About That Bullpen
April 2, 2008Fabulous Fausto
April 3, 2008Do Cleveland fans have a right to boo former players?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4laFinC8myA[/youtube]
This is going to end bloody. Let me first say that all views and opinions of Mr. Levine are not necessarily shared by the founders of WaitingForNextYear. We are however, going to be featuring the short segments that NEON produces each week night during the baseball season. Whether you agree with the opinions or not, your comments are welcome and appreciated.
I do not agree with Les on this one, though I do not boo Jim Thome when he comes to Cleveland. In fact, I stood and applauded Jim’s 500th home run. Fans have the right as I see it to boo or cheer whoever they want. Many felt betrayed be Thome and Manny Ramirez, and certainly there was reason to be disappointed with what happened there. I will say that I have been to Jacob’s Field when Thome has returned and I didn’t hear as much booing for him as say Manny or Carlos Boozer. But that’s enough of my opinion, what do you think?
(Please remember that we are trying to be somewhat family friendly here…)
23 Comments
Tell me when its safe to come out. Wow.
I’ll say this…..in fact, I said it one of my posts once…..the Indians offer to Thome was a joke. Rather than offer him money and years, they offered him naming rights and statues. That being said, though, Thome made a choice and its obvious why fans don’t like him anymore. I appreciate what he did while in Cleveland, but to this day I can’t stand watching him play, and I do take joy in the fact that the Indians have since built themselves into an AL power while Thome was dwindled away on mediocre teams.
i feel as that “bloody” comment was pinted at me rick…
i COMPLETELY disagree with lesS on this one. i think the fact that i am a fan of the indians is the exact reason that i boo thome, manram, joey belle (before retirement), and anyone else who left cleveland. they’re not a part of my team anymore, so why cheer? manram was very clear about the money expectations. he wanted to get paid. fine. he still chose to go to the hated sox, and i don’s boo him nearly as much as i do thome.
that butthole (there’s ur family friendly) stated in a press conference that “you will have to rip this jersey off my back”, only to sign the exact deal with philly that we offered, with the only diff being that they offered an option year for a sixth year. how’d that work out for you jim? still with the philli….oh wait, you don’t play for them anymore do you?
rock and i have discussed this many a time. he knows my opinion is actually stronger than what i have even stated here. and in case it wan’t clear yesterday, i REALLY don’t like les levine…in fact, i’m gonna start booing him now too
rocks comment came up while i was typing…i remember the offer being within a couple million of eachother, the only difference was that option year. if i’m wrong on that i take that part back, but none of the other stuff…lol
At the 11th hour the Indians did bump up their offer to make it close to Philly’s offer, minues the last year. But the damage had been done. Thome was hurt by the initial low ball offer.
Now, that being said, I have no problems with people boo’ing him. Patrick is right, Thome did make some awfully strong statements to lead us all on into thinking he was going to stay. I’ll never forget when I first heard that he signed with Philly. It was a knife to the stomach. If he really wanted to stay, he could have taken the Indians’ final offer.
Oh, and Patrick is right, too, in that he really toned it down for these comments. Jim Thome is a subject that gets Patrick REALLY fired up.
family friendly Rock, family friendly
Actually Patrick, that bloody comment was meant for everyone, because I can’t imagine Les getting ANY support for this one. I certainly don’t agree with his opinion here. (In fact I somewhat wonder if that is how he really feels, or if he is just trying to stir the pot.)
As an expat Clevelander who only manages to get to a handful of games a year (but watches/listens to as many as possible thanks to the wonders of the internets), I have to admit not completely understanding the Thome hate. Yeah, he left town. Yeah, he was (at the time he left) likely the most popular figure in Cleveland. Yeah, it was money based. Okay, perhaps a little resentment I’d understand. But still.. booing the guy five years down the line?
Personal anecdote: Some time in (I believe) 1990, my family was in line at a ticket counter in Hopkins. No idea where we were going. I was thirteen at the time. In front of us — in the coach line — is a somewhat muscular guy with a bat bag with Chief Wahoo on it. My dad (who, like all of us here I’m sure, taught me my love for the game) decides to strike up a conversation with this guy: “So, you hoping to play for the Tribe?” The guy turns around, noticed my dad, breaks into a big grin and sticks out his hand. “Hi, I’m Jim Thome — yeah, I’m with their farm team in [I think] Kinston” They talked amicably for the next five minutes or so, until it was his turn to talk to a ticket agent. Of course, being thirteen, I was mortified at my dad’s brazenness, and spent the entire conversation pretending I was invisible. Besides, who was this guy, right? Some nobody in class-A ball.
My dad started telling this story to anyone who would listen. Thought this Jim Thome guy had to be one of the nicest people in sports. When Thome got called up to the majors, my dad was practically living vicariously through him.
I can’t hate on a guy who’d spend his time chatting with some random crazy who tapped him on the shoulder in line at the airport, even if he *was* at that time “some nobody in class-A”.
Patrick, I fully realize I’m on the boo-list now too. Ah well. At least Thome grounded into his second DP in two at-bats while I was typing this đ
Not only do I feel that it is ok to boo members of the opposing team, especially those that once played for your favorite team, I am 100% ok with booing people on my favorite team. I cheered when Tim Couch got hurt, and I booed every time Larry Hughes touched the ball. And of course I’ve booed the likes of Carlos Boozer and Jim Thome. I reserve the right to boo any player on any team for doing things that I deem unsatisfactory, be it betray my favorite team, or just suck in general. Hell, even both, in the case of Albert Belle
I’m actually gonna have to be the one to agree with Les on this one. Put yourself in his shoes. I don’t care what any of you say. But once presented with the kind of money Philly put on the table to him, anyone of you would have been gone when Cleveland didn’t come close. They offered him a joke of a contract. We have no right to boo him for what he did. I know I would have done the same thing. In their cases, you’re talking about the livelihood of your family for a long time to come once your gone. Education, well being, and an easier life for the most part. Why on earth would he sacrifice his family for that? Family is #1, not supposed loyalty to Cleveland, especially not after they offer a garbage contract.
*joe, u r not at all on my boo list. i respect everyone’s opinion even if i don’t agree (cough cough jeremy). the bottom lineof all of this is this guy spilled hist heart to us saying things like i stated above.
and don’t go latrell sprewell on me and talk to me about supporting his family. whatever contract an average mlb player gets is enough to support a village in africa, so i think he’ll be able to do well for his “rock” of a wife *sniff*sniff*
one more thing, i have heard that thome is a heck of guy off the field, and the story above just supports that more. that still doesn’t change my opinion. i will boo him till he retires.
Haha….I love that Patrick pulled out that “rock” comment. Love it. I remember that line vividly.
I actually agree with Les as well. Watching the Twins/Angels game the other night, Torii Hunter got a standing ovation. How is his situation any different? The fans realize that that guy busted his ass for eight solid years, endured the ups and downs, and then had to move on. Thome did the same. ManRam, the same. Belle, I can agree with booing simply because of his demeanor. He’s right there with Bonds.
Would you boo LeBron if he were to sign with another team down the road? If so, I think it’s ridiculous after all of the wins he has provided this Cleveland franchise. And if Thome were to reconsider his HoF team declaration, I wouldn’t fault him one bit.
Didn’t Jim Thome say “they should boo me, I’m not playing for the Indians” when he first returned as a visitor? Six years in our sports history is nothing, so don’t expect rose petals to be thrown at you after year five.
That being said, if he suddenly got traded back to us for pennies on the dollar we’d still be naming stuff after him. We’re fickle that way.
I once sat in the lower box seats at The Jake during a Yankees series… this cat in the row in front of me was throwing down beers and screaming every insult in the book at the first base coach for two consecutive half-innings. At the end of the second half-inning the first base coach gets a ball and goes to toss it in the crowd, and the drunk guy goes all “Oh! Oh! Here! Throw it to me dude!”
The moral of the story could be either:
1. If you’ve got balls, people will respect you; or
2. Get over it Thome. They’re mostly drunk people making a cool noise.
Some of you have so clearly never played a serious game of baseball in your lives. You know who you are. Feel free to vent your vitriolic (if not childish) spew at the father who never said “I love you”. But a ball-player?
Bush took a Bronx cheer on opening day. Now that’s well placed methinks.
If there is one thing that is true in Cleveland, it’s that we never forget. It seems like all of us have “that” story that dates back to a child watching Cleveland sports. So even though it’s been six years since Thome turned his back on Cleveland, it’s not even close to being out of my mind. I have to say that I don’t actively boo Jim Thome because he does seem like a nice guy, but I do take pleasure in seeing him play on unsuccessful teams. The only person from that era that I’ll always boo is Manny Rameriez; needless to say that the way he left was tasteless in the eyes of tribe fans, and on top of that his arrogance just begs ridicule.
see sarah, i knew i really did like u…
For as much money as players make, I have no problems with people boo’ing. I believe paying your hard earned dollar for your ticket gives you the right to do so.
I do have a problem when people boo amateurs (college players).
it depends on the situation. thome, in my eyes, gets a pass because the team was horrendous and wouldnt be competitive until he was older and didnt want to mortgage their future for one big hitter.
manny left when they were rollin’ for only a little more cash…personally tho, i just cant hate manny.
boozer…haha. if they let me take my bag of D batteries into the Q, id knock him out, no joke. guy is a GRADE A jerk (fixed) and deserves it.
if a guy leaves because of a mutual parting between him and the organization, it’s ok. CC is probably going to leave because the Tribe’s philosophy doesn’t roll with giving guys such a large salary when they’re declining in production, so i cant hate on CC. But if LeBron leaves to NY when the Cavs offer him the max? oh, he’s getting booed, badly.
Thome told us it wasn’t about the money. We could have improved the team at the deadline that year by trading him, but we respected him too much to ask him to waive his no-trade clause because he kept stringing us along by saying he wanted to stay, they’d have to rip the jersey off his back, etc.
And then, when he acted, it was all about the money. And about using each successive Indians offer to squeeze more money and years out of Philadelphia. He had no intention of signing with the Indians.
If Jim Thome had come right out and said – “It’s all about the money” – like Manny and Belle did, I’d have a lot more respect for him.
With CC, he’s made it clear that it’s all about the money. He’s being honest and upfront with us. I can respect that.
And playing for the Whine Sox, at least he has more time to go hunting in the offseason.
I still boo Thome, but not as loudly as others. When he left it hurt, but at that point the 90s era was basically over. Now with a 20/20 view on things, signing him long term would have been a hinderance to this current team.
The thing that I think riles most was that he actually said he wanted to stay, which wasn’t necessarily the case.
I didn’t say “support his family.” I said improve the livelihood of his family after he’s gone. If you could do something right now that would ensure that your kids and grandkids and even great grandkids would have a great life, would you do it? I know I would, as would most everyone on here. This is not like Spreewell at all, mostly because he was an idiot. Thome was a classy guy and did a lot for this team and the community. Why boo him?
I don’t think this is too offtopic since someone mentioned his name…
I don’t know. I don’t claim to really know anything much about sports. But I guess I try to think about the people in the situation and the situation itself. Joe talked about talking to Jim Thome in the ticket line and how nice he seemed. I had a similar experience with an Indians player when I was young. I think it was the last season of the old Indians stadium (a big fan here…obviously because I can’t recall the name of the stadium and am too lazy to look it up :-P). The Indians lost that night. My family and I were walking to where we parked, and we came across the entrance where the team was going to come out to the bus. We hopped in amongst the other people to catch a glimpse of players as they came out. They started to come out and go to the bus. Many of them didn’t pay any attention to the fans gathered to see them. Some stopped and signed a few autographs and moved on. But there was one guy who stopped and signed every autograph he could.
It was Albert Belle.
I think it was the next season he ended up elsewhere because of more money. But I can’t blame him. If I was able to do the same job somewhere else for more money, I’d probably take it as well.
It’s too bad Albert Belle ended up being some weirdo stalker creep, because I loved to use that story as an example of trying to put yourself in someone else’s shoes.