While We’re Waiting… Mangini’s Family Ties, More Amare Trade Rumors and a Look Back at “No Excuses”
February 12, 2009Exclamation Point
February 12, 2009While Eric Mangini and the Cleveland Browns have been quoted in saying that there is no concrete starter at the quarterback position for 2009, smart money says that the team will likely turn to their quarterback of the future in Brady Quinn sooner than later. However, even if Quinn does get the nod this season, sooner is still too late considering that Phil Savage gave Derek Anderson a three-year $24.5 million contract just last off-season.
Couple the competition and salary with the fact that Anderson is due a roster bonus this spring, and the time to move D.A. was obviously last year when he was coming off of a Pro Bowl season. With his value considerably lower today than it was pre-Honalulu, Browns fans are itching to see what their team may be able to receive in return for good old No. 3.
Well, per NFL.com’s Adam Schefter, we do not exactly get a “what.” But we do get a “who,” as in “who” is actually interested in Anderson’s services.
If the Jets decide to go the free-agent route, former Giant Kerry Collins is a quarterback who knows how to deal with New York’s media — and winds.
If the Jets decide to trade for a quarterback, the most logical one is Cleveland’s Derek Anderson. For starters, Anderson has the most attractive contractual situation of any veteran quarterback. He is due a $5 million roster bonus on the 15th day of the league year, which is about a month from now. He signed a three-year, $24.5 million deal last year and still has two seasons remaining on it.
Beyond the contract are the relationships. Browns coach Eric Mangini and Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum have enough of a relationship that the two men could work out a deal. Also, Jets coach Rex Ryan worked with Anderson in Baltimore before the Ravens released the QB.
If the Jets were to trade for a quarterback, the most logical candidate is Anderson.
You cannot deny that the pieces are there. New York needs a quarterback a lot more than most other NFL teams. Mangini apparently managed to keep together at least one cordial relationship within the Jets organization. And Rex Ryan not only has ties to Anderson, but anyone with ties to the Ravens loves their strong-armed quarterbacks.
While I once thought that Mangini had burned nearly every bridge when he left New York, I am considerably more intrigued by the concept of trading Anderson east. If I were Anderson, however, New York would be the last place I would want to go. If he felt that fans herewere tough on him, he would be in for quite a treat. Those guys boo legends and future Hall of Famers…
If you’re wondering what picks the Jets own in the upcoming draft, they choose 17th overall in the first round. In the second-round, they choose 52nd overall (the 20th pick in the round). They then have the 12th pick in the third round via New Orleans (76th overall), but lose their 19th pick thanks to the acquisition of Brett Favre last season.
Pure speculation at this point, but at least we have signs of life on planet “Trade D.A.” Stay tuned.
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Jets looking over quarterback options[Adam Schefter/NFL.com]
35 Comments
Just to let the readers know, the WFNY writers have had this conversation behind the scenes. I think we were all in agreement on the DA issue. Correct me if I am wrong boys.
We were all in agreement that:
1. We aren’t sure if Brady Quinn is the answer or not.
2. We have seen enough of Derek Anderson to know that he is already not the solution. I think mostly from a mental standpoint is how most of us felt.
3. Dump DA via trade.
Is it even possible to think that we’d be able to get New York’s late 1st rounder for him? Their 2nd round pick location doesn’t look quite that attractive. I was fully on board trying to get something for DA last year, I hope he’s still worth something decent. Anyone know what picks the Vikings have? Or if thats even still being talked about?
I agree that DA needs to be traded, and I still think he could be a successful QB (just not in cleveland). What kind of value would we get here though? Is the 52nd pick too low? Wasn’t there something by a Vikings writer who said DA would be worth their 1st pick? I think the browns should be able to shop and get the best value, for DA… just dont lock in to one team.
Agree with 1-3. I hope DA does go to the Jets. If those fans thought Favre made bad decisions with the ball…
Anyone who still thinks DA could get a first rounder (or even second) is dilusional. Trade the frail stiff for a bag of donuts if it rids his absurd contract.
It’s worth noting that DA’s $5m roster bonus is, for all intents and purposes, guaranteed (brilliant move, Savage–thanks!) I’m sure Scott (and all the WFNY crew) are aware, but all your readers may not be, and I thought it important to mention.
That said, the Browns don’t stand to gain anything by cutting him since they’ll still have to pay out the cash–and with a 2009 salary of just under $3m, he might be worth keeping as a backup short of a knock-your-socks-off trade offer… but once the Browns have paid that $5m roster bonus, his trade value becomes considerably higher, since the team that trades for him would only have to worry about a (relatively) low salary for a starter one year removed from the Pro Bowl.
Randy, do you look at anything that pro football experts say? do you look at anything that other writers say about DA? DA right now should at LEAST be a rd. 2 pick. Just because you dont like him doesnt mean that he is terrible. I hope the browns trade him, but i also hope he has a good career, because what happened to him (and BQ really) has been a complete clusterf###.
“since the team that trades for him would only have to worry about a (relatively) low salary for a starter one year removed from the Pro Bowl.”
Agreed, at least for 2009. His salary skyrockets in 2010, to the point where if the Browns do not trade him, he would be among the top-five highest paid players on the team.
And thanks for pointing out the roster bonus, MJ. Not much of a “roster” bonus given that he gets it regardless of his roster status…
I agree with Randy. There is NO WAY we are getting a 1st rd pick for a guy that was benched halfway through the last season. I’m fine with whatever we get. There is still value in the 2nd-3rd round if you scout right.
That’s my biggest problem with the Savage defenders, Scott. Everyone is quick to point out that he brought us some pro-bowlers, but they turn a blind eye to how absolutely incompetent he was in negotiating contracts and managing salary (ie, overpaying damn near everybody he signed or traded for.) This team is going to feel the effects of his mismanagement for years to come, barring some kind of “reset button” (the uncapped year, or some changes to the cap rules) that might save us in the upcoming CBA renegotiation.
As for DA, I don’t see his 2010 compensation being a huge problem for any team that might trade for him. If he performs well under his $3m 2009 salary, any GM would extend his deal to avoid having a lame duck situation the following year. And if he didn’t meet expectations in 2009, they could cut him without doing any damage to their cap or salary structure (of course, I’m going out on a big limb and assuming that–like the usual definition of roster bonus, as opposed to Savage’s–his 2010 roster bonus isn’t guaranteed.
bobby….with all due respect, you are delusional and letting your emotions guide your thought. DA has proven to have zero leadership skills, zero command/presence in the huddle/field, and a frail (at best) level of confidence. NFL experts know that those are the prerequisites of QB play-by not trading DA when we had the levarage last year the cat is now out of the bag. I repeat that nobody will give away a first or second rounder for DA-let’s just wait this out and see what transpires. Just remember what you’ve said here.
MJ-for the first time I must disagree with you, respectfully. I feel strongly it’s best to part with DA now rather than hold onto him-he doesn’t want to be here, he’s got a bad attitude, he won’t function as a teamate sitting behind BQ, he won’t serve to provide support and leadership………..and he’s not worth the cash. Go out and sign a veteran who can provide both mentoring to BQ and backup play if needed. (ie Kerry Collins or the likes).
OK, I’m looking for a 2nd source to confirm this, but it appears I overstated DA’s 2009 salary. I thought his 2010 comp was along the lines of a $10m salary and another $5m bonus, but apparently the majority of his contract will have been paid out once this upcoming $5m “roster bonus” (thanks, Phil) is paid:
2009: $1.45m salary; $5m roster bonus due in March
2010: $7.45 million; $2m roster bonus
@RandyOSU – I’d agree with you if we weren’t on the hook for his $5m bonus whether he’s on the team or not. If we’ve got to pay him the $5m to go away, I’d rather pay the bonus and then trade him. At a $1.45m salary, he would be a low-risk proposition for them, and somebody will give up value for him. NFL scouts love those big arms, and there will be a few who think they can coach him up and rehabilitate him.
I agree with your assessment of DA, I just hope that Mankok can get something out of him, rather than take follow the Butch Davis/Crennel/Savage model and pay him to go away and get nothing in return.
mj-i’m just making the point that I think essentially he’s a cancer to the team and won’t take a role as a backup. Given that scenario it’s far better to move him irregardless of the financial issue. (ie…….Jacksonville just rid themselves of Porter and a CB who’s name escapes me).
I’m with you, Randy. But that roster bonus is due in less than a month. If we cut him now, somebody *will* sign him, and we will have given him a $5m severance package. Better to keep him on the roster and trade him after we’ve paid the bonus… his “cancer” can’t spread too far between now and the draft. I don’t know how much he can bring in return, but there are plenty of teams desperate for QBs–he’ll bring value somewhere. I can see DA being a very nice chip to play come draft day, if he were still around at that point–though I’d suspect Kokinis and Mangini to move him sooner than later.
Rhetorically, Randy, I just wonder if they DO somehow get a 2nd rounder for him (I, too, and skeptical, but think it’s not *that* unlikely in today’s NFL when you consider some of the QBs that started games for teams last season), will you come back and give “Mankok” any credit for it?
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2009/1/27/738016/adam-schefter-weighs-in-on
This is the only thing I can find so far that has any value listed for DA. I also read something saying that the browns won’t accept anything less then a rd. 2 for him, but that was before the Mangini Kokinis hirings i believe.
DP-if that happens, most assuredly I will. Count on it……..if the Browns get a first or second round pick for DA I’ll definitely own up.
But it they don’t…….I would hope the others (aka bobby) will do so as well.
That said…….think about DA from an outsider’s perspective (characteristics he has and brings as well as his contract) in regards to his trade value. I’d be estatic if he brings a third or fourth rounder…….again, much of that equation is addition by subtraction and moving on. (the time has flown when we could have gotten subtantial draft picks for him…….and that was pre-draft last year).
Trade him for a conditional 2010 pick? Either a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc….based on his 2009 performance. It would be nice to have a pick this year from the Jets, but if their 1st round pick is out of the question and the 2nd rounder isn’t until #52 then I think we have to involve the 2010 draft somehow. Heck maybe even this year’s 2nd pick AND next year’s? Lot’s of possibilities.
On a side note, I just saw Nick Mangold at a local bookstore and I was THIS CLOSE to asking him about Mangini. Alas, I didn’t talk to him, figuring he probably didn’t want to talk to me.
“(the time has flown when we could have gotten subtantial draft picks for him…….and that was pre-draft last year).”
Man, I still want to vomit every time I think back to Savage’s comments about how it would have been a “low first and third rounder” to justify why he was in such a hurry to overpay an RFA… to think we could have kept DA for roughly $2.5m, or taken a first and third if another team did the old poison-pill routine…
So what if they do get rid of DA??? They still have to replace him. And with who… some other stiff??? Or worst, a draft choice… another unproven guy??? At least DA has proven he can play. There are a lot of bad paths the Browns can take at this point in the road. One would be to dump DA and go into next season with no good replacement for Quinn. Then (not if but when) Quinn gets hurt… the Browns (now wishing thay had DA) insert their new guy and is’t WFNY AGAIN!!! I say the whole idea of getting rid of DA is a little short sighted. But if the Browns do hang on to him… it has to be made clear that he is “only” the back-up. If not, it’s quarterback controversy all over again and it will take another 3-5 years to clear the deck and start over. A pattern I have seen many times in my life. In that case mayby 2013 will be a lucky years for us.
@ bobby – thanks for that link!
Schefter’s assessment, within the context of Minnesota acquiring a QB: “To get Anderson is going to cost at least a second-round pick, and maybe a first, and that’s a steep price. Then again, Minnesota traded its 1 last year and that worked out pretty well, didn’t it?”
Assuming that the Browns will go forward with Quinn, I’d be happy to see the Browns get a 2nd rounder for DA, and tickled to death if they could still finagle a first. Minny might be likely to pay the price, too… with their top-notch run game, their coaches may drool at the thought of a cannon arm like DA’s to stretch the defense–something they were missing this year at QB. He’s exactly the type of QB they need to keep defenses from stacking the box to stop AP.
Randy, I’m with you. I’m on the fence. I’d love for them to get a 2nd. I don’t know that they will, though. All of that having been said, if they end up with a 6th to “trade him for the sake of trading him” then I WILL be upset.
No doubt the Browns need to stockpile some more draft picks. I would be surprised if the Browns stay at No. 5, too.
But is it just me or doesn’t Brady Quinn remind you of exactly the type of quarterback Eric Mangini wants on his team?
Not just you, Don…
Fans wont be hard on him there. Nobody watches the jets
Can we trade him for Leon Washington?
Randy @ #14… Small point but for what it’s worth, there is no such word as “irregardless.” Look it up…it’s either “regardless'” or “irrespective.” GRAMMER RULES!
Don’t you mean *grammar* rules, NIKKO? 😉
+1 Good work mj.
Grammar police strike agaiiiiin!
thanks mj!
NIKKO-would you get a life please?!
NIKKO-please consult Webster’s next time:
Main Entry: ir·re·gard·less
Pronunciation: \ˌir-i-ˈgärd-ləs\
Function: adverb
Etymology: probably blend of irrespective and regardless
Date: circa 1912
nonstandard : regardless
usage Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose
Easy, fellas. Lets be careful walking that fine line close to personal attacks.
Rock-who’s attacking who?!
Didn’t realize spellchecker/grammatical politics entered into play in a sports forum? Talk about microprocessing………
Irregardless is a double negative, therefore incorrect.
I’m just sayin’.