While We’re Waiting… Varejao on Shaq, Buckeyes D-Line, and the 2009 NCAA BlogPoll
August 28, 2009Marshall Supsended: We Wanted This Guy?
August 28, 2009
While the big boys like the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, and Tigers are busy battling for playoff position, your Cleveland Indians continued to toil in relative obscurity while playing their best ball of the season. Last night’s series opener in Baltimore was not considered “must see TV” unless you have a sickness for your baseball team the way I do. After all, this was two of the worst teams in the American League doing battle. However, the game certainly didn’t lack for drama.
Did my eyes deceive me, or did I really watch Andy Marte hit a two-out, two-run home run in the ninth inning with his team trailing by one? I didn’t dream that did I? That’s right, the man we all left for dead this past winter is enjoying a renaissance season which continued last night with his big blast off of Orioles closer Jim Johnson, giving the Indians a 5-4 win at Camden Yards. “Over the plate, that was a mistake,” said the Tribe first baseman. “I know I hit it good, but I didn’t think it was going to go out. Enough to score the run from first, but better — a better result.”
That runner on first was rookie Matt LaPorta, who hit a 3-2 pitch up the middle to keep the game alive, giving Marte a chance to do his thing. “Our two kids really battled,” Manager Eric Wedge said. “LaPorta did a great job shooting that single up the middle. And so did Andy.” And how. Marte jumped ahead 3-0 before eventually taking Johnson’s 3-2 fastball over the wall in left. He finished the night with two hits – a triple being the other – two runs, and two huge RBI’s.
Kerry Wood pitched the ninth for his 17th save.
I know Marte was tearing up AAA and that shouldn’t matter since he had been there during three different seasons, but he is still just 25 years old and no longer carries the burden of franchise savior (that distinction currently belongs to LaPorta). He had 30 teams pass on him during the offseason, a humbling experience for the one time “can’t miss ” third base prospect. Now he can just relax and play loose, let the game come to him. Over the last week, he has done just that. In seven games, Marte is hitting .385 (10-26) with two homers and seven RBI’s. He’s also done a solid job at first base.
His AAA partner in crime, LaPorta, has hit safely in all eight games (10-30) since his arrival.
The Indians took a 1-0 lead on a Grady Sizemore leadoff shot, the 21st of his career. They jumped ahead again 2-1 after Sizemore’s ground-out scored Marte. Starter Aaron Laffey, pitching in front of family and friends in his home state, couldn’t get out of the sixth inning as the Orioles jumped ahead 3-2 on a two out RBI double by Luke Scott. Overall, the lefty was effective yet again. “He had good stuff tonight,” Wedge said. “He walked a couple of people, but he pitched well.”
Rookie phenom Matt Wieters added Oriole insurance by jacking a solo blast off of Jess Todd in the seventh. In the eighth, the Tribe battled back thanks to a two-out RBI double from Shin-Soo Choo, scoring Sizemore who was everywhere on this muggy night in Baltimore. Grady was 3-5 raising his average to .250 for the first time since May 2nd.
Rafael Perez was the winning pitcher, dealing an inning and two thirds of scoreless relief in front of Wood.
This night, however, was all about Marte. That ninth inning blast was the biggest hit of his under-achieving career. “He had to throw me a ball on the plate because I got Grady behind me,” Marte said. “As soon as I get 3-1, I know he’s going to throw something over the plate.”
Tonight the Tribe looks to keep the momentum going with Fausto Carmona on the hill.
(phot by Gail Burton/AP)
34 Comments
Kudos to Andy Marte. For the life of me I’ve not been able to understand why he hadn’t been installed DAILY since his recall, having to watch what could have been meaningful major league AB’s go to the likes of Hack Giminez. He’s earned his shot this year……….leave the kid in the lineup. (sounds like a familiar refrain).
How many of you continue to poke at Marte as a “AAAA” player, etc.? He’s now up to .275 after given a streak of PT. Let’s see what he’s got……..can he be any worse than Jhonny?
Despite the dumpster that this season has turned into, the Indians are once again making the most out of a bad situation. Being overly optimistic about the team, as I always am, it seems that the Tribe may have figured out their corner infielders for next season. While neither Marte or Peralta have hit for a lot of power this year (has anyone talked about Peralta’s power drain this year?) they both have the potential/ability to hit 25+ HRs. Marte and LaPorta’s emergence, along with the rise of Sweet Luis and A Cab, have possibly (I can’t stress possibly enough) solidified the Indians lineup to a point where perhaps Wedge won’t be able to do what he loves most and platoon players next year.
Now all we can hope for is Carrasco coming up in September and proving that he has front of the rotation stuff. I know it would be ridiculous to assume Carrasco will step in and become an instant ace, but maybe he could become a solid number 2.
Final thought. I am really glad to see Grady Sizemore finally coming around at the plate, but he needs to call it a season if his elbow problems are as serious as people have said. They need to be proactive about this situation and not let it linger like they did with Hafner.
I’m all for parking Marte’s butt in the line-up as often as possible and seeing what can happen. I’m not completely sold on the guy (his swing still looks a bit longish/slowish), but there’s no doubt that he at *least* offers a glimmer of hope for the future.
I think the Indains know what they have in Crowe (a servicable extra outfielder who runs well) but I don’t think they know what they have in Marte…so I sure hope Wedge doesn’t cannibalize Marte’s ABs if/when Crowe gets back off the DL (with some sort of Crowe in LF/LaPorta at 1B deal).
Now, if they wanted to put Crowe in CF and shut Grady’s wonky elbow down for the rest of the season, I’d be OK with that…
Yes, Isis. Meaningful major league at bats…that’s what these are.
Perhaps they’re trying to straighten out who’s gonna be on the 40 man roster for next year (we already basically know who’s gonna be on the 25 man, I think)? With all the additions to the club–we’ve dropped 5 players and added 12 or so–we’re going to have to have auditions for the 40 man right now, when at bats are MEANINGLESS, not MEANINGFUL. Hence Giminez v Torregas, Crowe (when he was here), Shoppach (should we offer arbitration–probably not, but I bet they’re evaluating that right now).
I’m not sure I agree with the strategy, but to just assume that the Indians management is entirely stupid and you have all the answers is a bit…silly.
Marte is absolutely raking…but I fear that when he comes across the more dominant pitchers, the Becketts, etc, I think he will be overmatched…his swing is still long, he still bails out on too many brekaing pitches…he is this year’s Shopphack…he picks out the fastballs because he’s cheating on them…he definitely has some pop in his bat, but I havent seen him go the other way too much…his D leaves a lot to be desired at first, as was seen last night when he should have came off the bag to smother the ball on the DP attempt that let he of nimble feet Ty Wiggles score…granted, hes learning, but again, you need to know the situation youre in when playing…he seems a little spaced out at times…
Watching these games is great…I thoroughly enjoy watching this young team and like seeing progress being made…
LaPorta still strikes me as an outfielder, but its been said he played 1b previously in college, so I dont think the learning curve will be as bad as Marte’s, whom I dont believe had prior experience there…
I think Sizemore’s resurgence, or at least better AB’s, have stemmed from him no longer feeling like he has to be the table setter with the emergence of Cabrera…I would still like to see Choo lay off those high and tight pitches, rather than try to pull them or miss them completely…his swing is too long to get around on the high and tights…just hope the league doesnt catch one to it (although assuredly, they have)…
Hafner still seems to fish for breaking pitches more now than ever before…it doesnt seem to me like he picks up the spin as well anymore…how many of those horrific emergency half-a$$ed swings where he rockets it at a 90 degree angle away from the plate to the seats right behind the dugout or at the ballboy have you seen? seems like he is trying to anticipate pitches rather than see ball hit ball…hopefully thats a bi-product of the injury…
Laffey looked good, and technically, probably should have only give up 1 runs, maybe two…if not for a poor fielding decision by Marte, and inexplicably giving up a HR to the 74 yr-old Melvin Mora…the Luke Scott double was a mistake as well, and Scott even looked fairly surprised he actually hit it…Todd still scares me a tad, as his slider hasnt had the tilt on it that it had previously…dont know if maybe hes getting tired from a full season…
also worth noting…the last pitch thrown, with men on base, by Wood, was a huge bending breaking ball…the only reason I mention it is this…had that been Shopphack catching, I GUARENTEE that ball goes back to the backstop…but…as luck would have it, wedge pulled the Windmill for a pinch hitter, and then inserted the far superior defensive catcher Toregas…who in kind, did what you are taught to do, fundamentally, which Shopphack is too lazy to do, and that is to square up with your body, and slide over to where the pitch was going to hit the dirt, use your chest to deaden it, and then pick it up and tag the batter…textbook…game over…
forgive my typos – I’m glad its Friday…
“Kerry Wood pitched the ninth for his 17th save.”
That’s like Marty taking over for the in the bag Harry Doyle and saying “Fly Ball. Caught.”
Wood had to get at least 4 outs, maybe 5 if Carroll doesn’t try to make a play on a ball probably going foul. Why can’t instant replay be used for the final out of a game at 1st base? Football, Basketball, Tennis, and even Hockey would have made the right call (unless it was a Jackets game, then the guy still would’ve been safe and probably allowed to advance to third for interference).
Emailing DP Diesel earlier I brought up how optimistic I’d be for next year if they had only done the DeRosa/Vmart deals. You’d still have Masterson, Perez, Todd and also an actual Ace going into the year. Who knows what Carrassco will do, and hopefully he is great, but I really like how everything except the rotation looks going into next year.
*Monty
somebody here said that Marte would become Brandon Phillips for us when he got called back up…in that he revives his career many left for dea….just that he’s still an Indian
kudos on that call…still a good glove, now he has some bat.
Jon S.-sorry, it sure makes better sense to give AB’s to Giminez-we’ve hardly seen enough of him. Better also to give AB’s to Crowe since he was a #1 pick, even though the bat gets sawed right out of his hands.
Jon-you’re right, Wedge/Shapiro & co. have a higher plan that’s only apparent to you; therefore it’s entirely appropriate to call up Marte (and LaPorta) and feed their potential AB’s at this level to guys like Giminez.
Nice call.
Nice to see Marte get the big hit. While I agree with DK that the league might catch up with him, it’s a risk worth taking and I’m very happy to see him produce. I always enjoy seeing players whose star has faded redeem themselves.
I agree with Isis that it was pretty ridiculous for Gimenez to be getting regular playing time over the past two months. It doesn’t seem that he’s started much recently, so hopefully we’ve seen the last of him for awhile. Here’s hoping that Wedge just pencils LaPorta and Marte into the lineup and leaves them alone for a bit.
I also worry what might happen when Crowe returns. He seems like a fourth outfielder at best, and I hope that he doesn’t steal playing time from Marte/LaPorta when he’s activated.
Chris Giminez is putting together one of the worst offensive seasons of any player with at least 100 ABs in recent history. I’m kinda hoping the question on what role he plays on next year’s team has already been answered.
In his last 14 games, he is 2 for 45 (.044). That kinda ends the argument right there for me, regardless of how “versatile” he is.
I can’t help but imagine Isis complaining and whining about Marte when he was up here however many other times…that he was taking AB’s away from __________ insert whoever he was sharing time withs name here…
and what I find horribly funny, is that Isis is SOOOOO ready to write off Gimenez after 97 career major league ABs, yet seems to have patience now with Marte after he has been the biggest disappointment for 2 years…if thats not the pot calling the kettle black, i dont know what is…i am not annointing Gimenez the savior, or the answer, but as far as sheer physical strength, its been said that he is as strong as anyone on the team…not to mention he had a staph infection where they almost had to amputate his leg in 06…and he won a minor league home run derby as well…so the kid hasnt tore it up in the Show yet…97 ABs is a small sample…if you advocate “leaving people in the lineup to get meaningful ABs” and this guy is 26…youre ready to give up on him already? its a good thing youre not a GM…you’d never have anyone playing if they scuffled upon their callup…
DK-
1.) Get the facts straight, ok? Never ONCE here or elsewhere have I ever
suggested Marte was either taking AB’s from someone else or should
not have been given a chance. The fact is he’s hardly played regularly
at any of his Indian’s stops. Absurd statement.
2.) Horribly funny to write off Giminez? Oh yea…..he’s a “big physical
speciman”. Now how horribly funny is that?! Oh yea…..he’s a tough kid
who just hasn’t shown it yet. Abysmally funny!
DK…….good thing you’re not a talent scout. Your hope and emotion gets in the way of what’s in front of you. I’ll stand by what I’ve seen in Giminez……..and my baseball accumen. I’m guessing you’re barely 25 years of age (and that’s a guess) based on your innate baseball talent sleuthing.
In many ways, Isis, I agree–Giminez has not ever been particularly exciting. But what we need to figure out is who to put on the 40 man for next year. Giminez is making that decision fairly easy for us right now, but we still need to find out with whom it’s time to cut ties this offseason.
For example, let’s think about Giminez, your whipping boy. Assume we do the right thing, and don’t offer Shoppach arbitration, so he’s gone. For the 25 man, that leaves us with Marson and Torregas as our catchers in 2010. Now, management doesn’t want to waste one of Santana’s option years if they don’t have to, so they’d like to keep him off the 40 man if possible next year, and leave his 40 man (and 25 man) status untouched going into 2011. But that’s only possible if they’re convinced Giminez can be a third catcher if injuries present themselves (i.e. he’d have to be on the 40 man).
You with me yet?
Oh,,,,,just remembered, I do believe DK is the astute observer who both proclaimed Marte a “AAAA” player as well as the National League a “AAAA” league.
That explains it. If the shoe fits, wear it.
actually, I’ve never made that reference. but thanks for trying!
nice use of the commas though. I really paused repeatedly while reading. hehe
Squabble squabble squabble.
Just wanted to make a contribution to this conversation.
Jon…….I’m saying and have said that Marte and LaPorta should be in the lineup every day. They both have had high level evaluations and skill sets that need to be tested. The other guys do not have that type of impact background and potential and should not be slammed into the equation just because someone considers them “grinders”. In the end it’s about talent evaluation, and that’s what separates the winners from the losers. In my opinion……it’s a total waste to give AB’s to guys like Giminez and Crowe while you MUST find out definitively about Marte and LaPorta. I’m not concerned about who is going to be the THIRD catcher or utility man at the expense of the above………I can find third catchers and utility men EASILY.
How come good teams that draft much lower than the Indians come up with proven big leauge talent from their farm systems? Just example….Boston Red Sox: Clay Buchholz, Daniel Bard, Justin Pedrioa, Manny Delcarmen……….what have the Indians come up with in that same time frame? (please don’t say Trevor Crowe).
DK –
Normally, I agree with you a great deal, but I gotta say I’m on the other side with this one. In prior years the Indians let Andy Marte sit out there and scuffle for two reasons: his label as a “top prospect” and the fact that (at the time) there was no one besides Casey Blake to plug in at 3B (although you could make the argument that they could have moved Peralta to 3B, Cabrera to SS and given Barfield a shot @ 2B, but we all know that wasn’t happening because of the way Wedge feels about Barfield).
The reason Chris Gimenez should NOT be getting another at bat this year is because the Indians DO have other, better options…and right now, Marte, LaPorta, Jordan Brown…hell, even Trever Crowe if he’s healthy…are all better options than Gimenez at a variety of positions on the diamond
I just feel like Gimenez is a symbol of what’s wrong with Eric Wedge…he gets it in his mind that there are players he “likes” and will ride them all the way to the gates of hell if he can regardless of performance and/or talent level (see Dellucci, David) even if there are better options out there.
It’s nothing personal against Gimenez, though the numbers speak for themselves; he hasn’t just struggled against ML pitching, he’s reached levels of ineptitude that not even Marte saw during his struggles in 2007/2008.
And don’t say CC Sabathia, Victor Martinez, or Jhonny Peralta……all were drafted by John Hart.
by the way Isis…youre way off on the age…
also – I said “I can’t help but imagine ” i did not say you DID say that…lol…do you read half of the posts or what you write???
as for hope and emotion, if you want to constantly be one of the many people who find the negative in everything, thats fine…my hope and emotion is just fine for me…all I ever see from you is negativity and nothing other than a grumpy old man…its ok though chief, its your deal…its your life…
as for Gimenez, he can play just about any position, and is a good kid…whats wrong with keeping a group together that is winning games? whether or not he hits .300 at this point doesnt matter to me if he is part of what is winning games…if there’s someone else you know of in the minors that can play multiple positions, catch, and seems to be ok with anything that is thrown at him, then you let me know…i dont mind the kid getting a crack at it…its not like anyone else on this team seems to tickle your fancy as far as being a quality player…or wait, maybe its just because you never have anything positive to say, so who would know?
I’ll say this again Isis, you seem to be completely clueless with what an athlete goes thru or does on a day to day basis…you seem to think theyre completely robotic and are going to be able to perform as if they were in a vaccuum…who knows what happens outside the field as far as family and real life with these guys…all you know is that they suck and that theyre horrible…almost having your leg amputated would seem like a pretty big deal and would take many years to fully recover from…after countless injuries from various athletics ive been a part of in HS and in college, I can attest to things never being quite right afterwards…
but again, you know me right? you think im in my 20s and have rose colored glasses on, while youre the zen-like 60 yr-old know it all right? i forgot, everything you say is right…my bad…youre also the guy who wants to can Mangini before he even coaches a regular season game right?
Isis,
Let’s say LaPorta bats .210 the rest of the way. What does that tell you? Do you cut him next year? Do you keep in AAA? Do you trade him to Cincinnati for Brandon Philips?
No. He’s on the team. We know who’s on the team. What we’re trying to figure out is at the edges. Marte’s at the edges, Giminez is at the edges, Toregas, Crowe, Shoppach etc. That’s what we need to evaluate. Not LaPorta, Peralta, Sizemore, etc. They’re on the team. Do I think Marte should get a lot of ABs, yes. I think the same about those other guys too. Problem is, you can’t play 13 guys “everyday” (due to, ya know, the rules and stuff).
I’d like to know what we can expect from the peripheral players next year, and if you think you already know after fewer than 100 ABs, you’re just…well…wrong.
@JD – we’ve had other options at 3rd…but Marte was given that title of “3b of the future” so he was given the chance, repeatedly, but never hit for a lick, and looked slow and lost at 3rd…that hasnt changed…I am happy that he is finally hitting at the ML level as he deserves it after the constant bashing by countless “fans”…i hope he continues to progress to the kid we thought we were getting…
as for Gimenez, as I said before, I am not annointing him as the savior, or the answer, all I am saying is 97 ABs in the majors for a guy who is trying to carve out a utility spot is not a great sample…if you were to say he played in the same spot day in and day out and got a month or two of solid playing time at that position (say catcher), then yes, I would say you could accurately say he is not ready, or does not have it…but as it stands, I do not believe that you can say he has no shot based on spotty playing time and at various positions…its one thing to try to play 1-2 positions, but if they move you all over the place to where you dont know where, let alone if, you will be playing, as well as being your first journey into the Bigs, I dont see how you can say he has no talent or cant play…
I am not saying that he is going to be next year’s Jamey Carroll, who even thought Carroll would be playing as well as he has this year? raise your hand if you thought Carroll would be hitting near .300 this year…
I would like to think that while there are some kids that are naturally gifted, who can come into the Show and produce immediately, what are you going to do when or if they dont? If they call up Santana and the kid hits .150 after 100 AB’s are you going to say he is a bust? probably not…when they brought up that other kid a few years ago that we got from the Expos who when they called up in 04 ended up K’ing 25% of the time while hitting in the 240s and not hitting more than 10 HRs in the minors and seemed like he might not be all that great, was everyone ready to give up on him? course not…you wouldnt have sizemore…
Im not saying he is ready, but I’m saying you cant throw him into the group of busts just yet…
I usually agree with you, DK, but I still really question the logic behind giving Gimenez ABs.
My primary exhibit would be his AAA numbers — .257/.341/.396, for an OPS of .737. He’s 26 and has a very spotty minor league track record. I’m sure that he is a great kid and a hard worker and all, and heck, maybe I’m wrong and he does have a future as a major league bench player. Still, I would argue that the minor leagues is littered with versatile players like him.
There is the argument that he can catch, but I do not see the logic behind teams carrying a third catcher, anyway. And as I’ve said before, I’m not a big fan of the 13-pitcher roster setup that teams are using these days. If you go with a 4-man bench, you don’t have to be as dependent upon versatility.
Now, at this point I’m not really against Gimenez being on the roster per se; I just don’t want to see him steal ABs from anyone with a higher upside. It would be far less disturbing to see the Indians give up on Gimenez and watch him float around as a viable bench bat, then it would be to see the Indians give up on Marte and watch him become a legitimate everyday player.
Just my 2 cents.
JD – the second tour for Marte looked like this…
2007 23 CLE AL 20 60 57 3 11 4 0 1 8 0 0 2 9 .193 .233 .316 .549
career numbers –
5 Seasons 194 638 582 58 127 34 4 11 63 1 3 42 126 .218 .274 .347 .621
again, I am not saying Marte is a bust (never have), I am just reserving judgement for Gimenez…I never even heard of him prior to this year…just saying that I dont think we should give up on him just yet after 97 ABs…
Doracle – I do agree that if we had someone else, as you say, the minors are littered with them, then I am all for an upgrade…
what people tend to forget, is that players do enjoy days off as well, and the little dings and small injuries (bending a finger back when sliding into a base, or fouling a pitch off your foot, or getting hit by a pitch) take their tolls, and you cant necessarily bring up anyone from the minors on a whim to play the OF for a day or something…if Gimenez can fill the spot of filling in for multiple positions, then I say keep him around…
I am not advocating him taking a full-time roster spot, nor am I saying at this point he deserves to be on the ML roster…what I’m saying is, I dont think its fair to give up on him completely…if there is someone else that can play multiple positions, I’m all for giving him a try…
I also agree with the argument of how you fill out your roster…carrying the extra pitcher can handcuff your bench…
I do agree though that he is not a make or break type of guy, but if someone needs a day off, and he can play that position, and hes what we have for now…then I say let him play…
DK –
If you’re asking me not to give up on Gimenez as a potential bench bat that can play a few positions and has some pop from the right side, then I’m right with you.
If you want me to be OK with Gimenez taking away ABs from a guy like LaPorta who is the future of this team or Marte who is still young enough to maybe deliver on some of his early promise…then not so much.
I just wish the Indians would have had these two up here and playing regularly on August 1, instead of rope-a-doping Marte in-and-out of the lineup until a week ago and waiting for Crowe to get hurt before they gave LaPorta some run.
JD – I do agree with that…I am not saying he deserves to play more than LaPorta…
If you’re asking me not to give up on Gimenez as a potential bench bat that can play a few positions and has some pop from the right side, then I’m right with you.
thats exactly what I’m saying…
as for LaPorta – the beginning of the season had a logjam of inept players ahead of him that had ML experience…Garko and Benny mainly…now that theyve been offloaded, hes getting his shot…I do wish he was up here earlier too, but he was not getting everyday AB’s and even by his own admission, he wasnt necessarily doing anything different, but was not getting everyday ABs and he needed them…I am actually glad they let him go back to AAA and get everyday ABs…hes still young, and I think that has helped him…if he would have stayed up longer and not gotten ABs, he might not be where he is today…I liked the move to let him play everyday in the minors while we sorted things out up here…i’m also glad hes playing more often now as well…
Ever since I wrote that the Indians should dump Marte he has been on a terror. Funny how those things work.
You know what the problem with the Indians is?
That you guys continously have to argue about guys that will probably never make a significant contribution on a contending big league club.
THAT is the problem with the Indians.
A few things.
1. Marte is a legitimate star.
2. It is pointless carrying a third catcher.
3. Sizemore needs to get off the field and worry about that elbow. In a dead-end season it is pointless to continue playing hurt.
4. Laporta needs to be in that lineup every game from here on. Get some consistent playing time. Get a feel for ML pitching. Be a stud next year.
5. Wedge needs to figure out his catcher. It is irritating watching a 3 game series being caught by 3 different guys.
6. Wedge and his inability to keep a stable lineup is the reason for most of these young kids inconsistencies.
7. I think if Gimenez would catch for a full series, then play in the field for next series. He would be hitting decent. That being said, decent for the Indians is .250… Like with Marte, he’s on this 7 game tear. And that is because of his consistent at bats.
8. Gimenez does have a lower ceiling than Marte. But we will never know what that ceiling ACTUALLY is until he can get some real playing time. I don’t want him playing over Marte or Laporta. But, I think we can play him at catcher day to day until we get a better read on him.
@ Glorious- “Marte is a legitimate star.” Um, no. I’m sorry, but let’s not use the word “star” to describe Marte. The question is whether he is consistent enough to warrant a roster spot going forward. Those that scoff at that suggestion should remember his miserable 2008 season.
I meant “Legitimate Star” as in his future. Not currently at the moment.