Browns ABC’s: Anticipating Brett (Favre) Comparisons, Week 13
December 16, 2015LeBron’s rest and two January trades reinvigorate the Cavs — WFNY Top 10 Cleveland Sports Stories: No. 10
December 16, 2015Todd Frazier’s name has been in the MLB rumor mill for weeks now. The Cincinnati Reds third baseman has often been connected to the Cleveland Indians, as we’ve shared here and here. The Reds, now unlikely to trade closer Aroldis Chapman, were still looking for ways to clean house and rebuild. But as shared yesterday, there were several other suitors for Frazier in a trade.
Lo and behold, the news came down on Wednesday that Frazier officially had been traded. But it was not to the in-state rival Indians. Alas, it was to Cleveland’s division rival Chicago White Sox.
The #Whitesox get their man: Land Todd Frazier from #Reds in 3-team trade w #Dodgers.
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) December 16, 2015
The #Dodgers get Frankie Montas, Michah Johnson, Trayce Thompson; #Reds get Jose Peraza, Scott Schebler, Brandon Dixon. @JonHeymanCBS 1st.
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) December 16, 2015
Nightengale later added that the White Sox plan to move newly acquired Brett Lawrie, also an oft-connected offseason Indians trade target, to second base to make room for Frazier at third. In the trade, Los Angeles acquired the youngsters from Chicago and Cincinnati acquired the youngsters from Los Angeles.
Montas, a top-100 prospect before 2015, pitched in seven games for the White Sox last season. Thompson, the younger brother of NBA star Klay Thompson, played in 44 big league games last year. Peraza is the top prospect of the deal and was a consensus top-60 prospect in the game before 2015. A middle infielder who debuted in September as well, he had already been traded from Atlanta to Los Angeles in the July trade for lefty starter Alex Wood.
From the Indians perspective, it’s again disappointing to lose out on a potential offseason acquisition and to do so against a division rival. Clearly, the Reds weren’t just holding out for top-tier MLB pitching talent. Schebler, who has 19 games of MLB experience, and Dixon are both position players as well. But the Indians might have had to give up three of their best position player prospects, such as Bradley Zimmer, Clint Frazier, and others. Or perhaps a Lonnie Chisenhall-type, which would have created another hole in the big league lineup.
Also this offseason, the Detroit Tigers acquired starters Jordan Zimmermann and Mike Pelfrey, relievers Justin Wilson and Mark Lowe, and position players Cameron Maybin and Jarrod Saltalamacchia. Compared to any normal team, Detroit’s hyper-activity and Chicago’s mild-activity look pretty exciting. Compared to the literally Joba Chamberlain-and-that’s-it-Indians, both teams look like super powers. And that’s not even including the defending World Series Champion Kansas City Royals.
Obviously, the Tigers had the worst rotation in baseball last season and Frazier/Lawrie aren’t going to instantly make the White Sox a playoff team. But to a certain extent, it’s about optics. And for the Cleveland Indians, a slow and boring offseason is looking worse and worse by the day.
35 Comments
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There’s go my aspirations of being an operator selling Indians season tickets!
The Indians wouldn’t ‘pull the trigger? Count this among the things which do not surprise me.
So fun watching the Indians’ division rivals again get stronger while the Indians get more Indiansy.
I want to see if the Indians have been burning the phone line to Freese. He doesn’t cost prospects in a trade and can shore up the 3B slot.
Yeah, he’s probably the grinder they’re looking for. Watched him play quite a bit with the Cards. He’s ok/serviceable (insurance against Ursh), but in an offseason where we can and should make an impact…we’re left with another meh.
Cleveland Indians Baseball 2016: “Catch the Meh!”
We found it.
He adds 2-3 WAR where we had 0 WAR last year. It’s notable. Add in another 2 WAR guy at CF and we’re in business.
Note: w/ KC departures, Indians are still the favorites in AL Central despite lack of moves. I think they need to do more to actually win the division, but projections are what projections are.
I’m sick of WAR. How can this country afford another one?
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I put him in the line of “30 y/o journeymen who had a good season once a few years back and are decent role players still”, ala David Murphy, Brandon Moss, etc.
Also and more importantly…if we get 2-3 WAR from all of our 25 men on the roster, we will only get 50-75 wins! That won’t even get us a wild card. Man you stat guys really haven’t thought this thing through!
It’s perfect. I just imagined you delivering that in Don Draper fashion to the Dolans.
Let the White Sox build the most expensive 77 win roster they can at the expense of them building an actual contender in the future.
Indians finally got a beard tho…signed Mike Napoli to a 1 year deal.
Internal debate over whether I should post this . . . looks like I lost.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpWmlRNfLck
“we get 2-3 WAR from all of our 25 men on the roster, we will only get 50-75 wins”
Replacement level isn’t zero wins, its 45-50. The lowest modern era win total is 36. With that minimum, and the minimum of 50 WAR you’re giving us, you already have an above average team.
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If you say so. But there’s nothing to suggest that the general attitude towards adding players Freese and understanding of the metrics is even the slightest bit different than CB’s post.
Mike Napoli
I guess I should just table my “War…what is it good for?” retort for another day then!
Um, it’s good for evaluating whether a given player is better than the presumably equivalent replacement at the same position, by estimating the number of wins that the player would provide to the team as opposed to the notional replacement. Duh.
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you’re saying giving up Lonnie Chisenhall would have created a hole in the lineup? They could have 10 Lonnie Chisenhalls for Todd Frazier and the Indians would still come out ahead.
ugh. no. please tell me no. Enjoy the .217 average and 14 homers in 99 games.
it’s good at evaluating how good a player was last year. It’s not predictive.
Yeah, I don’t care.
A guy really can’t joke about this stuff, can he?
i only wrote that because i know your opinion.
Wait. So it was the classic double irony move?
Nicely played.
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…
48 is the baseline. You add team WAR to 48. 50+48 = 98
Um, I said,http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2tYt6V9.gif
Don’t shoot the messenger!
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I’m curious. Who sets the baseline? Is the total WAR on paper suppose to (ideally) translate into actual wins that the team had? So many questions…I’ll understand if you don’t want to answer since I was smartace about it.
legitimate questions. yes, ideally team-WAR + 48 = team wins. Doesn’t work out that way all the time due to WAR not being evenly distributed. But, it’s been decent enough for predicting.
best way to look at 2016 is to look at projected WAR and see if we are above or below teams and by how much. projections are fuzzy math (obviously).
hi JACOB … good perspective on the tigers. new GM , alex avila , has done a nice job so far & he’s not done yet. the AL central should be very competitive again.