Is Matt Williams a “Hall of Famer?”
December 31, 2008Report: Mark DeRosa Acquired by Indians
December 31, 2008I think at this point in this nation’s history, we all know where the state of diversity stands. Um, Barack Obama is going to be inaugurated into the highest office in the land soon. We are a few years removed from the Superbowl where we were reminded every two seconds that Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith were both black head coaches. We are also almost 50 years removed since the Boston Red Sox became the LAST Major League Baseball team to employ the services of a black player on their roster. For those keeping score at home, it was Pumpsie Green and it occurred TWELVE YEARS after the color barrier was broken by Jackie Robinson. With the recently vacated seat atop the Cleveland Browns coaching staff, I was thinking that the Rooney rule probably needs to be analyzed.
The Rooney Rule states that teams with head coaching vacancies must interview minority candidates as a part of the process to fill positions. The rule was established in 2003 when the state of the “diversity” in head coaches was lacking to say the least. Prior to the Rooney rule minority head coaches were only employed 6% of the time. After the rule was put in place, the minority coaching population jumped all the way to 22%. The rule was probably necessary due to the disparity between the black head coach population (6%) and the black players population (70%.) Obviously there was some sort of biased culture in the hiring process and in order to change it there needed to be a rule.
But now do we still need a rule in place? Now that we have seen the careers of Tony Dungy, Lovie Smith, Marvin Lewis, Mike Tomlin, Art Shell, Dennis Green, and Romeo Crennel, shouldn’t we just have good and bad coaches instead of black and white head coaches? Now that we have seen that Mike Tomlin, and Tony Dungy, for example, are very good at their jobs, and that Romeo Crennel and Art Shell are seemingly bad, why should Tomlin and Dungy still have to be grouped in an artificial manner with people just because of the color of their skin?
If a rule is in place that forces teams to interview people specifically because of their race simply cheapens the positions of those coaches who have been selected for all the right reasons and happened to be black. Mike Tomlin shouldn’t be viewed as having a leg up in the hiring prcess because of his race. He should be viewed as having a leg up in the hiring process because of his knowledge, his demeanor and competitive fire.
While I won’t argue that the Rooney Rule wasn’t necessary, because in my estimation it clearly was. I might argue that today, we need to review the necessity of the rule, when it seems to me that we might have outgrown it a bit.
Just thinking about it from a Browns fan’s perspective, I haven’t heard anything that would indicate that the Rooney rule still needs to be in place. Yes, the Browns just fired a black head coach. Have you heard anyone around the area talk about the fact that his race had anything to do with that? Have you heard all the jealous whispers about Mike Tomlin in PIttsburgh? These two things in concert lead me to believe that we have progressed at least a little bit. So where do we stand today?
Farbeit for a white guy from Cleveland to dictate. Have we evolved enough at this point for the NFL to be able to do away with this rule? Only one team, the Detroit Lions, has ever been fined as a result of this rule, and their excuse was that all the minority candidates canceled interviews because they thought Steve Mariucci’s hiring was inevitable. Also, the namesake of the rule, Steelers’ owner Dan Rooney is on record saying that he hoped the NFL wouldn’t need this rule for too long, despite the league’s embarassing past.
What do you think?
27 Comments
Let’s say that Shanahan decided he wanted to coach, and contacted the Browns. He interviews for the job. Why would you want to even interview for that job if you didn’t think you would get it?
I think I would like to see how clubs work if the rule were rescinded, and if things devolve it could be reinstated. Make it an implied rule, if you will.
Where I think this rule would help most is in the NCAA (especially football). What are there, like 8 black head coaches out of 119 teams?? That’s a disgrace.
What if you are the owner and there simply are no black/minority candidates for the position that you see as qualified. Do you just call up one of the many black coordinators, pay to fly him in, sit him down in your office and say “Hi, sorry for wasting your time but we needed you to fulfill the requirements of the rooney rule, you can go home now.” and then pay to fly him back?
I agree with Rick…Let me paint you a picture…
Lerner’s chat with Cowher goes great last weekend! he wants to come back and coach the Browns!! woo-hoo! all set, right? noooope!
Now, i’m a black coordinator with another team. well respected, an “up and comer.” i get a call Monday morning from Randy Lerner inviting me to Cleveland for an interview. I already heard that Cowher was not only the front runner, but almost a shoe-in for the job…now, why would i want to:
1. waste my time
2. fill the Browns’ leage-mandated quota
3. embarass myself because EVERYONE present (including myself) knows i have no shot at this job
4. WASTE MY TIME…(did i say that already?)
It just doesn’t make sense.
It definitely wasn’t without its problems, but there is no question that the rule was necessary and has proved to be useful in its results, at least. The question is whether or not we need it anymore. I think the NFL is such a results-driven business that people won’t deny an interview with any promising candidates regardless of race.
I guess the question I have is did any candidates get a job because of the Rooney Rule? Has there been a minority candidate hired that the owner wouldn’t have interviewed without being forced to?
I would have to agree that this rule may no longer be necessary. One particular incident that really got me fired up on this issue was the hiring of Chizik at Auburn. Certainly, Barkely has a point that the past records of Chizik and Gill may make it seem that Chizik was the less qualified candidate, but hiring a coach goes far beyond race and records. Maybe it was that Chizik had a better plan for academics, recruiting, off-season preparations… I don’t know, but I have a hard time believing that race trumps the assurance that someone is going to step in run the program in an organized and winning manner.
As stated by the posts above, quality of the coach is what matters when it comes down to it.
Thus, maybe the rule should not madate that a particular number of black candidates are interviewed, but rather state that sanctions may be handed down for particularly egregious cases of racism. But this may only work in cases where there is obviously a front running candidate. In cases, where multiple rookies are being interviewed the rule may make more sense.
At this day and age we are dumb to believe that racism no longer exists, but I don’t know many programs (college or professional) that would rather lose than hire a minority.
The point is for black candidates to get their foot in the door. It isn’t for this particular job. It is for the next available job or the one after that. It is supposed to make the normally overlooked black potential candidate a part of the conversation across the league. So, yes, the rule is still necessary.
Plus, what is the harm? oh my, we have to interview one more person? It isn’t a huge hassle for racial equality.
@8 BINGO.
I grew up in a diverse community in the city and have lots of black friends, but these sorts of systematic race-based schemes just strike me as a bit anachronistic. Hopefully the Rooney rule will be phased out in coming years as the US becomes further removed from the old racial categories that have been so divisive.
In the meantime, I wonder whether it should be possible for there to be exemptions to the rule for teams like the Browns that have hired black coaches in recent years. Seems pointless to go through the charade again when clearly color has not been a limiting factor in the organization’s hiring decisions over the years.
if there needs to be any type of rooney rule it should be in college football, however i’m sure most of those SEC boosters would fight that to the death… in other news the tribe just got Mark DeRosa i guess not a bad pickup but what frustrates me is that apparently they are playiong him at 3rd not 2nd where he’s a much better fielder. so it looks like slow-poke peralta is back at the hot corner for now
if there needs to be any type of rooney rule it should be in college football, however i’m sure most of those SEC boosters would fight that to the death… in other news the tribe just got Mark DeRosa i guess not a bad pickup but what frustrates me is that apparently they are playing him at 3rd not 2nd where he’s a much better fielder. so it looks like slow-poke peralta is back at the hot corner for now
If there need to be a Rooney Rule in any sport it would be collge football, however I’m sure a lot of the boosters for larger schools would be opposed to that idea… In other news the Indians just traded for Mark DeRosa. Pretty good pickup in that he’s similar to the beloved Casey Blake with a little more power. The only thing that I dont like is that apparently now “slow-poke” Peralta is going to be a shotstop still and DeRosa at 3rd even though he’s a much better second baseman in the field. Now i’m assuming they may be done as far as any more moves this offseason unless they go get a 2nd or 3rd tier right handed starting pitcher
@ whipjacka (sort of):
But in the NCAA, race is a huge factor. Schools don’t want to hire black coaches because it can affect the donations of racist benefactors, or limit their ability to recruit white talent from the south. It’s sad but true. So while Auburn may have chosen their head coach for some of his “non-coaching” assets, at least one of those assets is the color of his skin. That’s why Barkley was mad, and I tend to agree with him.
@whipjacka
dead on.
The rule is absolutely relavent. If you’re a smart franchise, you interview both top candidates and future candidates. Let’s face it, the league is 90% black and there are still very few black coaches and black assistant coaches. There are some legitimire reasons for the overall disparity but not enough legitimite ones to account for size of the disparity.
To say now that Obama is president, all programs to make minority hiring obselete is myopic, at best. We have a black president but this is still not a post-racial nation. This extends for many non-black minorities as well.
The Rooney Rule is on occasion pointless when certain teams make the “obvious hire” but by and large it is a good thing and the smart teams will do more, than less, minority hiring.
sorry, meant @ chab631
@Bridgecrosser I never said that Obama being elected means that we need to get rid of all programs or that they were obsolete.
At some point, though, a rule like this will outlive its usefulness if it hasn’t already. That was my only point. When the rule outlives its usefulness, it crosses a threshold and creates a situation whereby it does a disservice to minority candidates.
My meaning is that at a certain point it gives cause for people to identify people by their race when they normally wouldn’t at all. If the average NFL owner now just looks at coaches as good or bad, why should they be reminded by some archaic rule (when and if it becomes archaic) that certain candidates are minorities and certain candidates are not.
Anyway, I was just asking the question. If we got rid of the rule, do you honestly think that there would be a minority hiring freeze? To say that is to say that Mike Tomlin and Mike Singletary to a lesser extent are in their jobs because of the rule. I am not sure that anybody is really ready to say that, are they?
@Whipjacka certainly the cost of it isn’t a barrier for the NFL. It isn’t a big deal to fly people in to interview them. I was just curious in the pie in the sky world if this thing was still necessary, not if it was too costly to be pragmatic for the NFL to continue.
This is a topic that’s of particular importance to me and as I’ve gotten older I’ve noticed that it’s becoming more and more of an important issue. Remember when Martin Luther King, Jr. said that he dreamed of a day when his children would be judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin?
It’s obvious that racism is still alive and well in the world today (and despite what we may hear, it’s not limited to these United States), and unfortunately because of that, rules and laws like Affirmative Action and Equal Opportunity, as well as The Rooney Rule have had to be enacted. The problem with these rules, like so many other things we have constructed to deal with sensitive issues, is that we inevitably over-correct the problem, and then eventually end up in a situation no different then where we started. While the intentions behind these rules may have been good at the time they were put in place, the fact remains that in 2008-09 we are still basing these decisions on skin color and not on who’s the best qualified candidate for the job.
Hiring to fill quotas or giving someone a job because they are a minority isn’t how you eliminate racism. I would argue that, that actually allows racism to continue. To eliminate racism we need to educate ourselves and our future generations as to how damaging racism can be, not only to the victim but to the offender as well, and look into our history and to the leaders of the past that worked, and sweat, and bled, and perhaps most importantly, loved, in order to bring us out of the days of segregation and into a world where we could truly be one people. As Abraham Lincoln said, “A house divided, cannot stand.”
For every Rooney Rule, or Affirmative Action, and for every Steven A. Smith, and Charles Barkley so willing and ready to throw race into our collective faces, we take a step back from where great leaders like Martin Luther King, JFK, Abraham Lincoln, and Bobby Kennedy brought us. I would agree that unfortunately, at least for the time being, there may need to be some policing or watch dog group in place to monitor and prevent racist practices in the hiring process. But, I too am looking forward to the day when those rules aren’t needed, and when we can finally look past skin color and make our decisions on who is hired and fired and who we are friends with or not friends with, etc. based on the content of a person’s character.
We should never forget the pain and suffering that racism has caused, but we also need to move forward by remembering the bravery, and the courage, the sacrifices, and the love that the Martin Luther King’s, and Abraham Lincoln’s and Jackie Robinson’s of the world have showed us. And, we need to honor them by continuing in their foot steps and carrying the torch of freedom, love, and equality, not by feeling guilty or setting up rules to meet quotas.
Here’s hoping 2009 brings us closer to MLK’s Dream and a Cleveland Championship. Happy New Year.
I’m not really sure why a low number of black coaches is the catastrophe some people think it is. Maybe there aren’t that many qualified blacks that want to be football coaches. It doesn’t have to be racism, that’s a lazy assessment of the situation.
No one is appalled at the low number of hispanic NBA players or asian hockey players. Why isn’t that evidence of horrible, awful racism too?
Fact of the matter is pro sports are a business. If someone is going to make you money, it doesn’t matter if they shoot strippers in night clubs, they find a place to make someone a rich man.
I think it was Chris Rock who said this on ESPN, but you know there’s equality for black coaches when bad ones get re-hired somewhere else, just like how bad white coaches keep finding work (I’m looking at you Norv Turner!)
But is the Rooney Rule a good idea? Only if its followed legitimately and not just to the letter of the law. Dennis Green and Art Shell used to get interviewed practically every year just so a team could meet the requirement and that’s stupid. Interviewing a minority candidate shouldn’t just be lip service, it should be because they’re a good coach. It’s sad that we still need to think about things like this in this country. Hopefully we won’t need to for much longer.
Props to everyone for a reasonable discussion. Too often, when race comes up in a sports discussion, it quickly gets ugly.
Whipjacka and Bridgecrosser are spot on. Remove the rule and you’ll see minority candidates begin to recede from the conversation. Three decades of sociological research has found that people in power generally hire people who are similar to them socially and culturally — race is a big part of this. The rule is aimed at breaking that cycle — as Whipjacka said, it guarantees that black coaches become part of the conversation. I think it was Marvin Lewis who spoke approvingly of the rule. Even if you know you’re not going to get this job, it gets your foot in the door. AND it gives you vital experience at interviewing with GMs, team owners, etc.
@ Nick/18 claims that Affirmative Action programs perpetuate racism. This is a common sentiment by whites and shows a deep misunderstanding of how race operates in the US, particularly within social organizations and institutions. Sociological research has shown the persistence of racial discrimination and racist attitudes despite decades of education, attempts at progress, etc. Our public schools are just as segregated as they were 40 years ago. Neighborhoods remain highly segregated. Choose an indicator of life quality — income, wealth, health, access to quality schools, access to quality health care — and you’ll see that blacks still lag behind. Hoping for racial enlightenment isn’t going to fix things — rather, we have to work towards racial equality with programs and measures like the Rooney Rule.
Research also shows that the Affirmative Action and diversity programs that succeed the best are the ones that are monitored and, essentially, hold the organization’s feet to the fire.
@ Jeremy: no, it’s your assessment that is lazy. Your belief that there aren’t that many “qualified” black candidates is shot down by the number of black coaches who express frustrations over their inability to move up the ladder, as well as the number of blacks who are in the pipeline. Look how long it took Dungy to become a head coach. Meanwhile, tired old white guy after tired old white guy are recycled and hired again and again. In D1 college football, the percentages of blacks at each level are as follows (roughly):
– 50% of players are black
– 30% of assistant coaches
– 12% of coordinators
– 5% of head coaches
Do you really think that a lack of qualified black candidates is the problem?
The reason why people aren’t complaining about the lack of Hispanic NBA players or Asian hockey players is that there aren’t obvious barriers that keep interested and qualified parties from playing.
@Dave – “Three decades of sociological research has found that people in power generally hire people who are similar to them socially and culturally”… that may have been partially or even mostly true the last several decades, but the crucial question is about our *present* decade. It is, of course, sloganizing to say that we live in a post-racial society in the wake of Obama’s election, but it’s equally misguided to deny that we are qualitatively less racially divided than we were several decades as a country. I don’t buy the argument that we haven’t made any progress in the last 40 years.
What Obama’s election signals is an increasing facility in the US electorate to select a leader based on merit rather than color, and it would follow that this trend would be seen in other domains such as hiring in the NFL. I like the Rooney rule – it is a brilliant way to nudge the NFL to reflect greater diversity in the coaching ranks – however, I hope it is phased out in the next several years as it becomes outmoded in a less color-conscious society.
I agree with you Humboldt. This isn’t to say that we live in a land of milk and honey and everybody can sing Kum Ba Ya together. I am not that sheltered or that naive. My only question is whether we have evolved past the Rooney rule yet, and if not, how much longer does everyone think it will honestly take?
@ Humboldt — when I say “three decades,” I mean that it’s been a long-running finding that continues up to the present day. I found it in my own research in the headquarters of a Fortune 500 company.
I didn’t (and never would) claim that we haven’t made progress in racial terms. The evidence is clear that we have. But the extent to which race — and relatedly, class — prohibit certain groups from upward mobility in terms of hiring and promotion is still a major problem. Obama is the exception, not the rule.
Craig @ 23 asks a good question — my guess is that the Rooney Rule will be needed until there are a significant number of blacks as head coaches *and* in management. Ownership and management is still predominantly a white boys club. Race will become less of an issue only those guys are used to seeing more non-white faces in their ranks on a regular basis.
@Craig – sorry – was definitely NOT implying that you felt a black president = no more racial progress/minority advancement was necessary. However, that attitude is out there.
How long will the Rooney rule be needed? This answer might suprise people but I think the rule will be around another 15-25 years (half-to whole generation). We’ve come a long way, but there is still a ways to go.
Look at the top executives of top corporations (which include NFL teams). Until their make-up reflects that of America’s demographics, the Rooney Rule will be a positive & necessary enactment for the NFL.
I remember when Whitlock talked about Donovan Mcnabb and the whole “not enough black quarterbacks” thing. Whitlock determined that black quarterbacks had it tougher than white quarterbacks because black players didn’t show the same respect to black quarterbacks – one of his examples was TO.
I’m not real big into college sports, so I don’t know if there is still racism although as a former college student I saw more examples of reverse racism towards whites than I saw racism towards minorities. That being said, i just wanted to say that as a fan – i love Mike Brown as a coach – and that I think good coaches are good coaches regardless of race. The “Rooney Rule” seems like affirmative action – I’m not a fan of affirmative action.
Saying Colleges don’t hire black coaches because they wont get donations is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard on this subject. Did you hear that Barrack Obama just broke all fundraising efforts? Do you realize that people are hypersensitive to racism and will actually probably donate more just to satisfy whatever guilt they may feel?