SDub: The Pippen/Jordan analogy in this case severely undervalues Pippen (as most Pippen/Jordan analogies do). He was one of the best defenders in the league (NBA All-Defense 8 times) and in the year Jordan was gone he led the league in steals, won All-Star MVP, was All-NBA First Team and took the Bulls to 55 wins and the second round by himself.
I can’t see Iggy doing any of that. So far, the only thing they have in common is neither can win a championship by themselves.
@Tsunami:
I see where that argument is going, but the guy conveniently forgot to mention that C-Mag has missed something like 4,325 games in the last 5 years. So i don’t really care how many points you average if your average is only calculated over 3 games. Aside from his rookie year i don’t think he has played in more than 75% of his team’s games.
Iggy’s shooting % will surely improve with the Cavs.. It seems when Lebron is on the court people get better looks… I can’t figure it out.
Don’t freak out about Iggy’s (in)efficiency. Lebron would only make that better.
PG- Mo, DWest
SG- Iggy, Parker
SF- LBJ, Moon
PF- Hickson, Andy
C- Shaq, Z
That’s a pretty intriguing rotation.
Are you kidding me? Andre Iguodala is perfect for cleveland. I would love to have him, infact, i would rather have him than Jamison. He could play the 2. Shaq, powe, james, Iguodala, and williams would be our starting line-up come playoff time. There is no team that would be able to BANG with us in a 7 game series.
No other team could compete. A move like that would make us by-far the toughest team in the league.
And we would only have to give up Z (in hopes to get him back) and J.J Hickson. That would still make our bench one of the best.
Z, Andy, West, Parker, Jawad Williams. Moone and Gipson can be two guys that comes in the game for match-up purposes. To get Iguodala would really make us the Champion this year and even if Lebron leaves, we would still be a 4 or 5 seed in the east year in and year out.
@MattyFos: I think because of the good play of J.Williams that even when moon returns, i think J.Williams will continue to keep his minutes. I think J.Williams is better and i don’t know about you guys but to me, Moon hasn’t been as good as what i expected. I thought he was the answer to our bench problems but now that D.West comes off the bench, we really don’t need moon anymore but i wouldn’t get rid of him so fast because D.West still has a legal problem to deal with.
Cavs should get Iguodala Tho!
Love Iggy on the Cavs. I like him at the 2 like some of you have said. This is a trade that sets up lebron for the future with a young star that kind looks like him in a way, both physically and power of play.
If ferry wants to keep lebron and win, he’ll make this trade instead of an OLD Jamison who can only help out this year.
@Jay- good points.. But I’d just like watching a slam dunk contest between Moon, Iggy, and LBJ.. lol those guys can fly.
I have no idea where Jawan came form this year, but he’s stroking… He and Moon would make a nice player if you could combine them..
@MattyFos: YES! because we still might need Moon for Mickael Pietrus and Gipson for Eddie House. You know, match-up purposes. We can use all the players we got in certain games. I don’t know how Moon will take it if his minutes goes down but i think they will.
Crap, I meant to add this to me #29 comment…
What are we doing next year at the bigs? Z is probably retiring, Shaq will not be re-signed.. We have Andy and JJ. Neither are stellar and neither could handle Howard.. People want to bundle JJ in the trades we’re talking about.. Unless we can get David West, we have to keep JJ.. He may not be as good as Jamison now, but JJ is like 14 years younger than Jamison.
Think we can talk the 6ers into letting Dalembert go?
some FA this summer-
Kenyon Martin
Carl Landry (Rest)
Yao Ming
Marcus Camby
Jermaine O’Neal
Eddy Curry
David Lee
Channing Frye (player option)
Amare Stoudemire
Chris Bosh (player option)
Carlos Boozer
A few guys on there I’d like us to get.. Maybe pull the trigger for Iggy, then try to sign one of these bigs with the Shaq money we’re freeing up.
Now as a Sixer fan, I’m absolutely sick of the team, the makeup of the team. This team has no chance of going anywhere for the next 5 years. Ideally, we’d get rid of Lou Williams and Mareese Speights for peanuts but the Sixers apparantly think they’re good future building blocks.
As far as Iggy, it’d be nice to get rid of that contract so we have a shot at making something happen this offseason. But I don’t want him going to Cleveland. Honestly, I hate the Cavs. He’d make them that much greater.
@MattyFos: Well Z already said hes NOT retiring and i think we will resign Shaq (if we win a title). But you make a good point, we will need to think on LONG-TERM conditions. But if the cavs make a move before the deadline, there is NO WAY we’ll be able to flirt with free-agents this off-season but its a catch 22 because if we don’t win a championship this year Lebron could be gone.
So we have a very hard choice on our hands. Its either get a great player before the deadline and risk not having the flexibility to go after a Superstar this off-season or don’t make a move and risk not winning a championship and losing Lebron but we’ll be in the off-season running for a superstar. Its a tough choice but if im Ferry i’ll wait.
If Lebron re-signs then the Cavs have their eyes on one BIG addition, Yao Ming. The Cavs would love to have him especially if the new Chinese Owners by half of the team. Yao will be #1 on our list and to your satisfaction, he’ll be our Big Man of the future.
One more thing. Obviously, if we’re getting rid of Iggy, I want Dalembert gone too. He’s a FA next year, as in the offseason after this 2010 class, so his contract’s not too bad. He’s got a large number on that contract, but length-wise, he’s got only 1 year remaining after this season.
@EZ: I wasn’t saying that Iggy can be anywhere near what Pippen is. He’s one of the greatest players of all time and without him the Bulls probably don’t win those titles.
What I am saying is that Iggy can be a guy who can cover a teams best player, drive to the hoop, create shots for himself, and generally take pressure off of LBJ. That’s what I like about him. His lack of a true shot is something I don’t.
@ Jay-
I just want to lose the big contracts of Z and Shaq.. I think we could use those contracts to bring in some talent. Maybe Z with a trade/buyout/re-sign (for way cheaper) and let Shaq go this offseason, use his money to bring in a legit center.. I’d like Camby. He’s a heck of a defensive center.. and with Iggy, LBJ, and Mo. it’ll be hard to get everybody (Amare) the touches they’d like.. We would have to get a role center..
@S-Dub-
Having Iggy’s size and defensive skills would be nice.. Especially against the Celtics and Orlando.. DWest was just outmatched last year against the Magic.. Iggy and LBJ could basically eliminate most teams best players
@MattyFos
Delonte was only overmatched against the Magic because we had him covering a 3 (Turkoglu) because nobody other than Lebron could guard Rashard Lewis at the 4. Against the Magic this year West would be guarding Vince Carter, which is a much better matchup. If we’re looking at the Celtics you’re talking about West on Rondo or Allen which are both covers that he can handle.
Playoff Series
Vs Magic
M.Williams — J.Nelson — Tie
A.Parker — V.Carter — Lose
L.James — M.Barns — Win
L.Powe — R.Lewis — Tie (powe will kill him under the basket
Shaq — D.Howard — Lose (but fair)
Vs Celtics
M.Williams — R.Rondo (Tie)
A.Parker — R.Allen (Lose)
L.James — P.Pierce (Win)
A.Varjoa — K.Garnett Lose (but fair)
Shaq — K.Perkins (Win)
Vs Lakers
M.Williams — D.Fisher (win)
A.Parker — K.Bryant (Lose)
L.James — R.Artest (Win)
Z.Illguskas — P.Gasol (Tie) but fair
Shaq — A.Bynum (Tie) but fair
Nice win for the Cavs but like Lebron said, no need to read into it so much. Its time to move on. Thunder, Heat, then T”Wolves. All at home. We gotta stay focus and we’ll do just fine. 32-11 win a cool second have of the season.
At this point i don’t think the cavs need a BIG addition. Maybe K.Martin from SAC or T.Murphy but thats about it. For some reason this year feels different than last season.
IDK, its something in the air.
@ Jay…
So you’re saying we’re going to need a SG… possibly a SG who is a terrific defender… possibly and SG who can move with the ball… anyone coming yo mind?
I’m thinking Iggy.. Pull the trigger. Iggy could beat Allen and Carter.. he won’t stop Kobe, but he’s a way better option than we have..and It’s obvious we need someone to stop Kobe.. he didn’t beat us earlier tonight, but it was looking pretty bad early.
@MattyFos: No, im saying we need a scorer coming off the bench or not. I also like the team we got but whatever we do i’ll support it.
Andre Igoudala is exactly what we need. He could start at the 2 spot and provide that extra scorer. He’d mainly be valuable to the second unit offense. I think Lebron should stop wimping out and play the 4. He’s bigger than Rashard Lewis even with Lewis taking an illegal substance. And it gives us a significant advantage on offense, but not a disadvantage on defense.
I don’t think Lebron would struggle to guard any pf’s in the league. Putting Lebron, Iguodala, Parker, Mo Williams, and Shaq on the court at the same time? Title. Jamison probably would be the better option, but we have to give up more for him. And Igoudala will be around longer. If we win a title with this group, Lebron would be convinced we could do the same for years to come. But Jamison will be 34 next year, giving him about 1 more year of high level play. Add Parker who will be 35, Shat at 38, and that’s 3 of our starters with an average age of 35. Igoudala just turned 26. Which means he could be with us for years to come.
SWEET JESUS WHY DO PEOPLE THINK THAT SHAQ IS UNDER CONTRACT NEXT YEAR???