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February 3, 2015
The 2015 NFL rumor season is upon us and the Browns with their two first round picks are sure to be at the heart of rumor and speculation. It’s also no surprise on the heels of a Johnny Manziel rehab revelation that the speculation would shift into another gear entirely. It goes with the territory when you’ve got two bullets in your gun while everyone else only has one. In this Insider Buzz video from Bleacher Report, Jason Cole is already saying that the Browns could move up for Marcus Mariota or Jameis Winston. That’s obviously not saying a lot to say that the Browns might try and use their draft leverage to draft one of the best quarterbacks available, but Cole does give us a little bit more. He indicates that the Browns have Mariota ahead of Jameis Winston based on what he’s hearing. The only question is how much ahead and how highly do they think of Mariota overall?
We’ll continually bring this stuff to your attention, but we’ll also be trying to make some sense of it all as things move along to the combine and to the draft itself.
It’s a later start than we normally get here in Cleveland Browns territory, but welcome to draft rumor season, folks.
33 Comments
Frankly I’m surprised it took this long to happen as Craig points out. Sure, why not, what could go wrong? Heck trade all your draft picks. Get another Heisman winning bust at QB!
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/uno1.gif
Not worth it. Trading up to #1 would have to cost at least 3 first round picks. I have a feeling Mariota is just a product of the Oregon system. That offense is so good, they always put up big numbers. Darron Thomas, Dennis Dixon, Jeremiah Masoli?
Jason Cole is already saying that the Browns could move up for Marcus Mariota or Jameis Winston.
being lazy, using the draft value chart, the Browns #12 + #19 picks are worth 200 pts. The #1 overall pick is worth 3000pts, which means they Brown’s would likely have to throw-in their 2016 1st round pick and more to make such a trade.
if Mariota slipped past QB-needy teams in Tampa and Tennessee, then, technically, our 2 1st round picks have enough value to jump up to Oakland at #4. of course, we would likely be fighting NYJ (#6) for the pick and Oakland is thought to value Amari Cooper a ton (Washington at #5 is unlikely to draft a WR).
and, that is going on the antiquated draft value chart where the new rookie salary structure makes those top10 picks worth much more than they were in the past. I don’t think the Brown’s will be able to get up high enough for Mariota and I am not sure that they should either (I think he can be successful, but it’s going to be a more WCO-dominant offense where he would find his best success IMO).
No doubt he’s a product of that system. Now he appears to be smarter and definitely bigger but no thank you. If Winston wasn’t such a head case and didn’t have all of the off-field baggage very similar to one Johnny Manziel I’d favor him over Mariota. But honestly there isn’t a QB on the top six teams in college football that I’d want…unless they fell to second round.
1999: Drafted a legitimate option at QB. Didn’t work out.
2004: Eschewed the best QB draft in a long time to draft a project in the 4th round.
2005: Riding the “MAC wave” they missed in 2004, draft a 3rd round undersized MAC project QB.
2007: Drafted a legitimate (?) option late in the 1st round.
2010: Drafted an undersized project QB in the 3rd round.
2012: Drafted a player who was close to retirement age late in the 1st round.
2014: Drafted an undersized player with infinite red flags late in the 1st round.
Can the Browns please break the cycle of drafting QBs who are almost certain not to work out. Aside from Couch and maybe Quinn, most of the QBs the Browns drafted were never going to work.
Great points AND five first round draft picks in the last three years none of which has panned out. I mean when Mingo is the best you can do I think nothing else needs to be said.
Winston is clearly the cream of this class, but I agree. With the Manziel debacle in the forefront of every GM’s mind, he’s such an incredible risk.
Regarding Winston, all together now . . . CHARACTER COUNTS!
I’m just not a fan the fact that FSU had to dumb down the offense where Fisher basically gave Winston simple options like if read 1 isn’t there read 2 doesn’t help. Add in the off-field stuff and the Cleveland Browns would have to be out of their minds to even think about him.
Question, do the draft picks spent on Manziel count into this equation at all as well or just current draft selections?
To take Manziel off our hands, we would likely have to give a team additional draft compensation at the present time.
It certainly doesn’t hurt which brings me to Mr. Manziel. I want to clarify my comments yesterday about him. As a human being I’m glad for whatever reason it appears/sounds/reads like he is getting some much needed help. However I’ll believe it when I see it. This guy has been having issues since he was in HS hell his own parents had to bribe the kid with a car for goodness sakes. So it’s not like there isn’t a history. Furthermore I heard yesterday from no less then five different media people that the Browns knew all about Manziel and his off field problems. The fact they still drafted him just reinforces my feelings about how much of an embarrassment this organization continues to be even after another ownership change.
Which brings me to an important question that I have for all of the bleeding hearts on here: If Manziel has had these kinds of issues since HS and the Browns knew about it and still drafted him then what exactly did they do for this guy when he started representing them as a member of the Browns?
I hadn’t read the dumb it down stuff. That certainly makes a big difference.
I can’t remember if I used to believe this, but I now feel pretty confident that Haslam made the Johnny pick. Hindsight is 20/20, but in this case you barely need hindsight to see that this was going to be a disaster.
But OMG SEC HYPE! Sell JERSEYS! I own the team now! Hoot! Holler! Go to hell, FBI!
One of the college pregame broadcasters a former QB don’t ask me which one went over it. It was also mentioned in the game. Supposedly Fisher took all of Winston’s reads away and basically called the plays and gave him the progressions. Now of course I don’t know whether this is 100% true but the fact that I heard two different broadcasters reference it I have to believe there’s validity.
That seems to be a popular belief and I wouldn’t bet against it which is another example of why I’m so down on this franchise. What makes it worse, if true, is Farmer covering for his owner by saying he made the decision. I honestly feel sorry for Mike Pettine. It makes this team ending 7-9, even though we all know how bad it ended for consecutive weeks, kind of amazing.
At the very least, I do like Pettine and the fact that they got rid of Lombardi. If Banner didn’t insist on performing a role he was incapable of succeeding in, I wouldn’t have minded if he was still around. But since that’s not the case, I’m glad he’s gone too.
So that’s a ray of hope?
Pettine as a first year head coach had so much extracurricular crap to deal with it’s why nobody wants to work for the Cleveland Browns. Could you imagine being Pettine last year? No thanks.
Speaking of Ray…Farmer…I had high hopes for him but honestly I think he’s just a Yes man for Haslam. The fact his draft ended up being s&%t along with him publicly saying what he did about the WR position and then of course Manziel didn’t help me. I get you have to have an ego to do the job but to me it seems like all the Browns hire are people with egos who for one reason or another cannot put the team first. Meaning they do it one way, their way, never go outside of the box starting with really working with their coaches on players. They draft guys then expect coaches to make those guys work or even worse make them better. This is the NFL. If a guy doesn’t have the talent to be in the league the chances are slim that coaching alone will make up for the deficiencies. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen or won’t it just means it takes a lot longer to achieve if it ever does. Just my opinion right or wrong it’s how I feel.
I hated the man at the time but I have to admit that so far Banner has been proven right in every move he made or wanted to make.
1) Trade Richardson
2) Wanted to trade Gordon
3) Didn’t want Manziel
4) Hired the entire business-side of the franchise which seems to be working great
5) Brought in Hoyer
6) Free agency pickups
But his drafting sucked.
Aside from Des Bryant, who else did he bring in?
Let’s go item by item.
1) Trade Richardson – undoubtedly a good move.
2) Wanted to trade Gordon – doubt we would have gotten much and would have been better to trade him after the season he had.
3) Didn’t want Manziel – he and Lombardi were supposedly both infatuated with Manziel. at least reportedly.
4) Hired the entire business-side of the franchise which seems to be working great – changing uniforms (to be seen), raising ticket prices, Tenn shaped scoreboard. other than being a NFL team, what is the business aspect that you love they have done?
5) Brought in Hoyer – to mixed results though at least he was better than Campbell and Weeden (and again, Hoyer was decidedly a Lombardi guy, but okay if we are combining the two here)
6) Free agency pickups – refused to extend Mack and Ward. Picked up Kruger, Des Bryant, Groves, Barnidge, Kellen Davis, Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Rashad Butler, Jason Campbell, Brandon Jackson, David Nelson, Shayne Graham, . Kruger was a good pass rush specialist this past year, Des is pretty decent when healthy (was red flag on health when signed). Rest were busts including Barnidge who I like but is a TE3 on any decent team.
But his drafting sucked. – really your #7 and I agree.
I mean, everything that Banner did wasn’t bad. But, the overall sum wasn’t good and we did not get into his apparent abrasiveness in the hiring process that supposedly scared off Chip Kelly and other candidates (I am happy with Pettine though).
Lombanner’s worst thing was he was morale killer. Fans hated them, the local media hated them, most players didn’t like them.
Just watch the disastrous intro press conference to get the picture. What a trainwreck that was. lol
Lombardi’s hiring goes to the ego aspect that I spoke of about Ray Farmer except with Lombardi it was Banner’s ego. He didn’t care about Lombardi’s past connection in Cleveland so he brought in who he wanted & Haslam just went along. It was doomed from the start no matter which way you look at it. Banner’s ego or Lombardi’s horrible previous connection.
We can never really judge the business side because we don’t see/hear it all which is why I never try to include it when I make the usual bad assessment of this organization. Banner hit a homerun with Richardson but basically that was his only homerun. Is this good? Not for me. Not when you look at the rest of what occurred under his watch.
But the main reason I am replying to you is because isn’t it amazing how many front office changes there have been not to mention three ownership changes (I’m counting Al to Randy as a change since Al didn’t retire he died) and yet this organization continues to be plagued by personnel decisions? The fact that the list of QBs is 20+ deep is a complete an utter embarrassment for anyone associated with this team.
The churn destroys many of the personnel decisions before they ever have a chance to succeed. Without consistent leadership, system, and methods, there just is not an environment for success in place.
I am really interested to see if Haslam is willing to be patient with Farmer & Pettine and see what they can do given time to develop players. It would be nice to actually draft guys who do well enough in the same system to prove they deserve a 2nd contract with us.
Oh I agree the problem has been the horrible decisions made the initial year by the front office. This is why I gave a pass to Farmer mostly. Pettine didn’t deserve to be fired not with all of the crap he had to deal with Monday through Saturdays. Farmer’s on a short leash for me. He has this free agency period and draft to better account for himself. If he doesn’t do better particularly when he has a pair of first round picks then he’d be in danger of going. And when I say do better I don’t mean packaging them in order to move up to draft another potential Heisman bust at QB. I keep hearing this tired refrain of having to take another shot at a QB because it’s the most important position on the team. Yes it is the most important but not at the continued detriment of the rest of the team. When you factor in the risks of moving up along with the long range ramifications of all but nuking drafts for years to come it’s like burning all of your yearly crops in order to get rid of bugs in one area of the field. At least to me.
Btw Josh Alcohol ain’t a drug Gordon just was suspended for a year by the NFL!
2) There was an offer for a 2nd rounder from San Fran IIRC. We could’ve used that to score a WR in this prior draft.
3) Banner commissioned the 100k QB study that told the team to stay away from Manziel. Lombardi and the Pats’ Belichek both agreed Manziel was trouble and not worth the babysitting effort.
4) Is the stadium experience better? I used to have season tix and only made it to one game this year and the experience is night and day better. Faster in, faster to seats, more engaging, better sound, the scoreboard is fantastic, the food is better. This is of course subjective, but I was impressed.
5) Who in last year’s FA class put up a better record than Hoyer?
6) Seeing the list in totality, it is underwhelming fo sho.
7) Chip Kelly has disappointed considering the roster he inherited to me. I prefer Pettine like you.
Farmer’s 1st round picks had a rough year, but I believe he made up for it with some great moves to get talent in the door from other spots. We had a lot of 1st year Brown guys making significant contributions. Now, those guys need to continue to improve and Farmer needs to keep it up, but I don’t see his seat being at all warm.
For Pettine, well, 7 wins is the most Browns have had in quite some time.
On the QB, if we give up a RGIII haul to move up, then we better hope for RGIII rookie results continually, not just in year1. I don’t think it happens though even if we want to move up (too many teams ahead of us that could trump what we would offer).
Farmer did better later in the draft then he did in round 1 which is insanely backwards to me. You cannot botch one first let alone two first round picks and have a draft be considered good I’m sorry. That being said I’m holding out hope on Gilbert. Manziel, you know how I feel. Feel just like I did with Weeden. Maybe worse.
There isn’t a QB this draft or for that matter Griffin himself who was worth that haul. Griffin has shown it. Mariota is RG4 and Winston I wouldn’t draft if it was the Steelers pick. As we start to see draft lists and stuff people will see just how risky the next crop of QBs are coming out especially after the top two. Last year all I heard was how good the next year will be, yea, right.
Yes, you can. It is just much more difficult. I don’t care what round the players were drafted.
Cleveland can’t not in past 15 years.
Don’t forget we burned a draft pick trading up in 2014 to get the undersized running QB with red flags who fell in the first round, when we could have gotten Carr and kept the draft picks…