Winslow Almost Got His Wish
October 22, 2008And Now, Something Else…
October 22, 2008There are a lot of arguments flying around about Kellen Winslow right now. So many that it is really hard to keep it all straight. As a result, I have decided to attempt a conversation with myself to figure out what exactly the deal is with Kellen Winslow and what the Browns should do with him.
Q: Isn’t Kellen Winslow a great player? Shouldn’t this be easy? You want to keep great players and have them play for you, right?
A: Yes, you should want to keep great players, but their costs have to be in line with the benefits they give you. By costs, I don’t just mean money by the way. I am talking about money, chemistry, willingness to play team football, etc. It is becoming pretty apparent that the Browns think they might be better off without him.
Q: Nobody plays harder than Kellen Winslow. Nobody works their butt off harder to get on the field and perform more than Kellen Winslow. How could anyone consider the Browns better without him?
A: There is something to be said for style, I guess. Kellen Winslow has that proverbial “heart of a lion” for sure, but that doesn’t mean he is the best fit for the Browns. First, we have heard rumors that Winslow can be a really pain in the behind in the huddle, demanding attention from the QB on every pass play. We have seen Winslow’s deficiencies in downfield blocking. If the Browns think they are leaving yardage on the field due to a lack of tight end blocking, they aren’t going to be happy. Penalties, fights and verbal jousting on the field don’t exactly create a culture of success either. K2 brings a lot of talent to the field, but he isn’t without his negatives.
Q: Wow, you really must hate Kellen Winslow a lot. How could you just pile on all these bad things to a player who is probably the most talented individual player on the Browns offense?
A: I certainly don’t hate K2. His jersey is the only one that I own. He makes me jump off my couch when he catches big first downs. The bottom line is this, though. More than pretty much every other sport, football is a team game that relies heavily on chemistry and a willingness of a lot of guys to do a lot of little things right. It is definitely nice to have a guy like K2 who makes the big things look so easy, like running routes and catching balls. At the same time, unless professional football suddenly turns into a game where a single player can absolutely take over a game, the Browns need a lot of those little things from their tight end almost more than they need the big things.
Q: You mean to tell me that you discount catching impossible catches for run blocking and blocking on screen passes and things like that?
A: I don’t know. This is new territory for me. I am having a tough time coming to grips with it myself. After watching the Giants come together last year without Jeremy Shockey, I am starting to wonder if the other TE from Miami could be having the same effect on the Browns. Except, K2 might actually be worse for the Browns due to his injury history. Check it out. You have a guy who demands the QB’s attention in the huddle. A guy who jumps around with toddler-like histrionics when he doesn’t get the ball and he thinks he was open. A guy who commits penalties and doesn’t exactly contribute to the feeling of calmness, coolness and collectedness on the team. On top of that, he has an irreparable amount of damage to his knee that he is constantly battling through and a desire for salary-cap crippling amounts of money. Isn’t it possible for just a second that Phil Savage knows what he is doing with K2?
Q: Speaking of Phil Savage how can he justify suspending K2 this week? What, did Phil get his feelings hurt because Kellen Winslow called him out after last week’s game?
A: I don’t know what Phil’s other options were. Despite how badly things are going this year, to not show any organizational strength would be a big mistake. Crennel might be on his way out, but Savage needs to do everything he can to survive the washout at the end of the year assuming this season isn’t going to get any better. If you are going to live by the sword, you have to die by the sword. Trading players like Leigh Bodden is bold. Suspending players on your own team and showing that you aren’t going to take any garbage no matter who the player, is even bolder. On top of all that, despite the Browns’ problems with staph, the Browns still need to do everything they can to battle any misconception that they don’t care and are trying to cover it up. If Winslow wanted to keep his illness quiet and then came out the opposite way to embarass the organization, then Phil Savage had to respond vigilantly.
Q: Great. So now we are sacrificing games so that Phil Savage can feel like a big man. This isn’t exactly the commitment to winning that I expect to see as a Browns fan.
A: That wasn’t a question. Stick with the format, please.
Q: Fine. Are the Browns giving up on the season because they suspended Kellen Winslow?
A: Just the opposite actually. I am not going out on that limb with Phil Savage and company, but it seems to me they are thinking that the only way to set up this franchise to win in the long run is with a team-first concept. Everyone running at the same pace in the same direction with the same attitude. If Kellen Winslow won’t fall in line, then he will have to get out of the way. The real question is what will it say about Kellen Winslow if the Browns go out and play an unbelievable team game this weekend against Jacksonville?
Q: So, you are asking the questions now? Outstanding. In a perfect world, how does this whole thing work out for you?
A: In a perfect world, I hope the Browns play really well this weekend without K2. I hope it sends a message to Winslow that he better become a part of the solution rather than adding to the team’s many problems. I hope Winslow comes back after the Jacksonville game and has an amazing end to the year.
Q:Â Then what about the new contract and all the money that Winslow wants?
A: I hope Winslow and his agent get that new contract somewhere. Either I want Winslow back here as a part of this team, playing unselfishly while not providing distractions to the team, or I want to trade him for some decent draft picks so that the Browns can start to load up at positions of need in the draft. I can go either way on this one. We just have to trust Phil Savage to not cripple the salary cap and create a group of guys who can hopefully, finally, eventually challenge for the playoffs in the AFC.
Q:Â OK, so what exactly do we do about Derek Anderson, Braylon Edwards, the linebackers, Romeo Crennel, the third corner, the third receiver…
A: Hold up. Hold up. That convo is going to have to come some other day. I just don’t have the stamina to think about all the Browns’ problems today.
**
37 Comments
Kellen Winslow, how DARE you speak publicly of your frustrations with Phil Savage? How DARE you go public with the fact that you had another staph infection and that our esteemed GM doesn’t even call or acknowledge hospitalized players (even those who play while their bodies are ravaged). Behold the magic of the BLACKBERRY-for with it’s power you are now persona non-grata and $240K lighter in the wallet.
WOW-major transgression here. MAJOR. Instead of public intoxication, abusing a woman, getting arrested for a felony, or any such infraction you Mr. Winslow dared speak negatively about the great Oz (Phil Savage, the man behind the curtain). For this, you have earned the right to take your Pro-Bowl pedigree, warrior/competitive mentality, and sculpted hands out of Cleveland. The great Oz was way ahead of you, having already planned your demise with somebody named Martin Rucker (a poor man’s facsimile in Oz’s head).
Far be it from anyone to question The Great Oz’s job performance. Far be it to question Oz’s superior management abilities in terms of being the FACE of a major organization to the public, people/personal skills in dealing with his organization, and administrative skills of the most professional manner. Far be it for anyone (fans, media, et al) to ever question The Great One’s football personel maneuvers-his lifeless four years worth of drafting and below the mendoza line hitting on free-agents aside. With all of his skills, Oz brought us Romeo Crennel as leader and a record of drafting so abysmal (less a few top 3 picks that anyone would hit on) that this team has build no foundation. But……the Great Oz has one thing that you and I dont’ have………and this is a massive ego. Don’t dare question The Great Oz. Remember, the Great Oz has spoken-not by microphone or public appearance, but by BLACKBERRY.
Q: Exactly what would Phil Savage have to do to earn even a little criticism?
A: Short of shaking babies and kicking puppies, apparently not a freaking thing. And even then, I’m sure the babies would have been asking for it, and the dogs were lacking loyalty.
That’s a pretty sweet deal. Getting the lion’s share of credit when things go right, and not an ounce of blame when things go wrong. Meet the new “Teflon Don”, Phil Savage.
I would demand QB attention as well when my QB insisted on throwing the ball on every play to a WR who drops 70% of his passes. Winslow wants to win, plain and simple.
“If Winslow wanted to keep his illness quiet and then came out the opposite way to embarass the organization, then Phil Savage had to respond vigilantly.”
See, this is where I disagree. Winslow stated that the TEAM wanted to keep the injury quiet due to the issues with staph. In accordance, they said that they were honoring their player’s wishes. Then, rumors came out about STD/swollen testicles, and Winslow wanted to clear the air. He shouldn’t have to get tossed under the bus here and his interview claimed just that.
If Savage felt that his comments were detrimental to the team, he’s nuts. They’re detrimental to the front office, specifically his office. A fine, I may have be alright with. Suspension? No chance…
If we win this weekend, we’re 2-0 w/o Winslow vs. 1-4 with him. That has to mean something.
“If the Browns think they are leaving yardage on the field due to a lack of tight end blocking…”
Ok, this is the easy one.
Step 1: Put him at slot
Step 2: line Heiden up at TE
Step 3: insert a QB who might be able to complete more than 49% of his passes (or at least find out if he can)
Step 4: Profit
Nobody:
We were 10-6 last year WITH Winslow, compute???
Scott, why do you believe Winslow and not Phil Savage? Savage claims that Winslow’s people wanted to keep it quiet. This is consistent with all the knee surgeries that Winslow had in the past. Remember we didn’t even find out about one of Winslow’s surgeries until much much later. It isn’t like K2 doesn’t have a history of keeping his stuff quiet.
K2 heard the rumors of STD’s and swollen testicles before he spoke out, so why is it not his selfishness you are harping on rather than Phil Savage?
great point Chris. I have been saying that since training camp. He is more a slot receiver than a TE. Why does no one on the Browns notice this?
I don’t disagree about him being a slot receiver. That is on coaching, and I was trying not to turn this into a “Fire RAC” post. Every post for me is a “Fire RAC” post. I will never think that the Browns shouldn’t fire him.
this is a joke. You cant seriously suggest that Kellen Winslow has been detremental to the team. HE RARELY SPEAKS OUT. RARELY.
Get the Miami incident out of your head. Now. Stop. Remove it completely.
Done? Good
Now what has he done in the last 2 years, aside from catching 80 plus balls and been an outlet for a near brain dead quaterback? Nothing! His teammates love him. Just because Savage is incapable of taking critiscism does not mean we should give away our best player.
Are you going to seriously think that his “lack of” downfield blocking is worth trading a pro bowl tight end? are you kidding me? How the HELL do you plan on replacing him?
Draft picks? LOL. Sure. Trade a proven commedity (I understand the injury risks involved with him) for a 2nd and a 3rd. that’ll work great 2-3 years (IF they pan out) down the line, so we can make excuses next year about “rebuilding” again. It’s all we ever do. Rebuild, scrap the team, rebuild again.
(This comment has been edited for language.)
Craig, valid points indeed. I just don’t think it’s selfish to want to clear the air on an injury. And his history is well documented, but something tells me that if elephantitis was rumored back then, he would have quenched it as well.
Thank you, James Walker…
Let’s not forget about what a character Winslow is. We all know what he said in college. Then he came to the NFL and was injured. Came back from injury and told the NFL that he was the best tight end in the game. He has had a lot of stupid penalties because he plays with so much “heart”. I think this suspension will be a good tell tale. I honestly think the Browns offense may be able to play a more relaxed game Sunday without Winslow in the huddle. Maybe Winslow makes Edwards nervous and as a result he drops passes.Maybe DA will be more relaxed on the field without Winslow demanding the ball. I know that is pretty extreme but Winslow is no doubt an intense player.
Being a Browns fan I am always trying to find positives with what’s going on. Last week after the game I was thinking to myself. As badly as DA played and Braylon’s dropped passes the Browns had a chance to win the game. The defense looked great and are finally making plays.
Go Browns!
Everyone is quick to remind me that Derek Anderson didn’t deliver the playoffs last year. Neither did K2. I am not saying they have to run him out of town. In the article I wrote that it could go either way. My point is not that K2 is a problem when things are going well. My point is that maybe when things aren’t going well, he makes them WORSE.
These are things we don’t know. What we do know is that he called out the QB with his prima donna act on the field last week. I know a lot of you disagree with me, but this is not the way to be a good teammate. You don’t win friends, influence people and bring the best out of your situation when you act like a jerk.
The Pats are going badly this year and Cassell has killed them. Did anyone on that team call him out when he missed them on their routes? You know why not? BECAUSE IT DOESN’T HELP ANYBODY AT ALL!
One of my favorite quotes ever is, “It isn’t always good enough to be right.” That means that even if you are right, sometimes you should leave things unsaid. Even when things are going badly, being a negative nancy doesn’t help anybody at all.
I wouldn’t have a problem with K2 clearing the air on an injury if he didn’t try to indict the Browns organization in the process. It is harmful to their reputation and if you believe Phil Savage at all that it was a joint decision to keep the injury quiet then K2 is the one who didn’t show proper respect here.
Just because he is supremely talented doesn’t mean he should get a free pass. Phil Savage doesn’t get a free pass either. I still blame him for not firing Romeo 27,000 times by now. In the case of the rogue player trying to smash the organization, I am on Phil’s side.
You’re the only one talking about chemistry. Ask the players on the team…..show me one time a player on this team has ever spoken about K2 creating chemistry problems. His teammates love him, and if the players like having K2 on the team, then I like having K2 on this team.
There are about 10 other points I think you’re way off base on here, but I don’t feel like spending the entire day arguing again. 🙂
This line of questioning is definitely interesting to me because I do believe that Winslow is a great offensive player who can make some really tough catches, but I also think the Browns might be better off trading him for a simarly talented player at a position where we don’t have nearly as much depth. We have quality tight ends in Steve Heiden, Darnell Dinkins, and a young Martin Rucker who could end up being better than the other two. Winslow is one of the worst blocking tight ends in the league… so much so that he is almost always split out wide in offensive formations where his combination of size and quickness is a sweet mismatch for opposing defenses. His TD totals have never been great though, particularly for a player with 80+ catches each year he’s been healthy. I wouldn’t mind at all if the Browns traded Winslow for someone like Aaron Kampman in Green Bay or Robert Mathis in Indy or another player who will help with our pass rush. Particularly someone who can play next to the nose tackle in the 3-4.
If I was K2, I’d be upset with this so called organization too! At least he can be depended on to catch the damn ball when it’s thrown in his direction. The fluke against the Giants really means nothing at this point.
Winslow may have caused most of his own injury problems with the motorcycle accident, but name one person who shows more heart on the field with this team. He is one of those guys who would cut off their finger to play the game.
“Maybe Winslow makes Edwards nervous”
I’m sorry, but this may be the worst excuse ever for leading the league in dropped passes. Also, Winslow being off the field will not help D.A. find the reads that he’s been missing repeatedly all year. These are professional athletes, if a teammates presence bothers them, then they may be in the wrong line of work.
disappointing post. suck it savage
Great post….Did Terry Pluto join the WFNY staff??
No, but I did rip off one of his story models with the questions and answers. It is a really fun one to do.
The funniest thing about all of this is that we all are angry and arguing, but we all want the same things. It is like when Sean and Jerry were arguing about Will in “Good Will Hunting” yelling at each other. We all just want Will to maximize his potential and be something great.
I need to listen to some Elliott Smith music now. Maybe Miss Misery. 🙂
I am angry, but thanks Craig for trying to smooth this out. I just think this has hit a chord with alot of people because this problem opens up discussion on alot of issues. Staph infections, how an organization should weigh issues on whether they should be public or not (something that affects more teams than just the Brown’s), and team chemistry, just to name a few. You addressed a few of those. I think, winning season or not, this issue is going to persist. Savage would do well to handle this carefully. That press release was not one way to do it.
My biggest concern is the staph infections. Some people say its not a big deal because they could’ve come from anywhere. The Cleveland Clinic, public spaces, the Brown’s locker room. But 6 cases should be a concern. Maybe other teams are better at being mum on it (see paragraph above), but this is both a medical problem and an issue problem. I wonder if players are going to start using the Staph issue when weighing whether or not to come to Cleveland. This is an issue that could be better handled now that its out in the open, unjustified or not. I think the first place to start is: why are so many Cleveland Browns getting Staph infections? And I would like this to be answered by giving more than a run-of-the-mill answer of whats been done…people usually see through that easily.
Chris M
It was more or less a joke. Did you read the whole comment? “Looking for positives” It’s bad enough the team is where they are at this point in the season. Now the NFL is talking about Cleveland and their outbreak of staph infections. We just suspened one of our best players and honsetly who knows what will happen with Kellen in the future. We know Kellen is not happy being suspended.
Does it get any worse? Fans are looking for a quarterback change and possibly firing the head coach. What else could go wrong?
I personally have always liked Winslow. When I was down in Cleveland for a few weeks, I bought his jersey and wear it around town up here. I was glad when we drafted him, as opposed to nearly every other person other than Thomas lately. I don’t think he is a cancer to team chemistry, as his teammates like him, but maybe he is going a little overboard lately.
I don’t like some of the antics. His actions on the field remind me of TO. He is probably our most talented player. But this offseason might be time to see what we can get for him.
We all know how badly we need linebackers, corners, and playmakers all over. I think the most important thing to find out the rest of the season is what we have in Rucker. He needs to be playing more often from here on out. Many teams don’t seem to feature TEs anymore and do just fine. Both teams in the Super Bowl last year didn’t have a big time TE. So maybe his value isn’t as great as it would have been previously.
I don’t know, I am torn on this issue. I could go either way. I like Winslow, I want him on the team, but maybe it is time to move on.
I wonder how many of the problems with Winslow’s “attitude” would be eliminated if we had a QB who could complete passes and a WR getting a large portion of the passes was actually catching them. We need a QB who can pass and be smart enough to not throw to a guy who won’t catch.
Mark:
I find it especially dangerous with Cleveland teams EVER to ask “What else could go wrong?” Because, there’s always SOMETHING we’ve not thought of.
I am pretty torn up about this issue, mainly because I love K2 but really wish he would be more mature sometimes. To those who say they should line him up in the slot more often, the reason they don’t do that more often is because he is more effective when he has linebackers covering him as opposed to safeties or corners, and that happens more often when he is on the line. Not that I don’t think they should put him in the slot ever, but he isn’t a WR so you can’t just keep him out there every time. I think if we did trade Winslow we could get a similar package as to what the Lions got for Roy Williams, probably a little less because he is a TE not a WR but not much. Anything less than a first round pick would disappoint me because Winslow is a pro-bowl TE; has Williams ever made it to a pro-bowl? He might have, I can’t recall, but I don’t think he has
I think the reason nobody is criticizing Savage during this season of turmoil is because people think that talent isn’t the reason this team is losing, but rather coaching
It’s unlikely that the Browns will get a similar deal to what the Lions got, in my opinion. The Cowboys were in a rare position that they had stockpiled the draft picks to be able to afford to trade a bunch of them away. Most teams don’t have that luxury.
K2 is a top three TE in the NFL. Say all you will about heart and “team-first concept,” but this team is a significantly weaker one without him. Draft picks are unstable — with K2 we KNOW we have a superstar.
And so what if we do go out and play a great game without him this weekend? We played a great game with him last Monday, and look where that got us against the ‘Skins.
I got ya Mark, but in my worst nightmare Edwards is standing in front of a camera saying that.
@Rock:
I think they wouldn’t be able to get as much because he and Williams are the same age, but Winslow’s football body is much, much older. His long-term career is much, much shorter, and thus wouldn’t warrant as much in return, IMHO.
From SI’s Dr.Z’s power rankings after his rank of the Browns at 27:
“Kellen Winslow’s ailment was revealed as a staph infection. Four other Browns have suffered from a similar problem since 2005. What was the club’s reaction? He shouldn’t have talked to the press. This is like the official reaction to torture at Abu Gharib. Not that it took place, but that the information got out. Great.”
Pretty much. Count me in as a member of Team Winslow on this one.
Winslow was open on the first Fourth & Goal from the one. DA didn’t look his way and should have.
We would rather have a bunch of go-with-the-flow types rather than some one that won’t accept losing? This does not make sense. NOBODY in the organization should accept losing.
Is this what this season has brought us to? Having imaginary conversations with ourselves about specific players on the roster? God help us all…lol
I wonder if fans in Pittsburgh do this.
No. Pittsburgh fans can’t read or write. Duh.
Point taken. Hahaha