Buckeyes Roundball Roundup: stunned by FAU, bounce back vs. UConn
December 12, 2016The Inciting Incident’s Al Laiman – WFNY Podcast No. 564
December 12, 2016As the Browns and their fans are riding out the string without winning any games, what should their future hold? There’s news out there and without rehashing my Friday thoughts on Columbus, I have a new geography to talk about. Thanks, Cleveland Browns!
Browns fans to be tortured by Big Ben three times in 2017
First of all, I can’t listen to any beat reporter talk about the Browns going to London without considering they really want an excuse to update their passport and go to London to cover the game. That’s not to indict anyone because we’re all human. Alas, we’re all made of flesh, bone, and have some sense of self-interest. A trip to London on the company dime sounds awesome. This is a much bigger thing than a company trip, however. If the Browns play one of their away games in London, that’s one thing. If it’s a home game, that’s quite another.
In a lot of ways, it’s the perfect time to play a home game in London. You wouldn’t want to do it when the team is really good. Presuming the Browns have to take a turn playing a home game across the big continuous salty lake1 it’s probably the best time. I just don’t think it should ever be time to give away a home game to a foreign city.
The reason the NFL is so special in Cleveland is that it allows us to get together eight times a year in that stadium. The biggest proponents of public funding for stadiums rely on those appearances at the stadium because there’s never anything else happening there. To take one of those occurrences away from Cleveland in any season is a tough pill to swallow. It’s a missed opportunity for fans to go to games, and it’s a missed opportunity in terms of revenue in a building that doesn’t see a whole lot of activity.
Maybe I’m making too big a deal, but this feels wrong. It feels like an unnecessarily greedy shot at a city for some revenue expansion for which Clevelanders will never be a beneficiary. For this conversation to be happening in nearly the same breath as the training camp move to Columbus is eye-opening and jarring. Just as Browns fans are struggling to maintain some semblance of culture and sense of tradition in a seemingly never-ending void created by losing, they’re expected to stomach these foundation-rocking kinds of negative changes as well. You can say these changes are no big deal, and for some of you, it might not be.
Let’s not be confused.
These things aren’t meant to benefit anyone here who loves the Browns. Moving games to London is not intended to benefit anyone who has historically propped the Browns up with ticket or merchandise money. You can speak anecdotally about Browns fans in Europe or down in Columbus, but they’re anecdotes used like a hammer to pound this thing through in order to disguise it as something magnanimous.
This is all about “expanding the reach” or trying to fatten the revenue of the Cleveland Browns for Jimmy Haslam and his fellow NFL owners. It broadcasts loud and clear that in the NFL, the hometown fan base isn’t good enough. Our money and attention aren’t good enough to the billionaire class of dollar extractors that have bought up all the NFL real estate. If you’re alright with that, that’s your prerogative. Just don’t normalize it and tell me it should be acceptable to me as if I haven’t read The Lorax a hundred times.
I meant no harm. I most truly did not.
But I had to grow bigger. So bigger I got.
I biggered my factory. I biggered my roads.
I biggered my wagons. I biggered the loads
of the Thneeds I shipped out. I was shipping them forth
to the South! To the East! To the West! To the North!
I went right on biggering… selling more Thneeds.
And I biggered my money, which everyone needs.
The Browns are REALLY high
(on Myles Garrett)
Before the Browns lost their thirteenth game of the season on Sunday, reports surfaced that the Cleveland Browns have an astronomical grade on Texas A&M pass-rusher Myles Garrett. After watching an expletive-laden highlight video on YouTube, I can see why anyone might be excited by his work. That said, I don’t know if I can support a non-quarterback selection that high in the draft.
Quarterbacks are never in a vacuum, but…
I know RG3 looked bad in the snow on Sunday, but between a few flashes from him and competence from Cody Kessler I have a surprising view. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that this group of quarterbacks is better than any the Browns have had in recent memory.
It’s hard to isolate the quarterbacks away from the losses and play of other units, but my gut tells me that RG3 and Kessler with McCown as a backup under Hue Jackson is one of the strongest groups we’ve seen. You take these quarterbacks and put them in the Brian Hoyer slot with Pettine and Kyle Shanahan and the Browns might make the playoffs that season. Maybe. All that said, they’re not good enough to keep you from looking.
To draft a QB first or not
As it sits today, the Cleveland Browns would have the Nos. 1 and 9 picks in the draft. Assuming that holds, the Browns are supposed to get two great players this year. If one of those great players from the first round of the draft is not a quarterback, it’s a problem. Browns fans have debated the chicken or egg theory regarding team-building and quarterbacks as much as any NFL fanbase. The real bottom line is that you can’t miss on picks in the first round. A close second, however, is that you absolutely can’t miss on quarterbacks in the first round.
The Browns have selected quarterbacks 93, 22, 22, 85, 22, 67, 106, 183, and 1 since 1999. Tim Couch, of course, is that lone number one pick and if you average that out, the Browns have selected quarterbacks at about pick 66. When you go back over the names and think about how guys like Colt McCoy (6-15 record) and Charlie Frye (6-13 record) have some of the best win totals out of all Browns quarterbacks drafted, it’s downright depressing. Also considering the Browns have only ever used pick No. 22 to select a quarterback not named Tim Couch is mind-boggling.
It only qualifies as anecdotal evidence of No. 1 overall drafted Browns quarterbacks, but Tim Couch’s record with the team is 22-37. Despite losing his gig to Kelly Holcomb, his last three years he was 18-20. To this day Tim Couch is used as Exhibit A through Z as to why you must build the team before drafting the quarterback in Cleveland. Then again, if you’ve built the team you probably don’t have the No. 1 pick.
Presuming nobody in Cleveland wants to be in this position again, count me in the camp that would like to have the very best quarterback in this draft, regardless of how good a pass rusher Myles Garrett grades out. If that means using the No. 1 pick on the best quarterback and selecting the very best player at whatever position with Philly’s pick, count me in.
One last chance for Cam Erving
I see exactly what the rest of you do with former first-round pick Cam Erving. He doesn’t appear to be an NFL player and might be of absolutely no use to the Cleveland Browns. He has an enormous mountain to climb to become a decent NFL starter, and I wouldn’t bet on it. Regardless, I’d still bring him back to one more training camp.
This will be the first time Erving gets to go away for an off-season with instructions from a coach who will be back the following season. Hue Jackson’s Browns will have worked with the man for an entire season, tell him what he needs to go do2 and we’ll see if that instruction yields results that produce even a passable NFL starting offensive lineman.
Again, I wouldn’t bet on it, but with the contract he’s on for 2017 — $2.57 million, and a “Dead Cap” figure of $5.57 million — it’s well worth seeing him in training camp one more time. It wasn’t this regime’s first round pick , but you want to be sure that you can’t make some chicken salad out of a career that’s been chicken-something-else.
55 Comments
Given the prolific awful pathology of Ray Farmer picks, I tend to think Erving is a bust. He may have some utility somewhere in the NFL but I’d rather engage with somebody less volatile in the future on the OL.
I’m inclined to think that if you have Myles Garrett so far ahead of everyone else take him. However, if you have a QB WAY ahead, then you may want to take him as well. It really depends on the evaluation. Last year’s draft is starting to look like there was only one decent QB in it (Prescott).. with Goff being a massive work in progress (we’ll see what new coaching can bring) and Wentz having deep issues with his mechanics that make him easy to expose (things that of course can be fixed with time and practice)..
Don’t forget that Von Miller basically won a super bowl last year for the Broncos.. I’m not saying that Myles Garrett is Von Miller.. but if the Browns think he is or can be.. they should get him.
1. Immutable draft rule 1. You never ever draft a QB in the top 5 just because you need a quarterback. He’s got to be worth going that high. Have we learned nothing?
2. If the London game is a Browns home game, then make it in December when most people will not want to go anyway (see yesterday).
3. Good news/bad news:
Theory A. The Browns players are really desperate to avoid the embarrassment of a winless season, so every week they will play harder and harder and get the win.
Theory B. No one wants to be the first team to lose to the Browns, so they will play harder and harder and avoid the loss.
The Chargers game would seem to be the best chance for a win. A going-nowhere team from beautiful San Diego has to fly all the way out to gray and snowy Cleveland to play on Christmas Eve. Hard to get up for that, no? This makes a lot of sense, so it likely won’t happen: Chargers 31-6.
Right. Don’t overthink it, and don’t outsmart yourselves. BPA all the way.
I was able to get Myles Garrett to read taking a QB from this class before him
https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-25-2015/9OhaAW.gif
Long snapper? Is Care Bear a better lineman that the immortal Pontbriand?
It’s a missed opportunity for fans to go to games, and it’s a missed opportunity in terms of revenue in a building that doesn’t see a whole lot of activity.
Harry Doyle: “In case you haven’t noticed, and judging by the attendance you have, the Browns haven’t won anything and are threatening to dig themselves deeper into the cellar.”https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/545d22a78fec579d2daf64883842dace2c3b922b1c6dc30a6e39eb6214a5ccb0.jpg
“Presuming nobody in Cleveland wants to be in this position again, count me in the camp that would like to have the very best quarterback in this draft, regardless of how good a pass rusher Myles Garrett grades out. If that means using the No. 1 pick on the best quarterback and selecting the very best player at whatever position with Philly’s pick, count me in.”
No, no, no God, a thousand times, NO! This is how you get Jake Locker, Blake Bortles, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, Matt Leinert, Mark Sanchez or Joey Harrington. You don’t force a pick because you desperately need a position. You take the player who rates highest when it’s your turn to choose or is at least within a couple of spots if that player fits a need. YOU DO NOT REACH TO FILL A NEED. The best QB has to be a great QB, not the tallest midget.
There is only SAMM, errr, Myles.
Have we learned NOTHING!?!
WFNY Draft Rule #1: Trust. Your. Board.
http://i.giphy.com/Tq2wgzOK7ncEE.gif
WFNY Draft Rule #2: Don’t trust Ray Farmer
WFNY Draft Rule #3: When in doubt, see rule No. 1
someday we might even forgive Farmer for deciding that WR wasn’t important when there were four No. 1 WRs and then having Sashi draft 100 WRs in a class where there might not have been even one
http://i1.wp.com/www.dawgpoundnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/15-1104-ray-farmer-towel.jpg?fit=576%2C324
http://i.giphy.com/JRYw73ONY0Ues.gif
lol but sadly you’re paying first rd. $$$ to a reserve lineman. You can get them elsewhere.
Aww, jeeze, now I’m going to have to go back and compare who we could have had…
Based on our picks where we eventually took them, post trade, we could have had drafted OBJ, Kelvin Benjamin, and Allen Robinson.
That assumes we passed on Bitonio.
“You can say these changes are no big deal, and for some of you, it might not be.”
These changes are no big deal, as long as people keep buying tickets. Yes, I saw that the stadium was half-empty, but 60,028 tickets were sold. Five of seven games have been sellouts. You want Rebate Jimmy to stop the “screw the fans” money grabs? Stop handing over your money to him when he does them. Grumbling on a message board, and then every Summer coming around and going “they can pull off six wins this year, count me in for tickets” is a surefire way to keep the same old system.
Craig I want some of whatever the hell you are smoking if you come away with RG3 and Kessler as the best group of QBs we have had in the rebirth era. RG3 was comically bad in this game,and all but one of the sacks he took were on him for not throwing the ball away. I admire your commitment to the team and rebuild but seriously WTF on the QB’s . Couch and Holcomb were much better and could play in the snow and swirling winds….as in their passes made generally made it to their targets,definitely not so for RG3,nor probably for Kessler…are you watching a different team? Seriously this QB crew sucks hard….Kesslers hard ceiling is Alex Smith…and that is being very nice, RG3 seems broken in all aspects…Mcown is in the same place. I just can not see what you do in our QBs.
We are fans of the Browns…so no.
Jimmy is all for this London trip. He’s dumping those Harvard boys and will take this time to recruit for his new Oxford Brain Trust.
I agree with this particularly if going to the games is a pure out of pocket expense. But if you have 10-20+ years invested in PSL’s, seat upgrades and the like, letting your season tickets go now to get back in later could be a very bad thing. It would be the equivalent of buying high, selling low and buying back in high again. Which btw, are exactly how the ticket schemes are designed to work.
I looked at season tix a decade ago in Charlotte, and the PSL expenses for 4 seats more than justified just buying games on the secondary market, even at 50% markups to face value for premium games. There were piles of PSL’s on the secondary market that didn’t move at all.
Mourinho should be available by the time they move. He could be the Lasso of the NFL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KeG_i8CWE8
That’s a bold strategy, Cotton. At least out kicker and punter will be good.
My friend has had season tickets since they came back (decent ones in the middle bowl). He has dropped ~$60,000 in these 17 years on parking, concessions (2x beers per game) and tickets.
You are just throwing good money after bad.
yeah, hard to see how this bunch is even as “good” as Hoyer/Manziel/Davis, or Hoyer/Weedon, or even Weedon/Colt/Seneca. The Browns are 0-for-an entire year. so Craig and all of us can be excused our Stockholm Syndrome. The next 6’2″ sturdy looking chap who stands in the pocket on third down and hits Coleman in stride on a crossing route like any mediocre QB will probably be acclaimed as the next coming of Otto Freaking Graham. Let’s just hope that guy is not Jay Cutler.
Craig, i disagree. Vontae Mack, no matter what.
The browns will have one of the first games in london next season. Longer they wait, the worse record they will have.
and Miller are Garrett both Aggies … must be Karma .
Sunk cost fallacy. I feel for the people who love the Browns and are frustrated as hell. But at what point during the cycle of spending a few thousand on the team, being frustrated at what they do on and off the field, lining up to spend a few thousand again next year am I allowed to not feel sorry for them anymore?
They aren’t being tricked or scammed. They are willfully forking over money for a bad product they know is going to piss them off. When people hand over money left and right regardless of what the team does, why wouldn’t Haslam milk every last dollar he can get out of them?
O-B-J O-B-Jah life goes on bra
La la how the life goes on
so was Manziel (saying that the Aggies owe us some karmic balance)
mornin ‘ … so how does passing-up on Watkins look ?? he can’t stay on the field.
we could’ve had Mack & Carr … instead , the Raiders have turned things around quickly. so, there’s hope …
they are noting it is earmarked for Week 7 or 8
yeah, we don’t know what happens in the alternate reality where we take Watkins. maybe he stays healthy? It was actually OBJ that had extreme health concerns, which caused him to not be considered equals with Watkins & Evans (also Kelvin Benjamin went later)
Ray was crafty … he found a few hidden gems in undrafted free-agents … we had both Taylor Gabriel & Willie Snead … the pick of Mahle may’ve been one of his worst.
Yeah, don’t pass on Bitonio or I’ll be sad again. Carr still shocks me (especially after his rookie year where he refused to pass the ball more than 10yds downfield) but man has he been good.
sure, though I don’t think either of those guys does what they are doing if they are still on the Browns (see: Moore, Lance). my point was that he did not think it necessary to find a WR1, which are generally found near the top of the draft.
love Otto’s middle name … he was a gamer.
KING BOB!
Hey, who thought that Couch/Holcomb was going to be the high-water mark for QBs in post-99 Browns anyway?
I based my picks on the post-trade positions. SAMMY was gone at that point.
Cambridge is where England houses the tech boys, which you are going to need with all the fancy analytics and such.
Does that mean Chris Tabor gets the boot?
Yep, responding to tb2 there.
Didn’t the Browns spend like $100,000 on a study saying that Carr would be good?
Or was that a study stating Bridgewater was better than JFF?
Which Ray promptly threw in the trash.
it was Bridgewater, yeah
Jimmy can catch a hackney carriage from London.