While We’re Waiting… What a crappy sports weekend
December 9, 2013Browns screw job, hate watching The Sound of Music, Eric Wedge’s Mariners – JONCAST – WFNY Podcast – 2013-12-08
December 9, 2013Who caught your eye? Did someone stand out? Who blew it? That’s what were interested in this morning. Winners and losers.
WINNER: Josh Gordon. Just because it’s obvious doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be brought up. Seven catches for 151 yards and a TD. It was Gordon’s seventh 100 yard receiving game of the year. He set an NFL record for receiving yards in a four game span with 774. He is the first Browns WR ever with four straight games over 100 yards. Oh, he also led the team in rushing yards today with 34 on one carry. McGahee had 14 carries for 33 yards.
WINNER: Jordan Cameron. Cameron was due for a big day, and he came through with nine catches for 121 yards and a touchdown.
WINNER: Jason Campbell. Big time performance by Campbell. Even though Cameron and Gordon had big days, Campbell distributed the ball to nine different receivers. He threw for 391 yards and didn’t turn the ball over. He also extended some drives with his legs. Don’t mistake this ‘good game’ as an endorsement of Campbell for a spot next year. Just recognizing a good performance.
LOSER: Common sense. When fans can’t see a routine pass play unfold and not know if there was interference, if it was an actual catch, or whether the tackle was ‘clean’ or not then there are problems. That’s where we are at with the NFL right now.
WINNER: Paul Kruger. Under some scrutiny the past couple of weeks, Kruger had a good game against New England recording a pair of sacks and a forced fumble.
LOSER: Pass defense. There were some bad calls yes, but the Browns surrendered over 300 yards passing in the second half.
LOSER: Special Teams. Everything is irrelevant if they recover the onside kick.
66 Comments
Dittoes on the Common Sense thing.
LOSER: Chud’s spin. It’s getting old. Yesterday he said he was “proud of the way they played.” Seriously? Proud of that choke? Anybody who is proud of that gag job tolerates losing. That’s a loser mentality.
I’m weary of his touchy-feely Pollyanna rationalizations for blowing winnable games. With all the wonderful “learning experiences” we’ve had this year, you’d think we’d be unstoppable geniuses by now.
LOSER: the NFL. For two reasons. They need to sort out this receiver-based penalties situation. First, ACL tears are up by 10 from last season (and the season isn’t over) and by more than 20 from the season before that. This is the natural response to disallowing players to hit high. Second, that interference call was garbage. Most interference calls are garbage. They determine far too many games.
LOSER: The offensive line. These guys simply cannot run block. It isn’t that old man willis is too old, or that Obie isn’t good. There simply aren’t any holes. The patriots are about the worst run defense in the NFL, so this shouldn’t have been the case.
WINNER: Most everything else. I know people don’t like “Moral Victories” but this is one. First, the Browns played pretty damn well, and the entire world recognizes the refs stole this game from them. Second, wins are meaningless right now. So the Browns got a “win” without ruining their draft position.
This ^
re: the o-line – maybe Alex Mack isn’t as good as his rep and the FO is aware of that, which is why they aren’t making an effort to sign him.
re: injuries – No matter what anyone says, the future of the NFL is really cloudy. It’s only a matter of time before a guy dies on the field…
Exactly! At some point the lessons learned need to turn in to wins.
Loser: Steeler fans.
Winner: Josh Gordon. I’m running out of superlatives to describe this guy. That 80 yard TD was just a stunning display of speed and athleticism that left my jaw on the floor. “Flash” Gordon, indeed. It’s incredible watching a guy just out muscle and run away from one of the best CB’s in the game. I don’t know if this franchise has EVER had a WR with the kind of elite level talent that Gordon possesses. EVER. He is truly something special and an absolute treat to watch. And he’s only 22. I have a friend who is a Bengals fan who laughs at me when I tell him I wouldn’t trade Gordon for AJ Green straight up. After the last 4 weeks, I feel totally vindicated.
Winner: Campbell. Stepped up big time and did everything he could to win that game. It’s a shame he can’t seem to do that consistently.
Winner: Cameron. Welcome back, elite TE. Add another WR to the Gordon/Cameron dynamic duo and we’re going to be a lot of fun to watch the next few years.
Loser: Prevent defense. Hate it with a passion.
Loser: the Patriots. Because they should have lost, and even if they won’t admit it, they have to know that they totally got away with one.
Loser: the integrity of the game. I very rarely buy into the “blame the officals” talk after a questionable call impacts a game. But the multitude of calls (and no-calls) yesterday just leaves me at a loss for words. Nobody wants to believe that officials are trying to sway a game one way or the other, but it’s pretty much impossible to defend what happened in the final minutes yesterday. Everyone associated with the Browns has every right to be totally pissed.
coach speak is coach speak. I’d rather Chud continue to use coach-isms than provide a Denny Green-Jim Mora moment.
Interference needs to be 15 yards and not a spot foul. Even in the end zone. Throwing a 40 yard jump ball into the end zone and trying to draw interference so you can get the ball on the 1 should not be an option. It gives too much power to the officials.
The current rule assumes that the WR will catch the ball every time if not interfered with. The Pats WR wasn’t catching that ball yesterday, regardless of coverage. He was overthrown by 2-3 yards. But it ended up basically giving the Pats the game.
Upticked because it made me laugh.
Loser: the refs. I have thoughts in the back of my head about the possibility of the refs being bribed, but with no proof I can’t accuse them of such.
Winner: Chud and his coaching staff. There is enough evidence to show that Joe Banner made the right coaching decision. Once the Browns collective provides Chud with the right players in key positions, this team will be deadly.
Winner: Cavs. Well they did win on Saturday. So the weekend wasn’t a total loss.
You know the saying about how any so-and-so can kick down a barn…
I’m not necessarily saying that applies here, but I’d ask what you to proffer an alternative approach–tenor / attitude, emotion, diction / content, etc.
My guess is, no matter your response, there’d be very good reasons not to take that approach either. I get the criticism, but it’s not like there’s a right and a wrong here.
Personally, I think Chud is handling a confusing season with aplomb, and he and TIto are the only coaches in a long time that I can remember trusting to individualize and empathize with their players in any meaningful way and approach this type of communication in a way that is best for their guys.
I don’t think Chud’s spin is getting old…losing might old, but I like his approach (mostly) to date.
Biggest indictment of our O-line’s run blocking ability is Bobby Rainey’s game against the Bills yesterday. We’ve had issues running the ball all year and are short on RB talent, cut Rainey, and he’s putting up solid numbers in Tampa Bay – 127 yards and TD yesterday, 5.8 yards a carry.
Back when there was talk of trading Gordon, some people (I forget who) were talking about how WRs were “interchangeable” or “fungible.”
I’d like to see what they’re opinions are now that Gordon is single-handedly changing the complexion of any game he plays in.
good point!
Obviously I’m not saying that Chud has to go nuts and I know his blather is for public consumption, but it’s annoying. Also, that attitude carries over into the locker room. He sounds like he is way too accepting of defeat. After every loss, he sounds like all the players should get a “PARTICIPANT” trophy because golly, they all tried so gosh darn hard.
He needs to instill a little fear of his wrath. I don’t think you’d ever see Mike Tomlin pulling a Dr. Phil act like that after a loss.
WINNER: Joe Banner and Co. I can’t point to a single bad move they’ve made, and the moves they didn’t make that people question I’ve yet to hear a really good alternative to. The fact that this group could go into Foxboro against this Pats team and with Jason Campbell at QB absolutely slice up the Patriots’ D, dominate the Patriots’ O for over a half, and that the Pats needed serious ref help to pull out the game is really incredible. Sure, Tom Brady had a great second half. That’s what great coaches and QBs do after they see what you’ve shown them in the first half, make adjustments – and even then they needed help to beat the Browns. This was a great job all around.
LOSER: The NFL. Between the unintended consequences of how guys need to tackle (goodbye ACLs!) and the absolutely inconsistent and often horrid refereeing in some games (hello, home teams/stars, enjoy your stay), the NFL has some serious issues it needs to work out. Define PI better or en
I’m in a sour mood after the weekend, so I’ll try to be more positive by only listing winners today:
Winner: Gordon (again). Belichick is best at taking out your best weapon and Talib has been a very good CB this year. Well, 185 yards later, I don’t think he took Gordon out of this game. Also, the postseason quotes don’t sound cheerful that he is now the leading WR in the NFL (despite missing 2 games), so he gets bonus points.
Winner: Campbell. Fantastic game after a sluggish start. He (and Hoyer) are the prototypical backup QBs that can come in and really do well for stretches. I am glad that the FO did well in the offseason to have depth at the leagues most important position (now, let’s just fix the starting spot).
Winner: Free Agent OGs. I’m thinking we don’t pay top dollar for Mack this offseason (and I’ll be a bit sad on that day), move Greco to OC and find one bigtime FA for OG (and hopefully the other in the draft). What we have on run blocking in the interior this season is just unacceptable even in a pass-happy league.
Winner: NFL’s conspiracy theorists. The phantom grounding and DPI and a host of other calls kept the Pats in it. They took full advantage of those opportunities, which is on us, but it sure felt like the deck was stacked against us. Also, those who believe in the “Brown Pants Jinx” get to use this as exhibitA.
Winner: Free Agent ILB. We need 2, so we might go after 1 in FA? I don’t think you want your ILB getting pancaked by a 185lb WR on the goalline:
http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/826575488.gif?1386592899
Winner: McFadden. Surprising that he played as well as he did considering he couldn’t get playtime over Owens. He wasn’t great (and the phantom DPI on him killed us), but he sure did his job the rest of the game.
Winner: Haden & JoeT – they are always winners despite getting stuck on this particular team.
The way I see it, what Chud says to the public is irrelevant. The real question is what does he say to his players behind closed doors when nobody’s listening.
WINNER: Browns Draft position. Yeah, I’m that guy. But will agree in advance that at some point in my lifetime, the Browns need to develop a culture of winning. Learn how to close and win games.
LOSER: Luke Fickell. He and the Ohio State zone defense must go. Not good. Can we bring back Dantonio? (Know this thread is about the Browns, but still frustrated by Saturday night.
It’s interesting that you say that. It brings up a couple of points that I think are of interest…well at least one is, the other is just first order kind of thinking.
First-order one: I guess I’m saying I trust that Chud communicates to his guys the way that will maximize their performance. It might sound old to us, but maybe they need to hear exactly what hes’s spewing in order to maintain positivity and actually further the goals of developing and continuing to play hard even though “there’s nothing left to play for” in the sense that playoff contention isn’t a thing. (Lunch added a cousin point to this first-order one was I was typing…)
But higher-level…I think we are seeing the beginning of a paradigm shift in professional coaching–away from the old school fearing wrath kind of thing and towards a more positive reinforcement approach. The positive reinforcement generation is making up most of professional athletes now. And, like it or not, I think they respond more effectively to different types of communication. This is the first time we’ve seen college coaches making the jump in sports and making an immediate impact. Sure Harbaugh and Carroll had good players, but there’s something about their approach. Harbaugh blends tough-love with high praise and positivity even when things aren’t going great. Carroll is sort of all out on the positive reinforcement spectrum–ID the positives and “we’ll get ’em next time” “I’m proud of the way our guys fought.” Is that easier when teams are winning? Sure.
But I’m really interested in the Brad Stevens experiment in Boston. They’re supposed to be terrible. Terrible. Rondo isn’t playing. And yet, they’re almost .500 and already beat the Heat. Brad Stevens, with his younger, more modern positive approach is getting a TON out of a sub-par roster…and, I think you have to chalk at least some of that up to his positive approach and how it might fit these guys better…because who am I think of as foil? Mike Brown…whose old-school, public shaming approach (pulling Dion for lack of hustle, “making a point” with the Aussie, etc.) has clearly led to dysfunction.
I get that it seems like Dion and Kyrie aren’t on the same page. Their games might now fit, and their personalities might not either–they come from extraordinarily different backgrounds. But this wasn’t as big a problem last year. If it was, it was kept under wraps enough. Mike Brown comes in and everyone is pouting and there is tension and they clearly don’t look inspired to play hard…I think the old school approach doesn’t work with this new generation. Maybe they’re spoiled? (Kyrie pouts…A LOT.) Maybe it’s just because they grew up in the “Participation RIbbon” era. Whatever it is, I think we’re seeing an important shift.
And I for one think that working with the all-time pouter Cam Newton has allowed Chud to tap into this. And I think maybe the seemingly overly positive spin put on the losing is EXACTLY what this new generation of players needs to hear….
I mean, at the end of the day, “with nothing to play for,” this team went into the freezing cold and the snow into one of the toughest places on earth to get a home win and took it to a very good and extremely well-coached team. They found a way to get their two bests guys the ball even though Belly famously takes those kinds of things away. They gutted it out. Maybe the positive spin is keeping these guys in the right frame of mind.
Anyway, a hastily composed thought or two for consideration…
Nice to see some rationality and level heads around here it’s refreshing and reminds me of the days when it was actually enjoyable to have a discussion around here.
The OL is terrible great point. Rainey sure looked good yesterday for TB again.
I think you are right about Mack I think he’s very overrated. Pittsburgh brought Velasco out of retirement for an injured Pouncey and they run the ball just as well as Cleveland. The OL has Thomas and that’s it.
Your points about the NFL are dead on. They’ve pretty much turned me away from the league and the sport. I still follow the Browns, but they’ve done a good job themselves to minimize my interest in them.
The proliferation of instant replay hasn’t made officiating better. If anything, it’s just created greater nuance to what once were imperfect but simple rules. An NFL game now is more like full-contact mock trial, where too many plays degrade into an ontological debate about what constitutes “possession” or “forward progress”.
I totally get the “general” idea that draft position is a good thing, but when has draft position actually helped us? Do you honestly think that it matters? I’m so sick of losing, and the difference between drafting #5 and drafting, say, #10 or #15 is minimal, in my mind.
I wonder what Gordon could do if he had a real NFL QB. Kinda scary. I know he’d be All-World in New England and Tom Brady would love him more then Gisele.
Because of player safety, I wonder how long until the NFL looks like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBdiD-MuujQ
While I do think that spot foul is sometimes a proper call (otherwise you’ll see guys get tackled on deep balls), I think that the refs simply need to follow the rules: The ball must be catchable and the defender needs to have materially interfered with the receiver’s ability to catch it. That would eliminate most calls off the bat.
Your points about Mack, Jackson et al show how far this team has come. Guys who used to be our studs are now “good, but not good enough”. That’s the difference between this year and years past.
Also, Belichik DID take out our best weapon. Gordon was held like 40-50 below his average from the previous weeks. 🙂
Winner: the TV viewers. Because Josh Gordon set a franchise record for receiving yards in a season, we got to see a photo of Webster Slaughter rocking a jerri curl in his head shot when they showed the franchise’s top 3 in single-season receiving yards.
It’s always something… when the defense is stout, the offense is woeful; when the offense finally starts clicking, the defense suddenly becomes a liability; when the game is close, Chud mismanages the clock; when a game looks like it’s won, the refs blow huge calls; when they take a team’s best WR out of the game (megatron), they get burned by the 3rd team TE for 3 TDs; when it finally looks like they have a viable QB, he goes on season-ending IR. It is maddening.
I did see that, but at one point he was 94 yards on 15 carries, one of them being 80 yards (untouched)
I want a good QB and don’t want to use both 1st rd picks on one. Hoping the steelers lose 3rd round pick and forfeit 2nd round to us!
I am very much looking forward to finding out (I hope). It’s hurting my brain to try to process the idea that this guy might end up leading the NFL in receiving with Weeden/Hoyer/Campbell as his QB’s. It doesn’t seem like that should be remotely possible.
great point. we needed those last 50yds late in the game too!
I just don’t believe that QB is in this draft. None of the guys available strike me as being any more of a sure thing than Brandon Weeden was. I’ll gladly take a QB, but don’t think it’s worth banking on a top 5 pick to get him.
And maybe I’m jaded from the “favored son” treatment we witnessed yesterday, but there is NO WAY the NFL is going to punish the darling Steelers by making them give up their 3rd round pick, particularly if it benefits the Browns.
Some good stuff there, Jack. But as far as I am concerned, there is nothing good to be taken from blowing a 12-point lead with 2 minutes left, and I don’t want to be told that there was. There’s not enough lipstick in the world for that pig.
I like Carr, but not a sure thing.
I agree on Stoolers
Speaking of the draft and the Steelers, I honestly wouldn’t mind if the Browns took a non-first round chance on Jordan Lynch. He reminds me, in a many ways (on the field), of Roethlisberger when he was in the MAC.
Probably be able to get him on the 3rd day.
I thought Talib would take Gordon out of the game it looked like it for almost a half but Gordon showed why he’s skyrocketing up the WR charts.
Gordon and Cameron are the 1-2 punch they just have to build around them. I personally hope they don’t get consumed with the QB position that they sacrifice getting Gordon & Cameron help. After all they’ve produced with the trio of QBs this year which means they can produce regardless of who is at QB.
The biggest issue is so many needs. Need a QB, need another WR maybe two, need a RB and most importantly you need OL. Perhaps as many as three. And that’s just the offensive side of the ball. Now you see why this team is what it is!
I don’t see any kind of comparison sorry Lynch is smaller, a run first QB the MAC’s Manziel. Big Ben was never like that he was a big strong armed QB the polar opposite.
Bryant being gone all season killed the Buckeyes secondary but even still hopefully Meyer loads up on recruiting defense because that’s the biggest need. Lack of a pass rush also didn’t help a weak secondary.
Great point on Rainey I missed your stats from yesterday when I commented. I knew he had another big game but wow, to bad Browns.
Saw Roethlisberger play in the Shoe, and the game that I saw reminds me a ton of what I see from Lynch. A lot. Irrespective of size or the nature of their offenses, they play with the same mentality – and I don’t think we’ve seen anything of Lynch’s arm (especially if he’s the “MAC’s Manziel,” then it must be strong enough). And don’t forget that Roethlisberger did not come into the NFL as a “strong-armed” QB, but rather as a “win with your feet game manager.”
15 yards and automatic 1st down is still a significant penalty. I don’t know that you would see much more talking going on that you already do when a defender gets beat.
I do agree with your other point, though. No more micro-analyzing penalties. Let them play the game. Penalties should be crystal clear to even the most inexperienced of viewers. Officials should be told that unless it’s a player safety issue, when in doubt, leave the flag in your pocket.
I can’t judge “mentality” I can only judge what I see on the field which includes physical attributes, style of play, production and results. From what I have seen Lynch is another one of the smaller mobile playmaking QBs much in the mold of Griffin, Wilson and the other numerous potentials coming out this draft. As far as “win with your feet game manager” I remember Big Ben being scrambling back in his college days but he was more of a pocket passer who possessed the necessary foot skills to move within the pocket to evade would be tacklers. His physical size was a huge asset in helping his lateral movement within the pocket. Or maybe I’m just mistaken.
To me Bridgewater is a better comparison to Big Ben. Bridgewater is a QB who can move when he has to but is a pocket passing mobile when needed yet physically strong. This past game against Cincinnati demonstrated all of these elements.
I think your comment on Chud is apt. At a minimum, I remember thinking yesterday, Chud, by being competent, is 1,000 times better than Shurmur was…