The Ten Percent That Matters: Indians Spring Training Notes
February 25, 2015Only Browns fans can quiet the rage monster
February 25, 2015With the release of the Browns’ “new” primary logo, the Uni Talk band got back together for another recording session. With that, I enlisted the help of site co-founder Rick Grayshock and pulled him out of blogging retirement to talk about one of our favorite things: logos, helmets, uniforms, and typeface… OH MY! We hope you enjoy and give your input in the comments.
Kirk: Well Rick, the Browns getting a new logo was much too earth-shattering for me not to call upon you for a discussion once again. We now know the Browns will have brown facemasks, the helmets will be a brighter, more reddish hue of orange, the primary logo will remain the helmet, and they have refreshed the Dawg Pound logo along with the typeface. When we were discussing the Browns uniform set about a year and a half ago , what would you have said if I had told you back then what has unfolded to this point?
Rick: I don’t think the result is the strange part. I think the process, or the ‘how they hyped it’ is the strange part. I will say that I am very surprised the facemask isn’t a gray or gunmetal.
Kirk: I would agree with that. Before we can even dive into the gritty details any further , I feel like the fans are a bit to blame for the hype. On top of being impossible to collectively please, we perpetuated this hype and dreamed up delusions of grandeur. I feel like the Browns could have handled this better by cautioning us about the level of changes being made or doing this together with the uniform release, which sounds like it will be more exciting.
Rick: Well, they’ve been teasing us about new uniforms for two years. They formed focus groups out of groups of fans to give input on the changes. Then, they told us a week out that they would be releasing a redone logo, including blacking out the logo in their social media avatars. They offered the chance to be on an email list to get the changes as soon as they released them. If you were just going to make such minor changes to the logos, just release them without hype and tell us the uniform will drop on a certain date.
Kirk: Right, looking back, it makes a little more sense why they kept the chalk outline of the avatar, but two years to process new uniforms and one week to process a new primary logo is indeed a bit strange. I guess I’m more upset at how fans are reacting to the changes than I am at the actual design decisions they made or the poor decisions they made in the lead-up to the logo release.
Let’s move on to the premise of the helmet remaining the primary logo. How do you feel about that? Is there any source of pride from you for the team sticking to their guns here?
Rick: They really were in a no win situation. Saying that they were proud of being the only team whose logo is the helmet is what you are referring to, I suppose. I guess that is the nod to the past or history. I am mostly glad that they didn’t make the logo something bizarre.
Kirk: Here’s my take on the notion of the helmet as a primary logo: The more I thought about it, the more I realized just how many plain logos are completely acceptable across the league. I touched on it Monday , but how can you look at Green Bay, Chicago, San Francisco, both New York teams, and Cincinnati and call them anything particularly exciting? Those teams have largely stuck to their guns that they don’t need some ferocious looking mascot on their helmet or as their primary logo. The Browns are in a tough position, but I can admire them saying, “You know what? Part of what makes us unique is being the only team to do it this way.” That shouldn’t be looked upon as poorly as it has been in my mind.
I agree that it is far more dangerous to do something bold and outlandish that seems forced rather than sticking to what has been your football team’s identity for nearly 70 years.
Rick: I can agree with you for the most part there. I was dreading the inevitable C B fused together that I feared would be the new logo. Very boring.
While I’m talking about letters, can I just say that I don’t understand anyone choosing a sans-serif font? Seriously, serifs are there to make things easier to read.
Kirk: So you consider the new typeface a downgrade then?
Rick: I would. No serifs and all the same color is tougher to read. Why not use two-tone if you aren’t going to go with a serif font?
Kirk: Yea, I like the idea of a bolder font, but it does seem to fall a little short in the execution. It’s a little forgettable or maybe it’s unique for the wrong reasons.
Let’s go back to the helmet color. What are your thoughts on the orange brightening? I feel like we have to squint now to tell the difference between us and the Bengals!
Rick: I really thought for a while that we were going to see a metallic orange helmet. No logo, but much more like many of the college alternate helmets.
While I may personally prefer a muted orange, I don’t hate it.
Kirk: Well, that’s hard to convey in a logo. It could in theory still have either a flat/matte or metallic/shiny finish, couldn’t it? A couple examples that have been thrown around for this “candy orange”, if you will, are Oregon State and Oklahoma State.
Rick: It absolutely could. The logo really couldn’t be a metallic. I do think that would have been an easier change if you had changed the logo.
Kirk: When I look at the two colors side-by-side, I don’t know which I prefer. The old is more of a burnt orange (like Texas), but my criticism is it can look a little faded at times in certain light. This orange will have no problems with that. Honestly, the biggest thing for me to get over will be just how close it is to Cincinnati.
Rick: Lighting has made the Browns helmets look different in the past, but as far as the Bengals thing, I think the stripes are the thing you think about when you think of the Bengals. I don’t think it will be an issue with me.
Kirk: That’s fair. I think the Browns actually out-bolded the Bengals in color if that’s possible. When you look at them side-by-side, the Browns’ orange seems deeper.
Let’s briefly talk about what we think this means for the uniforms. We’ve heard Tony Grossi speculate that a fourth color (gunmetal gray, possibly) is going to enter the mix. Are you scared about where they’re going with that potentially?
Rick: We’ve been hearing that they will likely include silver or gray. I thought the Pro-Bowl uniforms may have been the silver they end up with. Honestly, I’m ok with another color as long as it is integrated well. Not like the black for black’s sake (BFBS) we see so often.
Kirk: Yes, black for black sake is the worst, I think we can agree on that. And we don’t have to worry about that due to Bengal overlap
We’ve heard about possibly three different tops and three different pants. With four colors, how do you see those breaking out? Personally, I’m thinking they’re going to shock us and go with a gray jersey and an orange jersey each and toss the brown or white jersey out (if they can toss the white jersey by NFL rules). For pants, I expect gray, orange, and brown.
Rick: I’d be stunned if we saw brown on brown anymore. I don’t think they can just eliminate the white jersey.
Kirk: I was thinking orange/gray, white/brown, gray/orange possibly. They’re saying it’s going to be more out there. Removing the brown jersey would be just that. I am definitely not in favor of doing it though.
Rick: I think there will still be a mostly brown jersey, and then an orange/grey alternate perhaps. Plus the road white.
Kirk: Maybe they’ll only pair the orange and gray as the alternate. That might be more likely.
Ok, finally, what do you think about the Dawg Pound logo refresh and the decision to keep Brownie around but only in his unofficial, smiling mascot capacity?
Rick: I kind of think that was the easy thing to do, the safe choice, so to speak. There are a lot of people that hate the elf logo. Changing the dog wasn’t going to cause a riot. Nobody really has that much of an attachment to the old bulldog logo. I think it is a little more kid friendly as well. They will sell a lot of kids shirts and sweatshirts with that dog logo.
Kirk: When we talked last time, I was fan of Brownie as the primary logo only because it was steeped in more history and very unique compared to the dog concepts. I still would like to be able to buy the occasional Brownie gear. As for the Dawg Pound logo refresh, I think it’s a net positive. It’s a lot of orange, and I’m not wild about the lack of connecting boundaries for the dog’s face, but I think the profile and the angle are a step up.
I think it’s completely fine to have a Dawg Pound logo in the capacity that they’re going to have it, at an arm’s length to give the fan base an identity and sell some merchandise. In the end, it just didn’t make sense to have that logo on ESPN, NFL Network, etc.
Rick: I’m with you on it being at least a slight step up from the previous dog logo.
Kirk: Well Rick, it’s been a pleasure, and now we patiently await for some promised-to-be more thrilling changes on April 14 when we see what the Browns will be wearing this fall.
Rick: We’ll have to talk again then.
13 Comments
The new Dawg Pound logo looks even better as a silhouette on a white background as you have it above. Actually wouldn’t mind a brown hat with that logo by itself in white (or orange).
As Scheiner said, people are going to realize this is a much bigger change than they thought. I actually think they released the color change separately as part of the otherwise unchanged logo to tamp down the reaction. “Jimmy Haslam Passionate Jumpsuit Orange” is more accurately described as red. We used to have a reddish orange, and now we have a slightly orange-tinted red. There isn’t much they could have done that would actually change the on-field appearance more than they’ve done without a complete break.
Yesterday’s changes are nothing to be thrilled about and nothing to get upset about. They’re nothing really, which is fine with me. This stuff isn’t very important. It’s the uniforms that will matter.
BTW, I always get a kick out of the graphic-artist-speak that generally accompanies a redesign. “Yes, the new typeface reflects the indusbionous comblamity of the blah blah blah blah blah.” Please give us a break with this nonsense. It’s a run-of-the-mill typeface, for cryin’ out loud; it carries no deep meaning.
Another way that designers justify their pay is by switching back and forth between styles. “Yes, we changed to a sans serif font because it’s cleaner and blah blah blah blah blah.” Followed by, “Yes, we’ve changed to a serif font because it’s more dynamic and blah blah blah blah blah.” God love ’em.
Spencer Lanning approves of the brown facemask’s ability to hide footprints.
Good conversation.
Personally, I like the new typeface a lot better. Much like Rick, I think I liked the muted orange better, but agreed it washes out a lot and this will not. And I’m guessing that the brown facemasks will make more sense when we see the full uniforms, and that the visuals will ‘pop’ more on screen and in real life when it’s all together.
I think the Dawg Pound logo is a huge improvement, and though I actually prefer it stay solely as a fan/stadium thing (and as they’ve done expanded to be the whole stadium), it wouldn’t shock me to see those eyes or that snarl on an alternate uniform somewhere.
Finally, we get to confirm (yet again) that all the people who claim to know stuff are full of crap. For that alone, this change is worthwhile.
It’s dangerous to discount indusbionous comblamity. Didn’t work for the Japanese in WW2; it’s not going to work for us here.
if they’re insistent on keeping the dog pound, they should tweak the dog pound endzone boundary so that it has the hill and low fence like the original pound (municipal) had.
a caller brought this up to scheiner on a radio show yesterday and i thought scheiner liked the idea. of course there’s dozen of reasons why it can’t be done easily but that doesnt mean it shouldnt be done. as it stands the ‘dawg pound’ is just another section in another nouveau stadium.
If it’s one franchise that needed a complete break it’s this one. April can’t get here soon enough well until it does and then most likely it’ll be one more moment to hope that the last 15 years have been nothing more then a bad nightmare and you will soon wake up!
http://counterinception.com/sites/default/files/pictures/MatrixBluePillRedPill.jpg
I’ll take the….orange?… pill
LMFAO !!
The problem the browns have is that the Helmet logo is well know and easily recognizable. From a marketing position, it would like McDonalds changing the golden arches because “They needed a fresh start”. Sure, it would be new and exciting, but the 6 billion people that know the Golden Arches mean McDonalds would lose brand recognition. When the football team improves, people will be glad we still have the Orange Helmet.
Not unopposed to metallic gold trim/striping if we are introducing a fourth color. Silver? Meh. Maybe I’ve been looking at too much gray/road salt covered stuff for too long.
hi ABE … i also have a feeling gray or silver will be the 4th color.