Mike Pettine’s Secret Weapon: Hand-written notes, history lessons
August 12, 2014Karlos Dansby appears to be as advertised: Training Camp Notes 08.12.14
August 12, 2014The Cleveland Browns finally had their chance to play someone other than their fellow teammates. What many fans are watching, however, is the battle within the team as Johnny Manziel and Brian Hoyer both look to claim the team’s starting quarterback role.
On Saturday, both quarterbacks played about a quarter-and-a-half—or three-to-four offensive drives. Each player had his share of ups and downs during their time under center with the team finishing drives throughout the game, only making four field goals. As we will throughout the rest of the preseason, here’s WFNY’s breakdown of the performances of both Brian Hoyer and Johnny Manziel in their first game in the battle for the starting quarterback job.
Brian Hoyer
Decision-Making
Brian Hoyer’s biggest strength is his quick and smart decision making, which he continued in the first game of the preseason. He had multiple throws where he read the play and went through multiple progressions before finding the open receiver. In MarQueis Gray’s big gain, Hoyer scanned the field from right to left before finding Gray open on the right sideline. He also had multiple passes where he had a three-step drop and immediately made the pass to one of his targets. His quick decisions did not allow the pass rush enough time to get to him. He played well in this area of the game, making good decisions on pretty much every pass play.
Grade: A
Pass Accuracy
Hoyer had a few throws where he struggled a little bit with his accuracy. Versus the Lions, he had four passes that were inaccurate causing incompletions. Two of this inaccurate passes were low, while the other two were high. So he had four bad throws of the 14 passes he made on Saturday. The other ten passes had good touch and accuracy resulting in catchable balls for the receiver. The other incompletions were not a result from an inaccurate pass. He had two passes that were dropped by the receiver (Miles Austin and MarQueis Gray). One pass was thrown away after the pass rush rushed him out of the pocket. The incompletion to Josh Gordon was all or nothing pass where he put it in the position where only Gordon could catch it.
Grade: C+
Technique and Pocket Presence
Hoyer was very good in his technique and pocket presence. His drop backs were technically sound, allowing him to get quickly into position to throw the ball. He had good feet in the pocket with the ability to get set and put his whole body into the throw. Hoyer got rid of the ball quickly when he needed to and did not cause the line to block for very long. He did have a throw where he did not square off to the receiver and so the ball came in low for an incompletion. Overall he was very good with technique and ability to maneuver in the pocket.
Grade: A
Overview
Brian Hoyer had a solid day, but could not get into the end zone during his time in the game. This is a huge point because the team did not have a touchdown against the Lions. He needs to get the offense into the end zone and finish the drive with six points rather than three. Overall, he looked pretty good for a player who has not seen live game action since early last season. His decision-making and presence in the pocket were very good on Saturday. He showed some of the things from last year that led the team to three straight victories. He was a bit wild with his accuracy, throwing high or low on four passes. Hoyer also was hurt by average play by some of the receivers, with two drops on his throws. He must be more consistent in his accuracy in order to win the starting quarterback job. All in all, Brian Hoyer had a good first preseason game for a player coming off a torn ACL last season.
Overall Grade: B
Johnny Manziel
Decision-Making
Johnny Manziel was up and down on his decision-making versus the Lions on Saturday. One of the problems he had was his inability to make the quick read consistently. On two plays he missed early open targets (Willie Snead and Ray Agnew) because of his second-guessing. He was looking towards the player and began to wind up to throw the ball, but he pulled it back instead of releasing the throw. Manziel also had trouble on the first read option play, where he kept the ball rather then hand it off to the running back Terrance West. He did make good reads downfield even with the constant pressure of the pass rush. On one play he was able to dump it off to running back Terrance West amidst of a collapsing pocket. This is definitely the part of his game that will improve over more time in the NFL. He just needs to get more comfortable with the playbook and the overall style of the NFL.
Grade: C+
Pass Accuracy
This was probably the strongest part of Manziel’s game against the Lions. He was very accurate with a very strong arm. He ripped passes hard and accurately to his target. On Saturday, he only had one inaccurate throw in which he overthrew Taylor Gabriel on the right sideline. The three other incompletions were more the fault of the receivers. Willie Snead dropped a slant pass through his hands and also couldn’t get his feet down on the sideline. The other incompletion came when Jonathan Krause did not see the pass coming at him and it hit him in the legs. Manziel’s accuracy was aided by the speed of his throw because it got to the receiver before the defender could react. He was very good at throwing to the player’s hands so he could have a chance to run after the catch. He was very accurate on Saturday versus the Lions.
Grade: A
Technique and Pocket Presence
Manziel had an okay day in terms of technique and pocket presence. The mediocre play of the second string offensive line often times hampered his play because of the constant pass rush throughout the game. He had a couple instances where he would get happy feet in the pocket and lose his technique. Manziel sometimes would use just his upper body to throw the pass without using his legs for more power. If he used his legs on the throws, he would get the consistent zip on his throws that he showed in several throws on Saturday. He did have a knack for the pass rush and knowing when to get out of the pocket or get rid of the ball. This is another thing he can improve on with more playing time in live action.
Grade: C+
Overview
Johnny Manziel had a very good first game of his NFL career. He showed off his unique talents on Saturday particularly his legs, accuracy, and arm strength. He was very dynamic with his legs, giving the offense a threat that it did not have last season. Two of the most impressive skills Manziel displayed on Saturday were his accuracy and arm strength. He put the ball in the right place for the receiver to make a play after the catch and also had an impressive zip to the passes that was very noticeable. This zip and accuracy can give him the ability to fit the ball into tight windows. He did show his lack of experience in the NFL in terms of his technique, pocket presence, and decision-making. These three skills can be improved and learned over more playing time against live action. Manziel will need to be more patient in the pocket and trust his arm more. He has the physical tools to be really good, but he still needs to sharpen up the mental part of the game and the intricate details like technique.
Overall Grade: B
Where We Stand
As you can see by my overall grades, I believe neither quarterback really stood above the other. They both played solid first games for the Browns and they both showed that they are capable to start the season as the number one quarterback.
Each player brings a different style to the Browns but they both are good leaders for the team. Hoyer is a mild mannered quarterback who makes smart decisions and has the experience of playing behind Patriots’ star quarterback Tom Brady. Manziel is a dynamic quarterback who has the physical tools in terms of his arm and legs that you want in a franchise quarterback and has a fighting passion to lead the team to victory. Hoyer is ahead of Manziel in terms of understanding the playbook and playing against an NFL level defense. But I believe Manziel has made up the ground because of his unique playing skills to run and pass.
I believe it will come down to the performances at practice this week and most importantly during the Browns’ Monday Night Football game next week. It could be one of the most watched preseason games in recent history solely because of this battle.
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(Photo by: Joshua Gunter/ The Plain Dealer)
16 Comments
By grading out even and having more accuracy and mobility, I think Manziel is taking the lead. Hoyer had to prove that he is still well ahead of a rookie and he is not doing so. It is a bit of a shame for him considering how hard he has worked in his career and coming back form his ACL injury, but it is good for Brown’s fans if Manziel proves to be too good to keep on the bench.
This is the best analysis of the first preseason performances I’ve seen to date. I agree with your overall grade on both and for the first game of the season I would still choose veteran experience (albeit limited) and, “Brian Hoyer’s biggest strength is his quick and smart decision making…making good decisions on pretty much every pass play” to go into Pitt. I think the over/under throws were more first game amperage more than an inherent flaw in Hoyer’s game but time should quickly tell.
Accuracy is way less important than decision making and Hoyer’s bad passes were early. He settled down and did well. Manziel has to CLEARLY beat hoyer to get the start just based on experience alone. Which it OK, because it’s clear that Manziel can learn and get better. This is a great problem to have.
JFF is sexy. I get it. But, I ultimately believe it’s probably better to play Hoyer who is more apt (for the moment) at reading defenses and going through his progressions.
I don’t remember overthrows like that last year from Hoyer. Maybe just shaking the rust off? Stay tuned…
they are both important and the speed that the ball gets to it’s target is also important as it allows for much less time to react.
I also, obviously, disagree that Manziel has to clearly beat Hoyer. I believe just the opposite. A tie goes to the rookie. If they are already tied, then the rookie has more room to grow than the veteran, so he should be given every opportunity to grow. Otherwise, you are just wasting time.
Disagree with part of your Johnny analysis. I did not see him going through progressions much. Snead had a lousy game, but that sideline pass was late – even Gordon would have had trouble getting his feet down – and it was because Johnny waited for the receiver to break open.
Preseason has vanilla defenses. Hoyer knows how to read complex defenses. If it looks even in preseason you don’t give it to Johnny. If he’s not clearly prepared to go through progressions and throw on time a Dick LeBeau defense will mince him, maybe even hurt him.
Upticks for your 2nd paragraph.
Hoyer has shown (albeit in just a few games) that he can read and beat real, actual NFL defenses, not vanilla “don’t show your cards, don’t get yourself hurt” preseason defenses. This can’t be stressed enough. Can’t be said enough – Brandon Weeden had a career 99.9 QB rating in 2013 preseason football. In 2014, he’s up to 111.6.
I’m glad Manziel is doing well and showing some physical skills, but preseason football is a very poor indicator for the real stuff a QB needs to do to succeed in the league.
yup. Agree entirely. I think JFF will get there, but Hoyer has a 6-year head start on these things.
I actually think Snead was in bounds, and the point about that ball being late applies just as well to Hoyer’s 30-yard drop that he tried to float in when there was no one to throw over. That ball should still be caught 8 times out of 10, but a little more oomph keeps the sideline out of play and makes that an easier catch.
That said, I think JFF killed 2 drives with hesitation on triggering the read. This is actually the ding on him from college tape too, that maybe because of his big play ability he sometimes refuses to take what’s there. It’s totally understandable, but if he’s hesitating in preseason it will probably be worse in regular action.
interesting grading and averaging. JM always grades out different than most with the pocket presence because he is a mixture of mobility and pocket. People misread his movement as happy feet. Where is the grade on mobility?
that makes no sense…so if my decisions are excellent put my pass is so inaccurate that it doesn’t make it to the player what good did it do to have had an excellent decision.
Equally important…decisions and accuracy = winning.
What experience are you talking about his 3-4 starts? Or his many years with Brady?
“He had multiple throws where he read the play and went through multiple progressions before finding the open receiver. In MarQueis Gray’s big gain, Hoyer scanned the field from right to left before finding Gray open on the right sideline.”
Appreciate you noticing this, Joe. I was seeing a lot of people refer to this as “Hoyer looked off the safety, then threw to Gray for a big gain.” That’s not what happened, he just went through his progressions, found the open man, and hit him. I don’t want to hear a lot of talk about the importance of “looking off the safety” again this year… I thought we had already established that even the best quarterbacks (Manning and Brady for example) don’t do this very much.
Agree on Snead, I saw the same thing. Got down a full foot and a toe-tap in bounds. You could see the rubber pellets coming up off the ground on the toe tap.
I agree that decision making is more important than accuracy. For context
http://youtu.be/KaPuSLRQR8Q
My guess: Hoyer starts the season, with the understanding that Manziel takes over soon after Hoyer moves to another team or calls it a career.
Some apprenticeship would do wonders to teach Manziel the kinds of decision-making that Hoyer has, and curb his ego enough so he can learn to be better at the NFL game. After all, that worked well for Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers, why wouldn’t it work for Manziel?
soon after Hoyer calls it a career? he’s 28yo. if he’s successful enough to fend off other quarterbacks, then he’ll be playing for awhile.