I once shook Joe Thomas’ hand, and it was magical
November 4, 2015Indians decline Ryan Raburn’s option
November 4, 2015The debate on the quality of the Cleveland Browns offensive line play returned this week as the Browns (2-6) reportedly nearly traded away Joe Thomas, a future Hall of Fame left tackle, to the Denver Broncos on the Tuesday NFL trade deadline. While there are many who have seen a significant drop off in play from a unit returning all five starters from 20141 , there are still those who believe most of the issues stem directly from the lack of quality at the skill positions.
Count Pro Football Focus amongst those who blame the skill groups as they currently have the Browns ranked as the second best offensive line unit in the entire NFL after Week 8. Here is what PFF had to say:
2. Cleveland Browns (3rd)
Pass blocking rank: 1stRun blocking rank: 5th
Penalties rank: 25th
Stud: Joe Thomas (93.8), despite trade rumors, remains the best player the Browns have on the roster.
Dud: We’re drawing a blank here. Every starter on the line has a positive grade. That’s impressive.
Summary: The scary thing is, this line could get better. Alex Mack (77.9) isn’t back to his pre-injury levels, and as good as Joel Bitonio (83.3) has been, he’s not reached his rookie-year efforts yet. Even despite that, this is a line that does its best to overcome the limitations of the Browns’ skill players.
However, the given ranking certainly does not mesh with the statistics nfl.com provides for a glimpse on overall health of the offensive line play.
For pass blocking, the Browns rank among the worst in the NFL in allowing quarterback hits (30th, 59 QB hits) and sacks (28th, 27 sacks). And WFNY’s Joe Gilbert specifically broke down issues the Browns offensive line was having keeping the pocket clean in a recent a recent film room after the game against the St. Louis Rams when he noted:
The Browns had a tough time protecting quarterback Josh McCown versus the talented Rams pass rush. McCown was battered and bruised throughout, as the Rams notched four sacks and seven quarterback hits against the Browns offensive line. The Browns struggled to keep the pocket clean enough for McCown to pass effectively.
For run blocking, the Browns also rank among the worst in the NFL in yards per carry (31st, 3.4 YPC), rushing touchdowns (31st, two touchdowns), and first downs generated by the run (28th, 11 first downs). Furthermore, 26 of their 195 rushing attempts have resulted in negative yards gained.
Once again, the issues in the run game is a topic WFNY’s Joe Gilbert has tackled this season as he laid blame on both the skill groups and the OL for the deficiencies. Here is what he had to say about the OL’s share of the blame:
This shot shows that the offensive line was beaten pretty badly by the Oakland defense. Rookie Cameron Erving was in charge of the key block on this play, but he was unable to push the Raiders’ Denico Autry back, which caused a blockage that enabled the rest of the defense to get past their blocks and wrap up Crowell. As you can see, the Raiders defenders are all standing, while many of the Browns blockers are on the ground. The Browns lost the leverage on this play.
Even allowing for PFF accounting for individual responsibilities, strength of opponent, and skill position player mistakes rather than offensive line mistakes, it is still perplexing to see the general statistics disagree so universally with the PFF grade.
- While adding a first round rookie as the sixth man in Cameron Erving. [↩]
34 Comments
Ever since PFF gave Aaron Rodgers a -0.8 rating after a 333 yd, 5 TD, 0 INT performance, I completely discount the site. They live in a world that doesn’t exist.
This has been a strange year for them. They used to be great.
maybe it was a typo ??
This is perplexing as I’ve read that there are several teams who use/subscribe to PFF’s info. I don’t know what capacity any of those teams are utilizing the reports but there is at least some level of respect for PFF’s work among actual NFL people.
hi MG … good article & it is indeed perplexing. when i’m not defending ray farmer (*smile*) i spend it defending the O-line , & joe thomas in particular , as many (not on this site) think he’s overrated & washed-up. i think the O-line is the strength of the team at this time.
bitonio has regressed a little & turned into a penalty machine , but overall i’m satisfied with their play. and it may not be just the skill players , but what about the zone blocking scheme for the run game ?
Individual performance is not overall team performance. The 5 offensive linemen is not pass protection or run production as a whole. Simply put, the 5 lineman do not include TEs and RB/FBs who have not blocked well. Also, if you see one play where a line misses a block and that’s it, you are missing 50+ other plays which can offset one bad play. This is why team performance is different than player performance.
good point BOSS …
… and , of course , if it’s lack of talent from the skill players , that leads us back to farmer , right ? it’s a vicious cycle.
actually , we have gotten more than expected from mccown , barnidge & benjamin … and duke johnson is showing flashes of promise as well.
If the line, individually or collectively, is 5th in run blocking, PFF must rank our running backs as high school level.
Well, most teams have 1-2 sieves that rate TERRIBLE that probably drag down the score of their teams
Just tweeted at PFF guy. Said that our struggles are due to bad TE blocking and bad QB play more than O-Line play. Makes sense, I guess. I mean we did try to have Malcolm Johnson block Khalil Mack on a couple occasions.
you can’t argue with metrics, Ben. Cmon, dude.
this makes sense …
i disagree, and i think that the PFF people must not be watching the games. Half of the running plays begin with a d-lineman in the backfield.
All year I’ve been watching and it always feels like there are two things that consistently go wrong with our blocking: First, the blocking assignments seem to frequently be messed up. I don’t know if that’s on the line, McCown, or Flip, but I often see one guy doubled and another unblocked. Second, other than the five actual linemen on the field and maybe one of our TE’s, nobody else can do any blocking at all. I’ve seen a couple of plays where a WR was supposed to chip somebody and it went embarrassingly badly. I just don’t see the offensive line getting beaten man-for-man very much, except Schwartz once in a while against a speed rusher.
they adamantly defended it. and, I get their point to a certain extent in both cases. For Rodgers, their argument was he was completing short little dinks and the defense was just terrible (missing tackles, etc.). For the Browns, they push most of the blame on the runners and the QBs holding the ball too long.
So, if they had the Browns OL as a middle of the pack unit instead of the bottom the statistics demonstrate, then I could dig through some myself and find agreement (I do believe the Browns OL is better than bottom of the NFL). But, to suggest they are elite? That does not jive with my eyes nor the statistics built up.
And, per nfl.com, 13% end up with the runner being tackled in the backfield.
TE blocking has been killing us all year (run & pass), and I have seen their reasoning, but it does not make up the difference as much as they have it IMO.
Our smaller WRs being nearly invisible run blocking has been a consistent issue, yes.
1. Lies
2. Damned Lies
3. Statistics
4. PFF ratings for the 2015 NFL season
(its been a rough year for PFF)
Maybe the team will stop these WR screens where they ask Gabriel and Benjamin to block.
Ugh. I forgot! My bad!
Along those lines, they said Seattle has the 29th run o-line. I get that lynch is good but he’s not doing it by himself.
God job! M. Johnson is…not good at footballing.
Thanks, Ray. Gabriel’s fumble was due entirely to the fact that Benjamin is tiny and shouldn’t be expected to block well if at all.
I should have read your comment before posting
Crowell would like to discuss this issue…in person… with those PFF dweebs…
I have never heard this…. He was 24 for 35 too. He also rushed for 16 yards and took all of one sack. It’s mind boggling. I just watched the highlights and Rodgers looked awesome. He did make a lot of short, quick throws to receivers who weren’t being covered well, but I don’t see how you could consider that a negative. Should he have attempted passes with a higher degree of difficulty instead? F PFF.
1.) Have a terrible opinion
2.) Quantify that opinion
3.) Refer to the number as a metric
4.) Profit
hi BEN … he’s also a rookie that played TE in college. hopefully he’ll improve.
I had such high hopes for him, but he might not want to talk with anyone about his play this season.
We’ve seen what he can do behind even mediocre line play.
Jim Brown couldn’t rush behind this line the way it’s playing.
Their performance this year harkens back to Brown, Pyne, Wohlabaugh, Rehberg and Brown.
While I certainly do not agree with PFF rating them as an elite OL, they are a league average line. Crowell has been wretched this season. He has the skills in the open field, but his quick-hitting vision is terrible.
They watch games. That’s evident. I feel that its because someone misses an assignment and PFF can’t know who is supposed to guard who. WHich can mess up grading. If Bitonio was supposed to block down on the nose but he instead blocks the end and blocks him well he’ll still get a positive grade.