Buckeyes release trailer for primetime matchup in Happy Valley
October 21, 2016Meet the Puntkins: Cleveland Browns announce Week 7 uniform look
October 21, 2016For being two of the three biggest citites in the same state alongside playing in the same NFL division, Cincinnati and Cleveland do not seem to hold much of a rivalry. Perhaps it is due to the Nati being such an inferior city. The Southern Ohio city shares a border with Kentucky,1 has terrible cuisine,2 starts tiresome internet memes,3 is the home of Pete Rose, and the Bengals are one of the few teams with a longer playoff victory drought than the Browns. Hey, the only reason they even have a NFL team is due to Art Modell driving out Paul Brown and him wanting an Ohio location.
Too bad the Bengals are still a superior football club to the Browns. Despite their best efforts, they cannot drop to the depths of the Browns futility on the field of play. So, let’s start off things by discussing items away from football. Couldn’t hurt, right?
Non-football questions
With the Cleveland Indians on the cusp of the World Series, it seems the Browns have actually taken a back seat in the collective minds on the Northcoast. Or is this just me?
Craig: This is a much longer topic that we’ll take on another day, I’m sure. The short version of this is that the NFL is more popular than MLB in Cleveland. I understand why Tribe fans get a little sore when bad Browns teams are more popular than mediocre Tribe teams. I do find it encouraging when a great Tribe team dwarfs a bad Browns team to the point that the team getting offensive production from a third-round rookie QB is basically a non-existent storyline. Cody Kessler playing like this in basically any other year would be talked about ad nauseum on the radio. Because of the Tribe and Cavaliers, nobody really cares. That’s encouraging to me.
Joe: No, I agree with that. The Browns are the third wheel right now and they should be. Sunday’s are less painful with the Tribe winning and the Cavs season coming up.
Michael: I’m sorry, if I am going to be able to answer any of the other questions, then I need to go rinse all of this champagne out of my hair. Perhaps the Browns would do better in team sports if there was a team from Toronto in their conference so that they too could celebrate championships over Canada.4
Josh: Thank goodness for the Indians, Cavs, and fantasy football. I couldn’t tell you the last time I watched an entire Browns game, honestly. With the Indians just four wins away from winning the World Series and the Cavs just a few days from beginning their quest for back-to-back championships, the Browns should not only be the awkward third-wheel in Cleveland, but they should only be talked about on Sundays. The only two things Browns related that are allowed to be talked about on a non-Sunday are Terrelle Pryor and the upcoming NFL Draft. Yes, that includes you, sports talk radio.
Scott: I’d argue that the Cavs put the Browns in the back seat, but it was the Indians who took all of the stuff that was piled on the passenger seat—maybe a backpack, some receipts, an iPhone charger, and an old McDonald’s bag—and tossed it on top of said Browns, and cranked the radio up to the point where even when they try to talk, you can’t hear them and it’s just a two-team conversation in the front of the car.
Pat: It’s not you, it’s me. Oh wait, sorry… that was a flashback from college. I would have to agree with you. The Browns are young and riddled with inexperience, and it shows up every week on the field. The Indians, on the other hand, are in the very beginning of their prime. This team has the potential to hold together for multiple years and make a run each year in the playoffs. Not only that, but they’re just an incredibly fun team. The personalities of Terry Francona, Francisco Lindor, Jason Kipnis, Jose Ramirez, #PartyAtNapolis, and the rest of the regulars5 all shine on this team. It’s simply a joy to watch them.
Dave: You are correct, and that is a good thing. The Browns seem to have a solid coach, a few bright spots, but aren’t ready for prime time. So for the Tribe and the Cavs to keep the spotlight off of the Browns is a great thing for everyone in Berea.
Hue Jackson and Marvin Lewis are good friends. Lewis even remarked recently that he misses having Jackson in the coaches rooms terribly. Does the friendship add any intrigue into this divisional matchup?
Craig: Nope. The only storylines that are of substance here are the Browns trying to garner their first win and the Bengals being somewhat disappointing compared to what everyone thought they could be this season. We don’t need fake storylines involving the intersection of personal and professional lives of Hue Jackson and Marvin Lewis when their football teams are 0-6 and 2-4 respectively. There are NFL season implications.
Joe: It does give the game a little more intrigue. Hue Jackson gaining his first win with the Browns against his former team would be a huge thing for Jackson.
Michael: I love coaching trees and the bonds these guys have with some of the people they have worked with and not at all with others. Lewis and Jackson are good friends, and I am quite glad that stealing Jackson hurt the Bengals now and should reap some dividends in the future for the Browns despite the early results in the standings.
Josh: The Browns are still winless and the Bengals are struggling even before their postseason. Those are the only two story lines that even matter, really.
Scott: I mean sure—they’ll make for great dead time fodder on the CBS broadcast. There will be unconfirmed quotes used to describe what each coach meant to the other, and there will be some statistics used to show how much Hue meant to Cincinnati. When it comes to Cleveland, however, I don’t know a single fan who gives a flying shit.
Pat: You know it does! These are two head coaches who could probably guess what the other one is thinking half of the time. Lewis knows Jackson’s offensive tendencies, and Jackson knows Lewis’s defensive tendencies. I’m not exactly sure who will have the advantage. It’s possible it will work itself out on the field as a stalemate.
Dave: I’m pretty sure that they are going to hug afterwards no matter what happens, but I don’t think it will be a big factor unless Hue comes out with a dis-track on Saturday.
Everyone knows Skyline Chili is gross, but what redeeming qualities are there in Southwest Ohio as the Browns prepare a trip to that region?
Craig: I skip over Cincy and go straight to Kentucky because I’ve tasted a Kentucky Hot Brown. Considering this is a Browns column, I’m going to talk about a sandwich that has Brown in the title and tastes amazing. You ever had one of these? It’s a hot sandwich originally created at the Browns Hotel in Louisville, Kentucky. It’s open-faced with turkey, bacon and covered in a cheese sauce, usually Gruyere.
There’s conversation to be had about whether a sandwich is still a “sandwich” when it’s open-faced, smothered in sauce so as to necessitate consumption via knife and fork, but there’s no conversation about it’s awesomeness. Were we talking about Skyline? P’shaw.
Joe: I like the city of Cincinnati. The high school football scene is tremendous. It has a lot of great colleges. But, it does not have the food or sports success like Cleveland!
Michael: Newport and Covington make Cincinnati half-Kentucky, which explains their weird obsessions of mixing spaghetti with chili and that goetta garbage. Still, Elder, Colerain, and St. Xavier make for some mighty fine high school football games, and, unlike their NEO counterparts, home stadiums such as The Pit are unique and provide real home field advantages.
Josh: When I think of traveling to Cincinnati, all I can think of is 190-proof Everclear for my homemade Apple Pie that I make every time I travel to Newport, Kentucky, errrrr Cincinnati, I mean, which isn’t very often. Good Skyline food (which I don’t like) is almost like the Bengals’ win in the playoffs since the Browns returned in 1999: both don’t exist.
Scott: The ability to walk over the bridge and immediately land in Newport, Kentucky is a very underappreciated quality of Cincinnati. The Hofbrauhaus in Newport was my first foray into drinking beers the size of a horse’s head—it was one of the seminal moments of my early 20s and will forever have a soft spot in my liver. (There’s also that cool little alley next to Great American Ballpark that’s littered with cool bars and restaurants, but I assume that loses a little luster when it’s no longer the summer.)
Pat: The disgusting flavor of Skyline Chili is a certified6 fact, so there’s no need to discuss this point. Southwest Ohio does have the redeeming distinction of not being Kentucky or West Virginia. Also, Miami University is pretty cool. I applied there for both undergrad and grad school, but couldn’t pull the trigger. I always wonder if I would have turned out to be a better person if I went there. Oh and my college roommate is now a political science professor at Wright State University, so he’s doing his part in lifting up that whole region down there.
Dave: We on the Friday Fumble have gotten well into the shortcomings of Cinci…cincinna….South-west Ohio. That brown liquid isn’t chili. One good thing about that town is they have a minor league soccer team that draws a lot more fans than many MLS clubs.
Football questions
If he can somehow stay healthy behind our offensive line, then should Cody Kessler start the rest of the season? Has he done enough to be granted that opportunity?
Craig: Whatever. If the Browns want to see another few minutes of RG3, I’d be on board. I don’t especially need to see Josh McCown, but if I was betting, I could see us watching all three at least one more time because of the offensive line situation in front of them. I really don’t want to pile on a certain former first round pick, because I think he’s a really great dude and good person, but he can’t play center.
Joe: Cody Kessler should get the rest of the season. He has earned it. He has shown solid play with glimpses of something there to build on. There is no point to play Josh McCown. Kessler could be the future, but McCown will definitely not be.
Michael: Everyone not only knows what Josh McCown gives a team, but also that he’ll be retired before the Browns can draft and develop a competitive roster. RG3? Well, Griffin is the 2016 version of Dwayne Bowe that the otherwise stingy front office decided to burn money on. That leaves Kessler, and I guess Kevin Hogan though the possibility of 16 quarterbacks in 16 weeks certainly took a hit last week.
Josh: If he can stay healthy, absolutely. But obviously, that is a big “if”. Behind this embarrassing offensive line, it may be hard for him to remain 100 percent all season. Just think of how bad the offensive line is going to be if the Browns trade Joe Thomas.
Scott: If the Browns wanted to put themselves in a better position to win, McCown would get a start. That said, they don’t want to win, so Kessler will be the guy from this point forward—assuming he doesn’t get killed by a matador-style block from Cameron Erving. I’m low key certain he’s either a double agent or covertly involved in some sort of point-shaving scheme. There’s no way a first-round pick from a top-flight program is actually that bad.
Pat: Absolutely 100 percent yes. I don’t need to see Josh McCown doing backup quarterback things. We all know that he does those things and does them well. I would like to see if Kessler can continue his moderate success, and I would like to have a good amount of video available to diagnose whether Kessler has the tools to be a starter in the NFL. I know many have already written him off as a career backup, but I’m not so sure. I think his arm strength might actually be adequate, or it could become adequate with time in the weight room. It’s still early enough in the season that we don’t need to panic, but at this time I haven’t noticed a single college quarterback who looks worthy of a top ten NFL Draft pick.
Dave: If the Browns think that RG3 is anymore than a stop gap, why not put him back in, but Cody Kessler is an NFL quarterback. Is he a star? I don’t know. But lost in a lot of this is how well he really is playing. He at least gets Hue off the hook for his “trust me” comment after the draft.
Despite needing to juggle the OL weekly, the early returns had been that Hue Jackson resurrected the Browns rushing attack. Recent results have not been as promising as the run game has been ineffective and abandoned. Was the early season a mirage or can Isaiah Crowell and Duke Johnson make defenses think about them too.
Craig: It will depend on that offensive line. Losing Bitonio is a killer. Like any other part of a football team, continuity should pay dividends. We wouldn’t know what the word continuity means on the Browns offensive line.
Joe: I don’t think the early run game success was a mirage, but I do think it will not be the same again this season. That is because of the injury to Joel Bitonio. Bitonio was having a great season and was one of the big reasons for the successful run game. So without Bitonio, the run game may never be the same this season.
Michael: Just gonna take this opportunity to pour one out for Joel Bitonio.
Josh: Crowell and Duke can absolutely be good enough to make opposing defenses think about them. The problem is, if the Browns continue to be behind on the scoreboard for the majority of every game, the offense will be forced to pass the ball more often than run.
Scott: When Hue Jackson is the head coach, the running game is always in play. Unfortunately, the Browns have not had a game in the last few weeks where they don’t fall down by multiple scores by halftime. Duke Johnson will continue to play a factor in the passing game, but this severely limits what Crowell can do.
Pat: Losing Joel Bitonio to IR certainly hurts. He was an absolute beast in the run game. We knew the Patriots would be successful in taking away the Browns’ rushing attack because Bill Belichick is always good at taking away the one thing your team does best. I was a little more surprised to see the ineffectiveness continue against the Titans, but they do have a good run defense allowing the seventh-fewest yards per game in the league. The Bengals do not have a good run defense, so I would look to see if the Browns can get back on track this week. If not, then there may be a schematic problem.
Dave: I think the line injuries are a big portion of the running game issues of late. And it seems like our current coaching staff actually comes up with DIFFERENT ways to move the ball on offense based on who they are playing, which is a foreign concept to me.
First, prayers out to Jordan Poyer who suffered a lacerated kidney and an extended stay at a Nashville area hospital. But once again, the Browns secondary is being exposed for the lack of depth on the roster. How can the Browns mask their issues?
Craig: Can they? The weekly wonderment of whether or not Joe Haden will play is another wrinkle to this conundrum. It’s going to take an off-season of draft and free agency to mask the lack of depth in this secondary. And of course, that’s not masking a lack of depth, that should be a cure. This season is so dead.
Joe: The Browns can mask the poor secondary with more pass rush, but that has been even worse then the secondary. So, the team may need to rely on more blitzes to produce more pressure. With more pressure, it lessens the stress on the secondary.
Michael: If Joe Haden is healthy, then maybe he can shut down A.J. Green as he has done in past matchups. But, he’s not healthy and the rest of the secondary is banged up or bad (or both). Given the lack of pass rush too, and Hue Jackson will have Andy Dalton looking like a legit quarterback for one more week.
Josh: No mask will ever be able to mask just how bad the Browns’ secondary is so far this season. And to think that they have to go up against one of the best receivers in the league this weekend in A.J. Green. Oh boy.
Scott: They haven’t been able to mask them at full strength. AJ Green is going to go have such a big game, I can’t wait to just watch in awe.
Pat: They can’t. They’re now starting a second-year player and a rookie at safety, and that’s a position where mental errors typically result in huge plays for the opposing offense. We’re also playing a rookie cornerback in Briean Boddy-Calhoun. The Browns’ defense will take their lumps this year.
Dave: Yeah, he wasn’t that great as a defensive player to begin with. I think we should try to sneak a few extra players onto the field and see if we can get away with it.
The Browns could not stay within three touchdowns of the Bengals in 2015. Is it more of the same for 2016 or can the surprisingly competitive losses continue this week?
Craig: I think the Browns can be within a field goal of the 9.5 to 10 point spread that I’ve seen at Vegas sites for this game. That’s as much a product of the Bengals as it is the Browns.
Joe: I think the Browns will be competitive if Kessler can stay healthy. He has shown that he can lead an offense that scores points consistently. The key will be the Browns defense. Can they slow down the Bengals offense enough for Kessler and the offense to stay with them. I think they can, but it will be more due to the Browns offense than the defense.
Michael: Three touchdowns? That seems like a lot. Like too many. Let me check…whooo boy, that’s a stench. Yeah, so um, it takes a special kind of team to be THAT bad three times in a row. Especially given the Bengals struggles in 2016 and Jackson’s familiarity. Single digit loss this week boys.
Josh: If the Browns stay within three touchdowns, can we consider it a win? If so, they’ll get their first win of the season Sunday afternoon. But seriously, who will have more touchdowns in the game: the Browns offense or A.J. Green?
Scott: Cincinnati was an 8.5-point dog on the road to New England. The Browns were 10-point dogs to the Patriots at home a week earlier. Using the three-point rule and some fuzzy math, neutral field would put the Bengals at 5.5-point dogs with the Browns being 7-point dogs in the same scenario. Nothing happened between the last two weeks that would move lines substantially, meaning the Browns, as of a week ago, were priced in as a 1.5-point dog to the Bengals on a neutral field, 4.5 in Cincy. That they’re getting upwards of 10 seems like a steal. That said, they could get absolutely rolled and I wouldn’t bat an eye.
Pat: I would like to believe that we can thank Hue Jackson for those savage beatings and that things will be different now that he’s our head coach. The Bengals have not been as good since he left, and I think the Browns should be able to hang around in this one. That’s probably as sunny of a picture as I can paint for you.
Dave: The Browns have shown great effort in all of their games this year. Despite their lack of talent, this team is much more interesting and has a lot more upside than previous teams. When they lose a game, I’m not mad at them, I feel bad WITH them. That hasn’t been true over the last few years. That said, I think this Bengals team is not what previous years Bengals teams have been and could be beaten.
- Would anyone complain if Kentucky just annexed them? [↩]
- More on that in a moment. [↩]
- Yep, Harambe is all them and the Cincinnati Zoo. [↩]
- Seemed to work fine for both the Cavaliers and Indians. [↩]
- and the non-personality of Corey Kluber. [↩]
- It’s certified by me. I just wrote it on a piece of paper and signed the paper. [↩]
18 Comments
I could kill some Skyline coneys.
Sorry.
I can’t think of a time in the last 10-15 years that the AFCN is more vulnerable for the taking. And the Browns of course suck. I don’t care who the GM and HC de jour is, the organization needs to be held accountable by the fans. Total rebuild and hoarding cap space is an old movie and another hugely blown opportunity.
I’ve been in Cincinnati for about the past 12 years. If you can consider Skyline a meat sauce vs. chili, it’s fine, but there are people down here who absolutely swear by it and eat it twice a week and I don’t understand how they pull it off without making their insides explode.
Yeah, well, I really like Skyline.
http://31.media.tumblr.com/8b9888847b83fe4abae950e3ec8a2a42/tumblr_mgowsmuHcL1s2ofm8o1_r1_500.gif
Not much else that I care for in that Northern Kentucky town (which insults Kentucky, a state that I actually like) – let’s go with “Deep Southeast Indiana town.” I guess Urban Meyer learned college football there, so that’s good for something?
Because we were headed the right way under Pettine/Farmer?
Under Holmgren/Shurmer?
Chris Palmer just needed more time!
HS football is their one redeeming quality (yes, Meyer coached at St. X)
Played college ball at Cincinnati.
If only Romeo and Savage could have kept going!
Art would have never moved the team had he kept Marty
The irony that the best coach in the $EC $EC $EC is a yankee is so delicious, but unfortunately completely lost on the rednecks down here.
there was a time when Cincinnati Moeller won the state championship nearly every year.
it’s interesting , we have all these injuries , inexperience & problems … & yet Hue & his staff are still finding ways to stay in games.
Yes, Moeller too…my fault.
Anyone going to the game? I am- let me know if you’d like to say hey.
Nope. I’m just all out of do-over chits.
Picture it: Kent State University, 1999. One of the guys on our floor was from Cincy, and was thoroughly hyped when Skyline became available at the nearest dining hall. Hyped it up for weeks. Finally, after a night of intense hydration, I head across the street, place an order, and return to my room with a Chili 3-way. Even in my altered and hungry state, I couldn’t get past the third bite. Just genuinely awful stuff. Should have known better.