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November 6, 2015Gopher Hunting: Ohio State trailer for primetime matchup against Minnesota (Video)
November 6, 2015In the event Mike Pettine had any delusions of grandeur regarding his quarterback position and the polarizing nature of his decisions going forward, the Cleveland Browns head coach was done no favors on Thursday night as America looked on. Sure, the Browns lost. And sure, Johnny Manziel took his lumps, but if anything became more apparent on Thursday night in Cincinnati, it was that the quarterback play is becoming less and less the issue with the team’s win-loss total and the coaching and in-game decisions continue their ascent up the mountain of disaster.
To have your quarterback, in what was just his second start of the season—on short rest, nonetheless—lead the team on their best drive in several years to end a half, and then have the balls to stand on the sideline and tell the NFL Network reporter that you’d like him to stand in the pocket more is a lack of self-awareness to the Nth degree. To then have said quarterback come out and attempt to stand in the pocket—effectively playing a role instead of being the player selected in the first round a summer ago—and have the offense completely disappear, well sir, that’s not a quarterback issue. That one is on the guys wearing those camouflaged headsets.
While the outcomes were all the same, Thursday night in Cincinnati was more watchable (on the scale of Browns games) than either of their previous two contests. When Johnny Manziel is on the field, you, as a fan of the game, can’t look away in fear of missing one of the highlight plays that come along with (nearly) every one of his starts.
“No, I can’t (say he’ll play the next game),” Pettine said following the game. “When we get in and get back from this time off, we’ll assess what pool of players are available and go ahead and make those decisions from there. This will be a good time to step away and reassess where we are moving forward.”
With Josh McCown, you know what you have—a higher floor, a guy who has surpassed all expectations which were bestowed upon him heading into this season, a good guy by all accounts. With Manziel, you have a kid who fans want to see, a kid who has a higher chance of being in Cleveland two years from now than the guy the head coach insists on playing. And while there’s the ever-popular coaches-fans dilemma where those making the decisions are looking out for their own asses, there’s also a point where you feed a fan base so much garbage each and every fall that you may just want to suck it up and realize that it’s the fans who will be here much longer than any head coach or general manager. Start the kid, let him run around, let him make plays. Staring down the barrel of a 2-8 record heading into the bye, what’s the worst that can happen? Another sweat-filled presser?
WINNER: Johnny Manziel
The kid will never be Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or any other quick-triggered 6-foot-4-inch statue of a quarterback. Mobile quarterbacks may never truly win in the NFL, though several of them have rings on their bookshelves. Johnny Manziel may have had a second half to forget, but the kid took the reins on what was just three days of preparation and kept his team in the game until the coaches decided to continue on with this staggering theme of second-half disappearance.
Heading into the week, the concern was about Johnny’s holding on to the football—which is a problem, by the way—and how it could lead to dumb turnovers. After four quarters of football, the second-year quarterback threw no interceptions and fumbled the ball zero times. While there was only one first down in the second half, the Browns offense did their quarterback zero favors.
Looking for signs of growth from the kid? No chance he makes this read a year ago.
Josh McCown will likely get the start against the Pittsburgh Steelers because these are the Browns and they do Browns things. For now, we’ll get to spend the next ten days deliberating and pointing fingers, taking a break on Sunday to watch some actual football. (Packers-Panthers, come on down!) If you need something to pass the time, there’s this:
How did Johnny Manziel celebrate his first TD of the night?
By doing the @Cristiano celebration. #CLEvsCIN https://t.co/aOaxtHVVUq— NFL (@NFL) November 6, 2015
LOSER: Mike Pettine
As if the lede of this column didn’t hint toward this one… Cleveland has a head coach that is so focused on attempting to make his team into something it is not that he’s taking players who thrive on the move and in roll-outs and chastising them for doing what’s working. The Browns were down four points at halftime and had their doors blown off over the final 30 minutes once again. St. Louis was an abomination. Arizona was head-scratching. Cincinnati just confirms that this team has issues from the top down, and even if it’s not Pettine calling the plays on offense or the schemes on defense, it’s up to him to fix it. It’s getting worse.
WINNER: Duke Johnson
Is the kid jumping on Instagram and Twitter at halftime or something? I can’t think of any other reason that one of the team’s biggest play-makers on the season can not be used in the second half of consecutive games. A mis-match every time he takes to the field, Johnson was everywhere—even on the plays he didn’t get the ball, you could make the argument that he should have.
While the Browns don’t appear to be willing to let Johnny be Johnny, please—for the love of all things holy in the NFL—let Duke be Duke. Pair him with a quarterback who scrambles and I don’t know how a defense covers it with consistency.
LOSER: The entire Browns defense
This may appear like a cop-out, but outside of Karlos Dansby’s seven tackles, there was absolutely nothing to write home about. As I stated in Thursday’s roundtable, if you set the over/under for rushing yards allowed at 150, I’d take the over—the Bengals totaled 152. Factor in that Andy Dalton threw for 234 yards, three touchdowns an no interceptions, there was no facet of the team’s scheme that was working.
The Browns allowed long third-down conversions, committed a handful of boneheaded penalties (Thanks, Randy Starks), and proved to be the defense that does in fact break after it’s forced to bend too often. How ’bout that edge containment?
WINNER: Jim Brown
In what may have been the highlight of the night, I really enjoyed the pre-game package with Jim Brown speaking to the students at Miami University. I joked on Twitter that his role was to remind millennials that 1) the Browns were not named after a color, and 2) they haven’t always been an embarrassment to the state of Ohio. The story is so rich and could be so much better if the team in Cleveland could finally get their act together. Instead, they’re slowly becoming a team without a rival; a team that simply lives in lore through the words of guys like Brown. A shame, really.
LOSER: Taylor Gabriel
Three dropped passes, one reception, three yards. Look, I know it’s not his fault that the Browns have nothing in the way of wide receiving options, but you gotta step up, kid.
WINNER: Dwayne Bowe
HE’S ALIVE!
LOSER: Joe Thomas and Joel Bitonio
I’ll heap praise when praise is due, but the left side of the Browns offensive line offered Johnny Manziel and (what should have been) the run game nothing on Thursday night. Geno Atkins’ first sack of the night came on a play where he absolutely abused Bitonio. A false star early by Thomas coupled with some questionable blocking on stunts left for a night to forget. Conversely, Mitchell Schwartz and John Greco played well in both the run and passing game. No qualms there.
WINNER: Ibraheim Campbell
Kid looked good in his first start, stepping in for the injured Donte Whitner. The fourth-rounder tallied four tackles, three of which were of the solo variety.
WINNER: Marlon Moore
It may have been on a play after most of the televisions in the world were turned off, but credit to Moore for busting his ass even though the game was completely out of hand. It’s easy to mentally fold up shop and just go through the motions when there’s a there-score gap late in the fourth. Well done, Marlon.
LOSER: Ray Farmer
I mean, seriously. How about some wide receivers north of 6-2? Just a thought.
And finally, the fans:
https://twitter.com/burkepatrick/status/662481969251401728
@WFNYScott WINNER: ME. BECAUSE I SLEPT FOR 90% OF THE GAME.
— sportsyelling (@sportsyelling) November 6, 2015
@WFNYScott my Sunday wins , Browns free!
— Dustin Kuhn (@dkuhn1980) November 6, 2015
https://twitter.com/aralsto/status/662621967913263104
@WFNYScott Losers: anyone who came into this season expecting more than like 4 wins. There were a lot of those people. Still not sure why.
— Ethan Miller (@EMiller518) November 6, 2015
@WFNYScott winners: manziel, duke, farmer. Losers: pettine, O'Neil, the defense. How often does a HC want to stop what's working?
— Eric Doremus (@EricD429) November 6, 2015
@WFNYScott winners: Desir, Campbell
Losers: Pettine, O'Neil, Farmer, Gabriel, Shelton— Dan (@CLE_Sports88) November 6, 2015
@WFNYScott loser: Pettine's halftime comments revealed disfunction and disdain towards manziel. Defense performance shows his ineptitude.
— Shane Bergoch (@ShaneBergoch) November 6, 2015
@WFNYScott Winner: First half Johnny showed progress. Losers: WRs can't catch a cold. Jim O'Neil who should lose his job. Me w/a hangover
— UncleGrumpy (@Unc1eGrumpy) November 6, 2015
@WFNYScott Winners: Ohioans that root for the better Paul Brown NFL team Losers: All Browns fans, coaches, owner, staff
— Dan Murphy (@darkcvc) November 6, 2015
W: Manziel, Orchard, Duke L: Pettine, Farmer, Gabriel, Starks, coaching https://t.co/1ce7LWCcTk
— Dawgs By Nature (@DawgsByNature) November 6, 2015
@WFNYScott offense after we "calmed him down" credit:@dmansworld474 pic.twitter.com/R4KGRIuQLL
— Shane Bergoch (@ShaneBergoch) November 6, 2015
@WFNYScott W: Crowell, Duke, OLine, Tabor L: Pettine, O'Neill, Starks, Gabriel
— Rudy (@rudykyle) November 6, 2015
@DawgsByNature @WFNYScott Biggest L-the fans. #NoHope
— Gary Fe (@garfe66) November 6, 2015
W: Johnny, Duke. L: 2nd Half adjustments(Coaches), Lee, and Starks https://t.co/P2MnfHeKkz
— Larry (@Valarry) November 6, 2015
https://twitter.com/deg4/status/662633710374645761
@WFNYScott @WFNYScott Winners: 1st rounders actually playing on non-special teams plays
Loser: Josh McCown's career year #4kYardsForNothin— Clout (@irundownhill) November 6, 2015
https://twitter.com/sparkd12/status/662634154970865664
https://twitter.com/munilotmaniac/status/662634515345612800
https://twitter.com/railbirdj/status/662636260444475392
@WFNYScott Winners: Johnny, Duke, Marshall Faulk. Loser: Pettine for not using John and Duke in the 2nd half the way they did in the 1st.
— Aaron (@Moses4708) November 6, 2015
@WFNYScott Loser: Randy Starks. Dude thinks he was fighting for the WWE Title; My liver again, I can't do this lol
— Pat in Shaker (@PatNShaker) November 6, 2015
For good measure: One last Johnny GIF:
66 Comments
x.cooper (#96) was on the edge / end & t.gipson came up from his safety spot to occupy the ROLB position … and they both went the wrong way … no one was home.
Loser: The Browns for having to play 3 games in 12 days. And three games against superior teams, two of which are legitimate Super Bowl contenders. I don’t know what people were expecting. Of course they are going to lose.
Loser: Everyone making a huge deal of the halftime interview. Just like the Farmer interview I don’t see the reason to get all bent out of shape. It is hard to parse through coach speak as it is and that interview was on the fly. It didn’t sound like he was throwing Johnny under the bus, just making a candid observation. This might be part of the reason why Pettine is avoiding starting Johnny unless he absolutely has to. Pettine is trying to win games and with McCown in there he can focus on that. With Johnny in, he also has to work on his development, because, as entertaining as Johnny was, he is not going to succeed unless he can become a pocket passer at least some of the time. With Johnny in the game, they need to work on development and try and win the game, and Pettine may want to sit him so he can learn the pocket passer part in a closed environment so he does not just revert to the scrambling all the time.
Loser: Those conspiracy theorists that think Pettine has some type of vendetta against Johnny. Can we stop this please? These are grown men and professionals at that, they are not high school girls. They have sat Johnny most of the season and each time we see him he is appreciably better. I think sitting him and letting him develop that way is working and is a benefit to him.
full apologies to you, Mr. Orchard and his fam.
[How’s our third rounder Cooper doing? ;-)]
agree about the interview uproar. Pettine clarified today he didn’t mean Johnny shouldn’t move, but to stay there when the pocket held and get through his reads. And Marvin Lewis said at the half that they needed to keep Johnny in the middle by pinching off the edges, which they did well in the second half.
Agree about the vendetta thing as well. Pettine will go with the QB most likely to keep him as head coach, and he’s in a better position than me to judge whether that’s Johnny or Josh. If his decision backfires, or if neither will help him, he’ll face the consequences. And if the owner orders him to play one or the other, that’s what he’ll do, because the alternative is the pink slip. But it ain’t no vendetta. Pettine may not be a great HC, but he doesn’t seem childish either. His career is at stake.
Yeah I think what Pettine was probably trying to convey in that interview is something like “Cincinnati was letting him move around and Johnny had success because of it. Cincinnati is going to adjust to keep him contained. Johnny needs to be able to throw from the pocket if we have any chance in this game.”
You also can’t succeed in letting your short stature QB just bootleg out all the time effectively letting the defense play just half or less of the field.
I know it what Pettine said was a “bad look”, but he’s not saying anything that isn’t actually real.
Long term QB success is established pocket play with the ability to roll out occasionally or when necessary.
The guy who was supposed to have contain was 96 Xavier Cooper. I looked at the play and remember that Simms had mentioned it as well. Cooper went inside following the back and missed the reverse entirely.
lmao ! … not as well as orchard … but he’s getting more playing time & experience. thanks for asking.
Thanks, tb2. You are always a gentleman.
something like that
Raiders is an L and Ravens is a W.
Yeah, I picked the Raiders to be a W and was INCORRECT and I picked the Ravens to be an L which was also INCORRECT.
Oh, gotcha. My bad.
I must have missed what Starks did. I agree with the other two.
Agree with this thread. The Pettine vendetta thing is so silly, as is the parsing of his interview.