JT and Cardale to the Rescue — WFNY’s Top 10 Cleveland Sports Stories of 2014: No. 7
December 18, 2014Joe Thomas on the difference between player and fan perspective
December 19, 2014Welcome to the Friday before Christmas my fellow WaitingForNextYear-ians. WFNY’ers. To my Christmas-celebrating folks, congrats, you made it. To my Jewish friends, know that I’m jealous and wish I was at the movies with you next Thursday. When I got to college and a couple of my new Jewish friends let me in on the cliche of getting Chinese food and going to the movies, I was ready to turn in my Christmas stockings and tree altogether. Anyway, enough about the holidays.
In 2014, Amazon.com is finally catching up to Kozmo.com 15 years later…
I was reading about Amazon.com’s new “Prime Now” service in New York City where they’re doing deliveries of certain products within an hour for a fee. It sounds so novel and new, except that it brings me back to my college days with Kozmo.com. We used to order all kinds of electronics, movies, tobacco products and even small containers of Ben and Jerry’s ice cream and a dude on a bike would show up a short time later with our stuff. Of course Kozmo was ahead of its time as many companies were way back when the dot-com bubble burst. The company folded in 2001.
It just makes me wonder if those Kozmo founders are feeling vindicated that their plan was a good one, just that they needed to survive long enough to be gobbled up by the internet commerce wave.
Anyway, I miss Kozmo. I still remember Kozmo and I have all four of my promotional Kozmo plastic cups to prove it.
The real point of what Bernie Kosar and Tim Couch are saying is being lost…
Most who have heard what Bernie Kosar and Tim Couch have had to say reflexively want to dismiss it. Some attack Kosar as a bitter, distanced former player. Some paint Tim Couch as an excuse-making never-was who failed out of the league, but I’m not willing to simply leave it at that. This isn’t even really about Brian Hoyer, but we kind of have to talk about him because he’s the current guy here.
I take exception to the idea that I might have some kind of preference for Brian Hoyer because he’s a Cleveland guy or that he might be associated with any kind of “lunch pail” as Denny sometimes comments. I really have grown to despise the local preference for players and staff. At this stage of the game, whether we’re talking about Chud’s proclivity for dog biscuits or Brian Hoyer’s roots at Ignatius, it’s just meaningless to me. I mean when you talk about a team in a town that once pumped up the local flavor of punter Dave Zastudil, LeCharles Bentley and Joe Jurevicius all in the same off-season, it’s all just finished by the time you get to Brian Hoyer and Donte Whitner. At least it’s over for me. The real reason that I’m thinking long and hard about Brian Hoyer right now has everything to do with actual football.
It’s easy to look at the most recent sample, but I’d also like to look at the most recent samples from all other quarterbacks in Cleveland. Other than Tim Couch, who the team committed the better part of four seasons to as the starter, the only other quarterbacks that had more than one season were Derek Anderson and Colt McCoy. I can hear you all saying, “But Craig, those guys stunk! Are you suggesting we should have committed to them even longer?”
Maybe.
All I’m saying is that the Browns need to have a better perspective on the big picture and we as fans need to have it too. Everyone knows how fickle the NFL can be as coaches and quarterbacks find themselves on hot seats from week-to-week. It’s also easy to get embroiled in a current season when things start to go badly as the Browns have this season. Let’s remember who Brian Hoyer is though.
We spend so much time thinking about what Brian Hoyer isn’t, that I think we forget what he is. Brian Hoyer is a player of value in the NFL. You will be sorely disappointed if you expect him to be your offensive MVP, and that seems problematic at the QB position, but not as disappointed as you’ll be if the QB position is filled by a person of even lesser value than Brian Hoyer. Brian Hoyer was a welcome relief to Brandon Weeden. He was a superior player to Jason Campbell. He’s shown the ability to understand the game in front of him. He’s shown that he’s a better quarterback, currently, than Johnny Manziel. Johnny Manziel has two more starts, of course, but I don’t think it’s even remotely controversial to say that Hoyer’s experience makes him better right this second, warts and all. For all the physical advantages that Johnny Manziel has – and I’m a loud fan of Manziel’s – he lacks experience and knowledge about running a pro offense.
I’ll say it again. Right now, Brian Hoyer is a better NFL quarterback than Johnny Manziel, even if he’s a far worse prospect.
We constantly talk about the Browns committing to a quarterback or a coach, or to an idea, but the mere mention that they actually commit to the idea of consistency is so foreign to this fanbase that I’m almost afraid to bring it up sometimes because I don’t want to talk about it anymore. I’m talking about something more though. If the Browns re-signed Brian Hoyer and named him starter for next season, it would show me something.
To me, it wouldn’t be them saying they don’t believe in Johnny Manziel. It wouldn’t be them giving up on finding a quarterback capable of winning the Super Bowl. It would be a commitment to consistency. It would be a commitment to Joe Thomas. It would be a commitment to Miles Austin, should he return. It would be a commitment to Alex Mack. Most importantly, it would be a commitment to the Cleveland Browns’ defense that should hit their stride right out of camp next year in their second year in Pettine’s defense. The Trent Dilfer in Baltimore example is too well worn by this point, but for one year with everything else shining in Baltimore, Trent Dilfer managed to keep from being an impediment.
None of this is to say that Brian Hoyer is Trent Dilfer, let alone Tom Brady. That pre-season storyline was as vomit-inducing as the oversold “blue collar lunch pail” thing. It’s simply to say that Brian Hoyer, with all his faults, limited upside, and physical limitations probably still gives the Cleveland Browns the best chance to win for another season. He’s a known quantity and even if that’s a half-filled cup, it’s sometimes easier to build around something that is known. We’ve seen the alternatives too many times, but we live in denial. We’ve seen Jason Campbell and Brandon Weeden, and Colt McCoy and Brady Quinn. For all that Brian Hoyer can’t be, he can be something more worthy than a great many alternatives. Why is it that we’re so quick to forget that? He can at least be a known quantity that the Browns can plan around to help try and maximize all the other stocks in the portfolio… for one more year.
Your weekly moment of soccer zen…
Some nice highlight passing on this exchange before the goal.
How did I miss out on the band Royal Blood this year?
I paid more attention to music this year than any year in the past decade I think. Still, even with all my paying attention, I missed out on the band royal Blood until just this week. They’re a bit like the Black Keys or White Stripes because they’re a drummer and a (bass) guitar player / singer. Still they’re different because they feel a bit more consistently hard rock to me. There’s a bit of a Queens of the Stone Age aesthetic to the sound. Regardless of how you categorize it, it’s good rock and roll music and I am happy I found it, if late.
71 Comments
no, that’s him on the whole, the eyes themselves are more like:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/dabe1959d812bf5b2ce811e14d2610f5/tumblr_n5inv2Ra621tu7965o1_500.gif
I hear that Jeff George is still available and willing to take the veteran’s minimum.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/19/jeff-george-says-he-could-pick-up-colts-offense-in-a-matter-of-days/
Better:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/14/kurt-warner-admits-he-considered-returning-to-cardinals/
Another little known fact: JFK loved meth. He was regularly visited by Dr. Max Jacobson, who was well known for supplying many famous and powerful people with his miracle cure, a.k.a. meth.
But only sometimes.
I couldn’t disagree more, obviously. This had less to do with Hoyer putting things on tape than it did with Alex Mack going down, losing Miles Austin, Josh Gordon weirdness and the running game disappearing. These aren’t excuses for Brian Hoyer. A great quarterback could deal with those and still find some success. Brian can’t. I know this. So what? What’s the alternative?
Brian Hoyer as Jason Campbell with a weaker arm? Sure, I’ll buy that. I’m simply saying that you can plan around a limited quarterback by investing in the offensive line, running game and defense. I’m neither ready to give up on Johnny Manziel or hand him the keys, but what’s the alternative?
Name Hoyer the starter. Sign him for what works like a two year deal. Use those draft picks on a nose tackle, linebacker or an offensive lineman. I’d rather bet my 2015 on Hoyer and a bolstered roster than with Johnny Manziel and Connor Shaw. The minute you think this offensive failure down the stretch was all on Hoyer, I think you’re guilty of overstating it.
Name him the starter now? Really? I can see defending re-signing him and letting their be a QB competition, but how do you know Manziel won’t be a better QB after two more starts, a whole off-season, and training camp.
Ideally Johnny would take that job. But Hoyer is a nice Plan B.
for his own sake, I hope that Hoyer is better than a weak-armed Jason Campbell.
beside that though, you are basically throwing 2015 away. I don’t see us getting past 6 wins with next year’s schedule and Hoyer starting. and, if he plays like he did his last 4 games, then it’s going to be much worse.
was the offensive decline all on him? of course not. Alex Mack was huge for our offense. Our running game fell apart without him and Hoyer obviously needs that running game. But, if he is incapable of winning the Indy game, then we cannot go into next year with him as our undisputed starter.
I would MUCH rather hedge the bets on Johnny by signing a very good backup. That is what Hoyer is, but it’s more complicated with him if he stays, and I don’t think he would be willing to stay for that job.
Grab one of the other FA QBs. Put them in a competition for the starting spot. Make Johnny realize that it’s not HIS job this offseason so that he works for it. Hopefully, the pilot gets lit and Manziel takes the job. If not, then we have our secondary option in place.
Agree, mostly. What other FA QB would you actually want here? Locker, Mallet, Sanchez, Vick? Colt McCoy? Blaine Gabbert? Christian Ponder? I agree that keeping Hoyer here would be… awkward… but in some ways I think he’s the backup I’d want most.
Agreed. That’s why I don’t see why you’d name him the starter now.
Agreed. Just don’t reach for a QB. We have wasted too many picks doing this.
I just don’t see Hoyer accepting it and I’d worry it wouldn’t light enough of a fire under JFF’s arse. Bradford (will likely be cut) is probably the top option and Locker is a better QB than Hoyer (if he can stay healthy), but neither is a guy I want to stake my team on.
The issue with them (and Hoyer) is that we’ll likely have to wait for the musical chairs on starting opportunities to stop before we can swoop in with a backup-competing-to-start offer.
I agree with that. It’s one of the reason I still defend the “sign Hoyer now” opinions I voiced earlier this season. Because even if we were overpaying him to be a backup, he’s still one of the better options out there.
That said, it would have created a media-driven storm and QB controversy. Of course, if Manziel keeps playing the way he did last Sunday, we’re going to have one of those regardless of whom we have as our back-up.
No time for a full reply but I didn’t put it all on Hoyer. And saying it’s Hoyer, Johnny or Shaw in 2015 is a false choice. There’s a draft a comin’. And we havent even talked about what money Hoyer wants or may get elsewhere.
The now consistently errant uncontested throws, the picks, that’s not anointed starter stuff.
Accepting that injuries are going to happen to every team, how far do you think this team can get with Hoyer at QB?
The goal should not be to scrape out as many 2015 wins as possible, but to actually build a contender. Especially when the best you’ve done is seven wins against a soft schedule.
Has Bradford ever finished a whole game, let alone a season? Not who I’d pick as a backup.
i’ve never been high on him, but that’s why he would be available and a possibility. backups have fatal flaws in them that you can hopefully hide for a few games if needed.
Because Manziel isn’t just making rookie mistakes. He is a project who needs some major work on his everything. I say sign Hoyer, fire Dowell Loggains and get the best QB coach you can and spend 2015 rebuilding Manziel and not the Browns…again!
He didn’t want to have to restart his HOF eligibility clock
Draft Hundley with second round pick if he falls to us.