James Jones to re-sign: “I’ll be back in Cleveland for sure”
July 20, 2015When Indians attendance was truly an issue: Reliving Yesteryear
July 20, 2015Roughly one week ago, Cleveland Indians president Mark Shapiro discussed the addition of outfielder Brandon Moss, saying that the veteran slugger has been “as productive as hoped” who is “better than we thought defensively.” Fast forward to today, and we have ourselves a bit of a contradictory report, stating that the Tribe would love to move Moss if they can find a suitor for his contract.
Brandon Moss is in right field for the Indians this season and is under control in 2016 before he becomes a free agent. I believe Cleveland would love to move him. He’s making $6.5M this year and will see a substantial raise in 2016. Moss’s batting average (.218) and OBP (.294) have been a disappointment in Cleveland. He’ll likely hit 25-28 home runs but with below average defense that’s not what the Indians need right now. If they can find a taker before the trading deadline Moss will be somewhere else the reminder of this season.
The crux of the entire report is that the only way the current iteration of the Indians will compete is by improving defensively. For a team that has been searching for a right-handed bat for most of the last decade to just stand by and watch as the Kanas City Royals dominate the AL Central with defense, base-running and some timely pitching—well it appears that this is the new, attainable model. While it doesn’t appear that the author has much in the way of inside information (and that Shapiro’s thoughts may be more valid than lip service), Moss appears to be the piece in whom the Tribe could capitalize upon the most.
The FOX Sports piece iterates what all Tribe fans know: The areas of improvement remain in center field, right field and first base, or, everywhere that was supposed to be plugged by Michael Bourn and Nick Swisher. The team has this young, potent rotation locked up through 2020. If they want to compete for a title, it appears it’s going to have to be in the field more so than at the plate. Moving Moss, despite Shapiro’s thoughts, may be the first step in doing so.
The 2015 MLB trade deadline is July 31.
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25 Comments
“I believe Cleveland would love to move him.”
Stop reading, close window.
right, no sources contradict Shapiro’s actual statement. This guy just suggests what he imagines Shapiro must really think, which then becomes the headline “Indians Could Move Moss.” Well sure, but that could be said of other players too as long as we’re just spitballing.
The writer was clearly just speculating, but I could see this happening if somebody wants a little more power and wants to take a chance on him picking it back up in terms of batting average between this year and next, but we’re not going to get all that much for him. Might as well get what you can though, since next year it’s clear we’ll see somebody from the minors taking that spot and providing better defense at the very least. Besides, for the remainder of this year the Murphy/Raburn platoon is probably a better offensive option. Also, it’s high time they bring Jerry Sands back up.
The more interesting piece will be if they think about moving Santana. Despite the low BA I think he’d have some value with another year on his contract at a relatively good price as far as FA bats would go, and the potential for another year of team control after that if they want to pick up his $12M 2017 option. I don’t know if they can improve enough defensively to make it worth losing his offensive production (walks, mostly) but they’re stuck with Swisher for another year, and if he can play 1st, you could at least bring in somebody to play DH. I think they could theoretically be both buyers and Sellers if they shipped out both Moss and Santana.
Of course the real prize would be finding somebody who will take Bourn’s contract. He hasn’t actually been bad in CF just lately, but I think Tyler Holt would be an immediate upgrade, at least in terms of range. He could very well be an offensive upgrade too. He’s been scuffling in July so far (which is bad timing) but has had a very good year offensively in AAA. Just more speculation, but if they could unload Moss maybe they offer to pick up some of Bourn’s 2016 salary as a way to facilitate a trade.
Exactly. With the right offer, anyone could be moved. That’s true of probably 99.5% of players in MLB and sports.
I was just about to write similar: Credibility of “I believe Cleveland would love to move him.” = “Unnamed sources”
I can’t imagine there being any kind of market for any of these guys for the Indians even Carlos Santana. Outside of Kipnis, Brantley, Lindor, Allen and the starting pitchers I can’t think of another Indians player I’d want even Gomes.
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ONCE AGAIN Antonetti made a “boob” move by signing Moss. We’re stuck. .218 average for 6 and a half mil. salary? Quite attractive ha? Better stop Antonetti now because I think he’s attempting to get Mark Reynolds back.
Moss is doing pretty much exactly what his career averages indicate he would do. His value is a fWAR of 1.1 thus far, which already justifies his salary.
It would be nice if he could lift his average and OBP up a bit, but his power has thus far made up for it nicely.
Think of it this way, the Indians traded a minor leaguer they would not be using for Moss. Where would the offense be w/o Moss’ 15 HR, 17 doubles, and triple?
There would absolutely be a market for Santana if they wanted to move him. Even in a career worst year he has an above average OPS+ and historically he’s been better in the second half. He’s been worth 15 wins above replacement over the last four years (despite a negative dWAR each year) and he’s only 29. I think it would inevitably be a loss for us offensively to trade him, (as in it would be difficult to get similar production back and I’m not sure it exists in-house for this season) but if the Indians are trying to play a shell game to reshape the roster, he’s the most interesting piece we’ve got that it would make any sense to move.
He’s not the only guy with any value, though. If we were full-on selling, there would be suitors for short-term rentals of Raburn and Murphy (.880 and .815 OPS, respectively) and probably Moss, too.
I’m sure you wouldn’t be doing the trading for me. To justify a 6.5 million dollar salary with mediocre performance would be difficult for me to swallow. Where would our offense be? We’re in last place now ! If you haven’t noticed (through attendance) our fans are tired of mediocrity too. Keep the fire works and Sugardale dogs coming.
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you called Moss “signing” (though it was a trade) a “boob” move. I merely was showing you how it makes sense. Moss is not the reason we are in 4th (not last though certainly close).
$6.5mil on the open market is a mediocre talent these days. It’s relief pitcher money (Luke Gregerson, Zach Duke). Asdrubal Cabrera got $7.5mil.
the offense would be worse without Moss, which was my point there. Moss has flaws, but those were known when we traded for him. He has not “disappointed” unless you were expecting him to be more than he is.
Santana should be the poster boy for how analytics should be used in conjunction to what you actually see the player do in a game.
As for Murphy and Raburn the reason they have such a high OPS is because neither plays full time so if they have less at bats of course the number will be skewed. I really think you are kidding yourself if you think either of them will get anything back in a trade. At best maybe a prospect and not a AAA prospect.
The word “disappointed” has become a common term while following the Tribe. We drank the cool aid for 1) Francona: Lifetime managerial record of .500 even with a team that won pennants and 2 world series. Stevie Wonder could have made that line up. He’s the guy who two years ago sat Gomes the first half of the year while batting .300 the second half. The same year played Reynolds EVERY game until his release. What was that telling you? How about batting Santana clean up every game absolutely refusing to change because of stubbornness? if I remember correctly he was struggling to hit .210. He gave that pennant to Detroit. More cool aid: Swisher and Bourn. Swisher can’t shake the KNEEMONIA and the ONLY thing that Bourn can steal is his paycheck every 2 weeks. Heard these great things about getting Moss over the winter and they have NOT materialized, nor will they. Thank goodness Masterson turned down the 15 million a year offer! He’s home baking cookies. Who are even considered our EVERYDAY COMPITANT players? Do we have more than 2?
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Well, I am not sure that you are listening, but will attempt to reason one last time. If you just need to vent, then feel free to have at it. Venting can be good for the soul too.
2 everyday competent players (I assume you mean positional). It really depends on how we define competent, of course. If we are going to say MLB average or better than replacement player (which is closer to what a competent player would be). Let’s be pessimistic though and go with MLB average and better players:
(1) Kipnis
(2) Brantley
(3) Raburn+Murphy (counts as 1 DH and one of the best thus far)
(4) Roberto Perez (limited duty, but he’s been very good since a poor start and is now above average overall)
(5) Moss (yes, he’s above MLB average with his bat)
(6) Carlos Santana (flirting with the average line, right now he’s just above it)
—Lindor/Urshela are certainly competent defensively and we are living with their offense for now as they are prospects.
—That means the 2 unacceptable black holes in our lineup have thus far been CF & Catcher when Gomes is in (and he was a Silver Slugger last year).
Not sure about the Francona hatred, but there is something to be said about the only manager to get his team to come back from an 0-3 deficit. Then again, I do think that manager’s roles are pretty minimal other than to manage egos, etc.
2013 Carlos had an extremely good year. .268/.377/.455 — 60 extra base hits. It was the type of power that we were hoping he could continue.
Swish & Bourn – yeah, they have been ineffective though they are a big reason we made the playoff push in 2013, but now 2 lost years thus far.
to be fair – what’s Shapiro supposed to say? Of course he is going to talk big on the kid in order to keep his value up.
But I agree that there’s no meat on this bone.
The Mets are seriously looking at Raburn, since he has played multiple positions and hits righties well.
$6.5 million is no big deal anymore. I wish Moss would produce more, too, but the alternatives are looking just as bad (good).
“2 everyday competent players (I assume you mean positional). It really depends on how we define competent, of course. ”
it also depends on how we spell it, too.
First off I said STEADY EVERYDAY players. You listed 2 that are carrying their weight. No Francona hatred here — just the facts. Sounds like you had a glass or 2 of the cool aid too. There’s NO WAY to justify the incompetency of this team. Need to clean house and use rebuilding as an excuse.Even I’d drink some of that stuff then. We better keep the “old” guys just in case.
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Seriously? Single A prospect in return.
“Carrying their weight” is a bit difficult to quantify without a little bit more definition, but he listed 4 everyday players and a platoon (why should that not count? is it not smart to combine two players with particular strengths into a single good one?) that are, by the numbers, above average offensively. All of whom, I might add, are making less money than what Asdrubal Cabrera got on the open market. I’m having trouble finding the incompetence in those contracts.
Be honest: Were you happy when they signed Swisher and Bourn? Did you foresee all of their struggles? The reality is that both moves made sense at the time and those decisions still hold up to scrutiny. Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t.
Ah, you just want to vent. Go right ahead.
Watching another GREAT game now. 3-0 third inning —— GAME OVER!!!!!
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HOW DARE I VENT? Nice game ha?Bourn —3 strikeouts. Moss–hit into 2 double plays but did get 2 hits. Give credit where credit is due. I definitely see a vast improvement.N O T