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February 28, 2014It’s not going away. I’m speaking of the conversation about Chief Wahoo. We’ve talked about it here. It’s been talked about many other places as well. It’s not going to go away until the Chief goes away for good. Love it or hate it, that seems to be the inevitable truth. Now the Cleveland Plain Dealer’s editorial board has joined the chorus in their editorial.
But Americans have a long history of giving up on once-acceptable traditions when they come to realize the consequences — as unintended as they may be — of keeping them going.
The bottom line is that having Wahoo on the roster won’t provide the team with a right-handed power hitter, a shutdown closer or a third baseman who can hit. Wahoo contributes nothing to the performance of the Indians on the field, and makes the team seem hopelessly backward in the eyes of the world.
It’s not unlike a lot of things that have been discussed ad nauseum right here on WFNY. It seems that there will never be wholesale agreement on the topic, but my current position is one of pragmatism even more than anything else. We know enough about the cultural shifts in the country over time to unequivocally know that the Chief won’t last forever. Oddly enough, as much as Chief Wahoo offends or even de-humanizes people, it serves as a catalyst for Cleveland and its fans to stand in the line of fire.
My plea is for it to end, if for no other reason, than to stop the shots being fired at Cleveland from judgmental, scornful outsiders. Bending to outside pressure isn’t a lot of fun, but we know how this thing is going to end. Might as well hit the fast forward button. I’d like to just talk about baseball again. There’s only one way to do that.
Andrew at WFNY discussed the topic most recently in October. Make sure you read his post.
96 Comments
Though I agree with the paper’s stance, it’s kind of hilarious (and typical) how late to the party the PD is on this (and other things). Oh well.
“My plea is for it to end, if for no other reason, than to stop the shots being fired at Cleveland from judgmental, scornful outsiders.”
As long as we can fire shots at them by calling them judgmental and scornful, amirite? Also, what about us insiders who are firing the shots?
If we do something because we’re sick of being called out instead of because it’s actually the right thing to do, have we actually accomplished anything? Even with Chief Wahoo gone, those idiots who paint their faces red and do war whoops are still going to show up (but only for the playoffs, that’s how you know they are the real fans), and prejudices against the American Indian population will still go on.
Welp, so much for a calm and amicable Friday among the WFNY commentariat.
The PD should be more concerned about improving the paper, especially their sports section.
CLEVELAND IS RACIST….
DRAFT JOHNNY FOOTBALL…..
COLT DIDN’T GET A FAIR CHANCE……
WE SHOULD HAVE SIGNED JIMENEZ…….
LOUD NOIZEZ!!!!
What if Wahoo wasn’t a racist caricature? He’s kind of stale, isn’t he? Other teams have changed their logos. The tampa Bay Bucaneers, for example. I, personally don’t like Wahoo. If he were introduced today, there would be no way. But, the Wahoo lovers need to calm down. It’s just a logo. It’s a bygone, Get over it.
Calling people judgmental and scornful is firing shots? I fire with an acidic tongue I guess.
The only thing the PD cares about IS its sports section.
So this means the PD won’t publish pictures with the Chief in it or mention him by name, right?
I thought I couldn’t love this comment more, but then you went and threw in a shot about poor attendance.
It is what it is Craig. Shots are being fired on all sides, some more rude than others. I think it’s unfair to only call out one side.
Didn’t seem to go that far, and I certainly wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for that.
Now that’s scary!
I feel like the PD should be most concerned with covering local Cleveland news, like this controversy. What the hell are you talking about? Should all the articles just be about improving the paper?
Ah, the old “strong words, do nothing” method of protest.
#sadbuttrue
It SHOULD be, but it’s not (nor has it been for quite some time). Local news doesn’t equal the clicks Advance media craves.
Saying that an obviously offensive cartoon is offensive? Outsiders speak with an acidic tongue I guess.
DOLANS IZ CHEEP…
TRIBE ATTENDANCE IS TOO LOW…
LEBRON!!!…
HOLMGRUM!!!…
Put all of that in Comic Sans and I think we’ve about covered it.
I don’t understand your argument here. Do you know how hard it would be to cover one of the most popular features in Cleveland, using only pictures that don’t show a symbol that’s put on uniforms and all over the stadium? It’s part of the story, so they’re going to show it. A newspaper that shows a horrifying picture of what war looks like doesn’t automatically condone war because they printed it. Featuring a muscular Chief Wahoo on the front page to show the Indians are “strong this year” or something is one thing, but I think it’s a little ridiculous to expect them to boycott the image entirely. It’s part of the story, so it should be featured.
When a paper shows a picture of war, it is because there is a story about war. The image is in itself the story. In the same vein, if the PD thinks Wahoo really is a racist image then they should do their
best to avoid publishing it unless that image is in itself the story. Yes, it would be difficult to do, but that’s the cost of having convictions and taking a stand.
I didn’t fire any shots, except where you pretend that I did.
Your tone and stance drive me crazy though. It seems more consumed with being right – calling others idiots is VERY helpful – than accomplishing a goal. It would be nice to have everyone agree on all the details surrounding this issue, but I’d rather make progress. I find your stance to be one that causes others to dig in and resist inevitable change.
Amirite?
The Plain Dealer’s botched moves of reducing delivery and deep cuts to their staff have rendered it an obselete voice in this town to the vast sum of non-geriatrics. This seems nothing more than a belated attention grab. I hate to say it but they are no longer a voice for me or most I know. This saddens me and there are still some good papers, they just arent one. Poorly managed, poorly written.
“Saying that an obviously offensive cartoon is offensive?”
I never said this at all. Not once.
The obseleteness of the PD, and many newspapers for that matter, happened well before the reduced delivery and staff cuts. It’s a last-gasp effort to retain profitability.
Honestly, it’s not like we have a storied history with the name or logo. A long history, yes, but not a storied one. I don’t have the problem with Chief Wahoo that many people do, but have grown weary of the debate. There are far more important things to do than debate a cartoon (unless it’s Bugs vs. Mickey).
If you truly want to change the name though, commenting I guess could do something (unlikely though), but here are some actual steps if you want to enhance the change:
(1) Only buy items without the Chief. There are plenty for sale. But, you need to organize and demonstrate that people are boycotting Chief Wahoo.
(2) This is harder, but you can even try to boycott the Indians name too. Hats with the block C work but there are precious few shirts available.
(3) Organize days at the ballpark. Buy tickets in bulk (if possible). Show great support for the team and keep it very civil (positive signs: We love our baseball team, just not the logo. Etc.).
(4) Someone show the Dolans how much $$$ they will generate from creating a new logo.
(5) Someone convince the company that owns the Bob Feller design to sell the copyright to the team.
Just because one editor thinks this way about the logo does not mean everyone does or the PD as a whole does. Much like how WFNY editors do not all agree on the topic and the Chief is still published here.
I thought you were saying that they shouldn’t even show it if they’re doing a story about the debate about it. Like literally boycott it entirely and act like it doesn’t exist (which I find to be unrealistic). Yeah, any Indians feature should have the block C graphic, but of course they shouldn’t blur it on the uniform in pictures or anything. That’s insane. And if they’re doing a story about how racist it is, then yeah, they should totally feature it.
“strong words do nothing” is the PD’s Native Americ…..
no. too easy.
True. My catty little comment was more of a backhanded way of pointing out that the PD (or at least the editorial board) are making some headlines and trying to look progressive but in reality business will most likely continue on as usual. They’ll publish pics of Wahoo, casually mention him in articles, feature ads of him on their site, etc. If they were committed and really thought Wahoo was racist, I think they’d do more.
Then you should be more specific about who is “judgmental and scornful.” Because the way it’s written seems like you’re generalizing that all people calling for the symbol to change are that.
And I’m also asking what is so acidic from the people who want it changed, that they deserve to be called that? I don’t understand how people who find this symbol offensive are scornful and judgmental. They clearly have a strong argument. I’m sorry Craig, but to write a post saying “just change the symbol because you’re tired of hearing about it” is just lazy.
Calling people judgmental and scornful is a shot fired. As someone who fires plenty of shots, and doesn’t shy away from that fact, I can spot shots fired with the best of them.
I do find it funny that my tone and stance drive you crazy while you almost worship at the alter of the Raab (that’s a shot fired, as you seem to still need that distinction cleared up). We both are quite obstinate and will argue our opinions well past the point that is necessary because we too frequently think the other guy just can’t figure it out. I’ve made an effort to be more civil, but still believe that a good argument forces the better points to the top while rooting out the incorrect ones. This isn’t first grade, where everyone gets patted on the head for participating. There are points that are right, and some that need to be challenged.
And when it comes to the matter of Wahoo, many have dug in and resisted inevitable change long before they’ve heard me make my case about the matter. If they need to use me as their crutch, they were never going to change anyway. They’re just grasping at straws.
I’ve made the effort on #1 and 2, it should be fairly easy for many, and love the Feller idea.
But I’m not sure if they will make more money with Wahoo gone, which I think is the big reason he isn’t gone already. There is going to be an immediate backlash among the fanbase, something the team really can’t afford to lose any more of.
Also, I think if you go no-Wahoo, you really can’t go back. If they remove him, but them bring him back on throwback nights, it looks like you don’t care about the topic, but just want to make money. As I said above, I’d bet that’s actually the case, but I don’t think you can make it so obvious to the public.
I do not buy or wear ANY Indians gear. And I refuse to give the Dolans a dime. I agree that a bigger step would be to start organizing. That said, I do think that engaging in friendly, rational debate with people in-person and online can be a pretty effective agent for change as well.
that’s part of my point. you can change logos without stating you are catering to the debate or caring about the topic. you can just say that after 70 years of not winning a championship with the Indians name and the entire existance of the current Chief Wahoo that it was time for a rebranding. You care about the history of the team and he will continue to be apart of things, but we needed a fresh start. And, what team more than us needs a fresh start (ok, so the Royals, Cubs, etc.).
that allows the fans who care about the Chief to still be able to buy him through the teamstore and quiets most people who are against him.
and, I have a very hard time believing that there wouldn’t be MORE merchandise sales if there was a new logo.
I get it, but would have to believe that any redesign would be seen as a Wahoo removal. I’m sure you can skirt around that idea in a press conference, but guess the fans would see it for what it is.
At this point, that ship has sailed. Changing the logo will undoubtedly be seen as capitulating to the demands of the critics.
the thing about the organizing is that I really think change would move quicker if things were done in a positive manner and I have some doubts about whether that would actually happen.
how it is seen and how it is spun are two different things. I agree many/most will see it that way, but they can do what they want with the spin and after-effects.
the only reason the PD writes about anything is to get people to buy papers and click on their links. they know that this topic will do it, so I highly suspect that even if NO editors believed it, one would write the viewpoint to get those clicks/papers-bought.
If the Indians organization has proven anything over the years it’s that they are TERRIBLE at communicating their message to the public.
It’s definitely a topic that’s very polarizing. A lot of passion on both sides so even if you start out as a lukewarm moderate who doesn’t care that much, you end up getting forced to choose a side.
Not sure who you’re referring to, but the paper could improve period. I was pointing out one section.
I’m judgmental and scornful of the Westboro Baptist Church. Did I just fire a shot at myself?
This town already hates Larry Dolan with a passion, he doesnt have the b@lls to ditch Wahoo. Whether you love it, or hate it or you’re somewhere in between, I still dont think the Chief is going anywhere. Not for a long time.
Just change it all to the Cleveland Spiders already and be done with it. Keep the colors, keep the C, keep the font. Get rid of the Chief and write “Spiders” on the front of the jerseys. Sick of this debate.
I’d say we’re getting there, but the argument has already devolved into a back and forth of sarcastic ad hominems.
I agree. They’re at a place where 92 wins gets them 2nd to last attendance numbers. If the team were ever to relocate, that would make it go away. That, or the league or government forcing their hand. That actually would be the best case scenario in my opinion. Dolan wouldn’t be the bad guy and it might actually rouse some local support against The Evil Commish or That Meddling Government.
Not referring to anyone. The PD’s focus should be on local Cleveland news, but it’s simply not, as it doesn’t give Advance the clicks they crave for its “digital-first” initiative. Simply put, they don’t care about the quality, if it gets them the clicks (more clicks presumably means more ad revenue).
Oops, I meant Terry