The NBA regular season is finally here: While We’re Waiting…
October 27, 2014Cleveland Browns Week 8 Winners and Losers
October 27, 2014It’s just too darn early on a Monday morning for a Woj Bomb. Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports reports that the Cleveland Cavaliers are engaged in “serious talks” on a contract extension for Anderson Varejao.
Talks have progressed in recent weeks, but there’s no agreement imminent, sources said.
Varejao, 32, could become an unrestricted free agent in July 2015. Nevertheless, he and Cavaliers officials have a mutual desire to reach an agreement in the near future and continue a 10-year partnership.
It’s interesting to me that this would be happening now. Varejao’s value is well-known by this point. His playing style is really helpful in ways that don’t always show up in the box score. That being said, we’re not too far removed from Varejao being considered injury-prone. We’re also not too far removed from critics saying that Varejao’s last contract was a little too rich for what the big man brings. Varejao is in the last year of his contract with the Cavaliers and he’s making just shy of $10 million this year.
Back in 2007, Anderson Varejao signed an offer sheet with the Charlotte Bobcats that the Cavaliers matched to retain him. Then, after the 2008-09 season, Varejao signed the biggest contract of his career for 6 years and $42.5 million. At that point, he was coming off a year where he played 81 games, averaging 28.5 minutes while scoring just over 8.5 points and 7 rebounds per game. The box score didn’t really tell the tale as far as Cleveland fans were concerned though. Most of the rest of the NBA considered it a bad deal, if I remember correctly. Of course, that changed and as recently as February of 2012, Bill Simmons wanted the Celtics to trade for Varejao.
Still, it will be interesting to see what kind of extension the Cavaliers are discussing with Varejao. As much as I and the rest of Cavs fans love him, the fact is he’s only averaged 44 games per season in the past five years. His production has been good, and he still brings all the same intangibles he’s ever brought to the team, but if you’re paying for production going forward, you might be a bit wary of giving too many years and too many dollars to a 32-year-old with a history of issues staying on the court and a pretty decidedly violent playing style.
All that being said, I still would love to see Varejao play his entire career with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Not that he shouldn’t get to make top market salary for the rest of his career, but I hope he and the Cavaliers find that delicate balance between fair compensation and reasonable risk-reward for the club paying that contract. I’m not sure what that even looks like just yet.
36 Comments
I have a feeling this will be a topic for the next few years, but there really are no “good” deals from a value standpoint. If Andy will command more than vet minimum and you wish to keep him here beyond this season, you have to pay him. The team can’t be a player in free agency any longer (unless it’s for Ray Allen, etc.) and tying up their loose ends now makes sense. It’s also why paying Tristan makes sense—you may have to overpay, but you wont get anything near his skill set in the open market. It also helps that both players are good friends with LeBron and appear to be in this for the journey, not just this year’s stop.
Scott,
What dollar amount and how many years would you give Andy? Same question for Tristan..
Kind of saw this coming after listening to Windhorst’s recent podcast. It’s not all about paying the bigs according to their market value. Locking up veterans, including Tristan, will be important to keep the Cavs from exceeding the cap so much that they hit the salary “apron” next year. Hitting the salary apron would prevent them by rule from trading Haywood’s valuable expiring contract and also prevent them from using their mid-level exemption in 2015-2016.
Because Gilbert is willing to spend and pay the tax they can exploit the NBA cap rules and maybe add another valuable piece next year. But the danger in letting Andy and Tristan hit the market is that another team can front load their offer. Matching that would kill a bunch of potential moves Griffin may be planning.
Respectfully disagree. There are deals to be had. Example: Ed Davis, who put up almost identical per 36 numbers (13 and 10) to Tristan (on a higher fg%), but signed with the Lakers on a 2 yr, 2 million deal this summer.
I could be wrong but didn’t Brian say that hitting the apron would only stop them from doing sign and trades with Haywood’s contract?
I wonder if this is leverage by the Cavs in the Tristan extension talks.
He said mid-level exemption terminated also. I have not looked this up myself; but this is what he said. He also envisioned the possibility of using Haywood to pry loose … Roy Hibbert.
My bad. Poor wording on my part. You are correct.
My understanding is that if we go over the apron we couldn’t do a sign and trade (Roy Hibbert) but could trade for someone already signed (Larry Sanders). Is this correct?
I’d give either of them whatever it takes to keep them here. It’s not my money and as long as Gilbert sticks to his word about being on board with luxury tax, fans shouldn’t care what they’re paid.
I’d estimate that Tristan will get somewhere in that 4 years/45 million range (slightly less than Derek Favors). Andy will take a per-year pay cut; it will be a swan song deal that essentially thanks him for sticking with such garbage for a few years, blood clots and all.
Thompson means way more to the Cavs than per-36 numbers. Again, anyone who wants to quantify “value” on any of these guys over the coming months is running a fools errand. This is way beyond box scores and win shares.
“It’s not all about paying the bigs according to their market value. Locking up veterans, including Tristan, will be important to keep the Cavs from exceeding the cap so much that they hit the salary “apron” next year. Hitting the salary apron would prevent them by rule from trading Haywood’s valuable expiring contract and also prevent them from using their mid-level exemption in 2015-2016.”
Precisely.
Thanks Scott.
Any other team and I would consider this (like the Browns extending John Greco when Alex Mack wanted a deal). Not the Cavs, however.
“It’s not my money and as long as Gilbert sticks to his word about being on board with luxury tax, fans shouldn’t care what they’re paid.”
All due respect, this is pretty myopic and borderline ignorant. Costs get passed to the consumer. I have tickets, I am a fan. Let’s not perpetuate that there won’t be a cost to consumers. I presume you’re being carefree but ultimately costs become realized. And if you need to trade/swap down the road, the better deal you re-sign Andy, Dion or Tristan with, the better.
Cavs need to sign by 10/31 or he becomes a RFA. There is way more pressure on Cavs than for Tristan. Frankly, outside of injury, I cant see much pressure for him to sign,.
He still have the agent from last negotiation (Fegan, ? IIRC). That guy is hardline all the time.
The Faried deal should help set a near market for TT, as he is clearly lesser. I’d guess 4 x 10.5 for Tristan or 3 x 10.5 or 4 x 9.5 for Andy
/ not a salary capologist
It depends on the Cavs offer really. If the offer is near UFA market value, then there is pressure on Tristan to sign because the RFA market is usually dampened since the Cavs can just match whatever offer he gets and most poison-pill provisions are not legal anymore.
The big curveball in this mix is the new TV $$$…it could make for a strange market and I think is going to be the big reason we don’t see many RFA sign their contracts. More teams than normal may end up having significant money to sign (and overpay) people.
I agree. I will add this, the whole “Tristan shares an agent w/ Lebron” is way overblown IMO. The agent cannot collude to ease the negotiation. That would hurt their business long term.
This is a fair point. And obviously the more team-friendly, the better. I’m just stating that we can’t look at each player in a vacuum as some are wont to do. This is a unique situation and the salary “cap” means next to nothing at this stage as the Cavs are so far beyond it.
Yep. People should also be aware of when the Super Tax hits, that’s like a 4 x 1 tax hit. There’s being taxed and supertaxed.
You would give Andy 4 years and $38m?
yeah, the ’14-’15 Cavs are at the weirdest intersection of established stars, unproven talent, contracts of various lengths and an alpha athlete who wields more control over his org (and league) than maybe any athlete in history. Personally, I think Tristan’s skills are replaceable with a cheaper first rounder at the middle or end of a draft’s first round. But even if David Griffin agrees, imagine his list of concerns beyond that in this negotiation. He’s said he’s trying to make a family atmosphere, but the same alpha who wants certain players here has the power to have Griffin (or the coach) canned if it doesn’t work on the court.
I’d rather keep Thompson over Varejao simply due to age and durability. I’m not so excited, from a long term organizational viewpoint, at the prospects of resigning Varejao to a multi-year deal. Heck I’ve been hoping they add an additional big man just to lessen the minutes Varejao plays.
I understand Varejao’s following and I love how he plays but we have to be realistic in that he is an injury waiting to happen. If he’s signed for multiple years it feels more like a gift/appeasement more then anything.
I wouldn’t (see comment to Scott).
I wouldn’t either..what would you be willing to pay?
No clue on dollar amount I was strictly going by the years. Four years is a long time with his injury history.
Fair point. I would do a 2 year deal with a team option for year 3.
Obviously two years would be easier to take but personally I would have preferred to wait to see how the season or more of the season plays out. I will be shocked if Varejao plays a full season. I’m also interested in seeing what Griffin does with Thompson. I mentioned this situation a few times before the season. If it were me, business being business, I’d have waited on both guys because at the very least they could be tradable assets should the need arise for whatever reason. I guess even if they get new deals they would be tradable assets but not as much as they are right now. It’s a fine line indeed but Griffin seems to be up to the task. At least so far while everything is on paper and the games haven’t begun to count.
I think something like this is more of a dream then a reality but you never know if Indiana struggles they could decide to take a dive for a season that way they get a high draft pick, get George back and save a ton of money by ditching Hibbert. It will be interesting to see how things pan out. This is why as I said above I wouldn’t be looking to resign either Varejao or Thompson if I was Griffin. Not today.
Makes sense. Plus if we sign Tristan and Andy to extensions that would probably eliminate trading for a C using the Haywood contract. Can’t imagine us paying another C/PF big money if Andy is getting $9m, Tristan is getting $12m and Love is getting $20m.
I would tend to think you are right but who knows Griff might have something up his sleeve. People have made mention of the high wire work Griff will have to do with contracts and for me it starts with Thompson and Varejao. Varejao is tough because he’s the heart of this team and loved by the fans but like I said he never plays a full season which is torture because when he does he’s integral. After watching the eight exhibition games it looks like Varejao will play an even more important role under Blatt. Hopefully there will be plenty of blow outs and nights off which will only help extend Varejao’s season.
As far as Thompson goes I’m not sold on him. He showed glimpses two years ago then back slid last year. I do like him coming off the bench now though I feel like this is a role more suited to him. He looks to have worked out this summer and has definitely shown a lot more energy. Again, this is why I’d like to see some games played. We’ll see.
I would. There is a very small group of guys who can properly defend centers in the NBA. He’ll get 4 years easy. I realize all the risks, injuries, age, mileage, offensive subset, etc. Fegan is hardline. He’ll get it.
Wow..hope you’re wrong haha
Players all get 1 more year than logic dictates.