T.J. Ward talks about Denver’s winning culture vs. Cleveland experience
July 2, 2014Gordon Hayward is not a fan of Cleveland
July 2, 2014Not only are the Cleveland Cavaliers extremely interested in restricted free agent Gordon Hayward, it appears they could be gearing towards offering the swingman a maximum contract.
Yahoo! Sports’ Adrian Wojnarowski reports that Hayward is in Cleveland on Wednesday and that an offer sheet could be forthcoming. ESPN.com’s Brian Windhorst followed up this report with additional news of the Cavs potentially offering Hayward a maximum offer sheet which would be roughly $14 million per year for at least three seasons. The Portland Trailblazers famously signed Roy Hibbert to a max four-year, $58 million offer in 2013 before it was matched by the Indiana Pacers.
Despite his efficiency being down due to a lack of help, Hayward averaged a solid 16.2 points, 1.1 threes, 5.1 rebounds, 5.2 assists and 1.4 steals last season. The Suns have also been eager to give him an offer sheet, and the Celtics had expressed interest before agreeing to terms with Avery Bradley. The Jazz, however, have vowed to match offers for their 24-year-old restricted free agent.
86 Comments
The Jazz will match, but at least the Cavs will make them pay. On the off chance the Cavs get Hayward, that would be awesome.
What a great move. Long are the days of sitting on our hands when the Cavs sat on their hands waiting for a certain someone to come back and play the 3. I’d imagine a sign and trade with Utah is likely as well, but Utah will probably match.
Not the same old Cavs, just a different version of the “bad NBA franchise”.
Max contracts to non-max players like Irving and Hayward is not a recipe for success.
If you want to be a player in FA, then you’re going to be overpaying. If the Cavs don’t make this move then they’re going to be signing garbage like Earl Clark or over paying on a smaller scale to somebody like Jarret Jack.
Am I the only one who thinks Heyward isn’t anywhere close to a max player? 16 points on 41% shooting (30%) from 3 doesn’t look like anything near a max player to me. If they’re going to overpay a restricted free agent, might as well throw money Parsons’ way. He’s a much better player than Heyward, and put up better numbers despite playing with two ballhogs.
Hayward, yes, but Irving is absolutely a max player. He’s 22, insanely talented, has a ridiculous handle, and has shown the ability to completely take over games. He needs to work on his defense and his leadership, but, again, he’s 22.
We would really, really have to believe that his shooting woes last year were merely a blip. If that became the norm, then it would haunt us. If Gordon gets back on the Batum-track, then it wouldn’t kill us, but it would not be a deal either.
This is just a little shout out by Dan Gilbert to the man who sold him his shares in the team. Ok, Jazz, this should sound familiar: watch him walk, or match it and choke on him.
Feel better now, Gordon?
I guess my bigger problem is if you want to contend in the NBA from a small market, you can’t think you can fix your problems on the FA market. It’s not just overpaying for FAs, it’s the thinking that there’s a quick fix for this roster.
“He needs to work on his defense and his leadership”
Talk about an understatement.
I discussed this with Andrew yesterday. I agree that he’s got the tools to be possibly become a max player, and I’m on board with taking the risk that he puts it all together in the next six years solely because we have a guy who might speed up the rebuilding process at an incredible rate in Wiggins. But when you take the sum of all he contributes on games that count in the standings, he’s not worth a max deal yet.
The Cavs have been building through the draft and and negotiating small FA contracts since 2010 and it’s gotten us here. I think you need to take a chance to get really good, really quick. What good does the cap room do if you don’t use it?
One of my concerns (aside from him actually being worth a max) is that if we make this offer, then we have to wait several days before we can make any more big moves in FA. If the Jazz match in three days, as expected, during that time we could miss out on a chance to sign other impact FA’s.
Yes, the Cavs have really sucked at projecting talent. I don’t see how that’s a signal that they’re ready to jump in the deep end of the FA pool.
What else would they do with the cap space they’ve been building for years?
resigning Irving is not overpaying for FA.
I know you have this unnatural hatred for Kyrie, but the kid is a legitimate All-Star. Those types of players get that sort of deal.
Look for good values on the FA market and in trades. Pray like hell that Wiggins and Irving eventually become max worthy players, and sooner rather than later.
Yuh-huh. #greatconversation
#sarcastichashtags #betterthandiscussion
You can just say, adopt the San Antonio model Steve. They have a HOF coach, HOF owner and 2 current HOF players (Parker and Duncan). You don’t just decide to do that and assume it will happen. You clear space and go for the big move. Hayword is young and would excel as a 3rd option. Think about basketball, not dollars and cents.
There’s no discussion here. You’re simply saying that you think I’m wrong without defending your point. Yeah, I’m being a dismissive jerk, but there’s plenty of good conversation about Irving extension all over this site, but it’s not right here right now.
Yeah, I’m with you. This kyrie contract has me very nervous long term. Everyone in this city gets overly excited when we sign someone, but the majority of these mega contracts end up being terrible in the long run. Not to mention that Kyrie, statistically, isn’t worth max money at the present moment.
Now we are goin to commit $150 million to Kyrie and Gordon Hayward? Please no.
I’m with you. I’ll be the first to admit I haven’t seen him play much, but his stats are screaming above average/good small forward. Am I missing something? Is this the only way we can attact free agents?
#stillmorefun
No, you’re 100% correct. The problem is that in this city, when we sign someone, everyone gets overly excited at the shiny new toy. However, 90% of the time a FA signs a big new contract and goes to a new city, he doesn’t live up to his contract. This looks like a disaster of Larry Hughes-ian proportions.
I’m not saying you can just assume it will happen. If it wasn’t clear, my timeline takes years, because that’s what it takes for a small market to build a legit contender.
If Irving and Wiggins turn into superstar talents that can get this team to mid-50s wins next year, I’ll eat my hat. I’ll be ecstatic about it and tell you it tastes delicious though.
The Spurs got where they are with only one real big move. Otherwise, they’ve generally just kept hitting on those draft picks and under-the-radar moves. They aren’t a team that thinks money burning a hole in their pocket is a problem.
And you have to think about dollars and cents too. From a basketball perspective, Hayward is a meh move. From a dollars and cents move, it’s a terrible decision. The dollars and cents weighs more than the basketball here.
If they do pursue Hayward and sign him it’ll be interesting to see what this means for Dion Waiters. I would have to believe Wiggins would be playing SG which might mean Waiters becomes the sixth man he should have always been. Maybe.
Fantastic. If at any point you want to respond to my points or defend yours, I’m all ears. If not, I guess this is where we part ways.
According to Google, there are fewer than 20 max contract players. Exactly zero of them had a resume nearly as pedestrian as Hayward’s. Even among those who were more heralded several (Rudy Gay, Eric Gordon), have turned out to be overpaid. How can the Cavs hope to compete when they’re paying max money to someone who in a best case scenario doesn’t even project as an all-star?
“I’m not saying you can just assume it will happen. If it wasn’t clear, my timeline takes years, because that’s what it takes for a small market to build a legit contender.”
IT’S BEEN 4 %$#@*&^ YEARS!
“If Irving and Wiggins turn into superstar talents that can get this team to mid-50s wins next year, I’ll eat my hat. I’ll be ecstatic about it and tell you it tastes delicious though.”
They can’t, that’s why you sign an excellent, young 3rd weapon.
“And you have to think about dollars and cents too. From a basketball perspective, Hayward is a meh move.”
Hayward is great when he’s not depended upon to to be the firsts coring option.
I heard someone on the radio (may have been Bud Shaw) saying that Irving isn’t necessarily a max player, but for a market like Cleveland, he is. I think I agree with him
14 million per for Gordon Hayward? thats just crazy pills. He a “shooter” who hit 30 percent from three in a contract year. No thank you.
SIGN GREG MONROE
there may have been less than 20 players on a true max contract, but there were 30 players at $13.5mil or more (veteran players can get to that mark w/o being on a max). that includes guys like Omar Asik, Jeremy Lin, Carlos Boozer, and David Lee among the guys who do not deserve that much $$$ for their play. and, that number is expected to rise as the cap is expected to rise.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm
I understand where you are coming from (especially when teams like SA & Miami may have better players for less annually – it makes the math tough). But, I also at least understand the Cavs angle. If we are going to make a move, we need to get a talent infusion at a few key spots. How are we going to do that?
I still think Monroe is a better bet for a contract, but do like Hayward overall.
no. you are not. I’m kinda flabbergasted there’s so much support for it on this board. I agree with you on Parsons. i want them to get Monroe away from Detroit, but if the team feels a wing is a better use of free agent money, then Chandler Parsons, please and thank you.
I would prefer Greg Monroe as well. I forget who it was (Nate Silver?) who had all the math on max players, but he didn’t include age (which is an important factor).
Even in his incomplete analysis, Irving was still almost a max player. Just under whatever line was set, IIRC.
I was just going to type “larry hughes” and saw you got there first. This just seems like a disaster if it happens.
Gordon can both shoot and play defense though. Hughes could play defense when he bothered to (and was fantastic covering PGs until he decided he didn’t want to), but he was a transition-only guy put into a half-court system.
they are similar players. i’d side a bit on Gordon, but not by much.
either is an overpay at $14mil, but sometimes those are the breaks.
I am with you on Monroe. At worst, it forces Detroit’s hand on him. And, we can tell Gordon that if Detroit matches, we’ll sign him next. Someone else does it, then oh well.
Good. Either way, we have to wait some time. Hopefully, Gordon is willing to wait until we at least get Detroit to overpay on Monroe.
“has a ridiculous handle”
….good, he’s gonna need that in the new NBA playoff system which has been replaced by an AND 1 tournament.
we are going in that direction, no?
Yes and no, it’s more of a hybrid WWE/Globetrotter league with a dash of And 1 for flavor.
Thanks to @ClevTA on Twitter, we have this handy link where Hayward says Cleveland is his least favorite NBA city.:
http://jazzfanatical.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/bits-from-practice-and-interviews-225/
All Im saying is if he doesnt want to be here, then we shouldnt hope gobs of money will make him happy.
“Brian Windhorst followed up this report”
This should have been everyone’s tip off that the “max deal” was ludicrous.
Windy is doing EVERYTHING he can to eat up the Cavs cap space for them right now.
please oh please oh please don’t send me back to Cleveland.
“IT’S BEEN 4 %$#@*&^ YEARS!”
Sunk costs. We’re still years away from building a team that can contend. Pretending that the last four years matter anymore will only cause you more problems.
“They can’t, that’s why you sign an excellent, young 3rd weapon.”
If you can find an excellent option, I’m all ears. Hayward, and his career .089 WS/48 is not one. And more importantly, there are NBA seasons after this one. Trying to turn a 30 win team into a contender over night is a fool’s errand.
Thanks, Chad
mocked city, weather, and fans. whoops.
i guess if you are willing to pay a guy $12-14mil/year, then it helps with his perception of things.
What does Telich think is going to be good enough to convince the the Jazz not to match? It’s going to have to be close enough to the max to make the difference near meaningless, right?
perhaps he can stay in Miami and finally expose those stories he promised when LeBron signs with the Lakers.
just kidding, Kobe is toxic to the star players and the new Buss is an idiot for paying him so much.