Browns

Should the Browns cut bait on the Brandon Weeden Experience? A WFNY Roundtable

WFNY_roundtable

WFNY_roundtable

Scott: So… Was that the last start for Brandon WeedenShould it be his last start?

TD: They cannot trot him out there at home again. It will be a the ugliest of ugly scenes if they do so. My guess is they start him at KC, let him hang himself with more bad QB play on the road against one of the best defenses in the league, and prepare Campbell to start in two weeks against the Ravens. Remember, Campbell got a start at SF last year when Jay Cutler got hurt. He was painfully bad. Why repeat that? Think about this – the Browns front office was going to go into the season with Campbell and Weeden as their two QBs until Hoyer was cut by Arizona in MAY. They didn’t draft a QB. They let Thad Lewis walk. These were going to be there two guys. Scary thought.

Oh, and he should NEVER take another snap in Cleveland. He is that bad.

Andrew: It’s not a scary thought, it’s a scary reality. Hoyer isn’t coming back this year, so these are the 2 guys we as fans are stuck with. I’m not sure why the Browns didn’t at least take a look at Josh Freeman.

As for the original question, I just don’t know what I think they should do with Weeden. Is Jason Campbell really any better? I guess he theoretically can’t be any worse.

Rick: You can’t go back to Weeden if you make that switch.

Not that I’m against that…

TD: Weeden is a lightning rod. I think the locker room saw what Hoyer did and look at Weeden completely different. He doesn’t inspire anyone – the team, the fans, the front office, etc. Not that Campbell is any great shakes, but I think we’ve all seen enough of Weeden at this point.

Craig: I would love to say that Brandon Weeden absolutely cannot make another start for the Cleveland Browns, but it’s not the case. He can and likely will. The Browns don’t have a lot of options, and they’ve shown no interest in exploring what options might be available. I’m completely disheartened that the Browns haven’t signed a third QB of any kind since Brian Hoyer went down injured.

When you watch Brandon Weeden’s body of work this season, it’s absolutely baffling that they think this team can get make any kind of progress in any phase of the game – from offense and defense to special teams – with a field “general” that absolutely nobody can have confidence in anymore.

If I cared, I’d be scared, but I’ve written this thing off already. That’s really sad, but I can’t see how they will prove me wrong. Another season wasted. Another year of my life with irrelevant football. Is anyone looking forward to the KC game next week?

TD: Hey, at least T Rich continues to look bad in Indy and we have a first round pick to show for him! bright side! Seriously, So glad I yet again paid for another year of this. Such a shame that Hoyer got hurt. He at least made things interesting and the team took to him. You are right Craig, how is there not some sort of developmental guy on this roster or even the practice squad like a Thad Lewis?

Andrew: It’s funny, because I was Heckert’s biggest supporter, and I really believed in his drafts. But trading up to take Richardson was an enormous mistake and taking Weeden in the first round was almost just as bad. Those two moves really hurt this franchise. The Browns’ new regime made a move to fix the first problem, but they still haven’t done a thing about the Weeden problem. I don’t know either why they haven’t tried fixing the problem since Hoyer’s injury. Maybe they really are tanking this season.

TD: They may be taking the NBA approach. There is no glory in 6-10 or 5-11. Might as well for 2-14, 3-13 and get in the top 3. The problem is they blew smoke at us all off season about how competitive they would be and how much better things would look on the field.

Craig: This argument drives me nuts. For every Andrew Luck, there’s a Ben Roethlisberger or Joe Flacco who was not taken in the top five. At some point you have to win any way possible. I’m at that point as a fan. I don’t care what their plan is. It better include winning ASAP.

I had a specific discussion about “tanking” with my brother today too. The Colts didn’t really tank to get Andrew Luck. Peyton Manning got hurt. They had Curtis Painter on the roster. They tried desperately to get reasonable QB play out of Kerry Collins. That team still had Mathis, Freeney, Reggie Wayne, a younger Joseph Addai, Dallas Clark and Pierre Garcon. They didn’t tank as much as they were poisoned by the loss of Peyton Manning and whichever scrubby dude they got to fill in for him in whichever week.

After watching the defense of the Browns regress with Brandon Weeden at the helm, doesn’t it sound familiar?

Andrew: I think we have to remember it’s still a business. If tanking was their goal all along, there’s no way they can publicly say that. They have to say they are optimistic and that things will be better.And I would argue that you can point to the defense as being significantly better. They chose to improve defense in year one, and we’re getting results there. Hopefully this offseason they address the offense and then next year we start to see results on that side of the ball.

Scott: I can’t wait until they do find a quarterback and then he has to worry about getting killed because Joe Thomas will have retired.In a masochistic (and vindictive) sort of way, I want to see just how bad things can get. The last time we saw Joe Banner and Jimmy Haslam, they were yucking it up as their team squeaked past the incomparable Jeff Tuel. Two brutal losses later and it’s crickets.

I can’t believe I’m saying it, but I’d honestly consider Vince Young at this point. At least he could run for his life with a little more success.

TD: I would MUCH rather watch Vince Young try to resurrect his career than watch Weeden continue to flounder. That said, VY is not a Norv Turner type of QB.

Andrew: Give me Vince Young over Brandon Weeden any week. Weeden is legitimately the worst QB in the NFL. What can anyone point to as a strength or something Weeden does well? I can’t name one thing. That’s horrible.

TD: Don’t forget, that the Browns of 2010 really responded to Colt McCoy in the same fashion that they rallied around Hoyer. There was no book on him either. The defense was good, and McCoy made enough plays to keep them in games. All it takes ia a LITTLE to get us into it. Weeden can’t even do that.

  • It’s not THAT bad!

    Anthony Bennett, though…..

    Give the Browns credit though. They came within 9 days of their season goal: get us to Cavs season.

  • Harv 21

    Two things:

    – You can’t say benching Weeden means we won’t see him again. Kinda hard to pluck a QB from somewhere else and plug him in this time of year. And as long as Mitchell Schwartz is treating edge rushers like Turnstile 2.0, it’s silly to assume Jason Thompson can last 9 straight games.

    – Never thought I’d miss Seneca Wallace.

    OK, bonus #3:

    – WHY CAN’T WE HAVE ONE ENTERTAINING SEASON – NOT CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON, JUST ONE THAT’S WATCHABLE START TO FINISH?! Sometimes I think there’s something poisonous here, that I’m the dust bowl farmer circa ’34 in denial, refusing to pack up the jalopy and git, stubbornly mumbling that the drought’s about to break, the buffalo grass will pop back up and football glory will be restored any day now.

  • bupalos

    I just wish folks could leave it where it is, instead of piling on the whole team/regime. The fact is this is a fairly good team with pretty easily the worst QB in the NFL, which means it is a bad team. Put Hoyer (Hoyer!) back on this team and we’re tied for 1st in the division. If Luck or Manning got their knee squished out on an awkward slide last night, either of those potential superbowl teams would be be lucky to win 2 more games this year. Just leave it where it is. Without a QB in this league, you got nothing.

    Draft a QB and corner and come out next year with Hoyer and we’re golden.

  • Ben Frambaugh

    Corner? Why? Skrine has done really well and Haden is of course really good. We need a FS far more than a CB. For that matter, needs that are greater than another CB (and excluding QB) are as follows (listed alphabetically)
    FS, ILB, OG, RB, RT

  • Chris McLafferty

    I agree that is this season is in tank-mode and at this point do you honestly blame them? Josh Freeman? Josh Freeman hasn’t shown he’s a great QB for 3 years. Why didn’t we take a look at Josh Freeman? Because there is 6 potentially game/franchise changing QBs in the draft (depending on who you ask Bridgewater, Mariota, Hundley, Manziel, Boyd and Morris) and I’d rather be in a better spot to get the one we truly think is our franchise QB then 2 more wins on the season. And please…none of this Joe Flacco and Big Ben stuff. They were small school QBs that people weren’t sold on when they came into the draft. For those two lets look at the others taken outside the top 10 Weeden (instead of Luck, Griffin and Tannehill), Gabbert and Ponder at #10 and #12 (instead of Newton and Locker), #25 Tebow (Bradford), #17 Freeman (Stafford), #25 Campbell (Alex Smith), #22 J.P Losman (Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers), #19 Kyle Boller, #22 Rex Grossman (Carson Palmer). That’s the drop off in the last 10 years between a top 10 QB and getting a first round QB later.

    Weeden is the worst QB in the NFL, hands down. They owe the fans and the respect of the legacy of the Cleveland Browns to bench him (even release him) to show him the disrespect he has shown for this franchise with his awful play. They need to bring an accountability to the team, showing we won’t take this anymore. I don’t care if they put a fan out as QB as long as its someone working to get better each week. If you’re still having problems throwing 3 yard passes, still throwing balls underhand (How confident are we Weeden played minor league BASEBALL and not minor league SOFTBALL?), still making terrible decisions and still holding onto the ball too long then it’s time we show you the bench (or the door). Enough is enough.

  • Paul Marsh

    At the point where I’d gotten numb to yesterday’s game and run out of adjectives to describe how lost Weeden looked when he dropped back to pass I joked to someone that during practice someone will ask him to read something. There will be a “Rick Vaughn” moment and they’ll get him the glasses, only with Brownie elf in the middle instead of the skull. Maybe then he’ll start to see all these open receivers that Hoyer has been able to see.

  • saggy

    the question, really, is this: is RB before RT when done alphabetically?
    I mean, are the initials the way to break the tie, or do you go to the words they represent? Because Running back is certainly AFTER right tackle, alphabetically, but RB comes before RT.

  • TEBOW!!!!

  • bupalos

    Skrine is showing himself to be capable and still has upside, but that means we have 1 excellent and 1 serviceable corner, and that’s it. No competent depth, Owens has been really bad. I agree all those slots need addressing, corner is just where I spend a high pick given the market, and do the rest with FA (after resigning ward) or later round. Love to sign Sean Lee off the Cowboys for ILB, they are maxed out.

  • Jason Hurley

    You stop it right now.

  • 216in614

    I wish Weeden would just go start his minor league career in the WNBA now and save us all the embarrassment.

  • saggy

    nice analysis, if a touch shallow. But i agree with the fact that they should just cut Weeden. They have talked about their culture and their guys so Weeden is really a square peg in a round hole. or whatever.

    My problem is this: They are positioned for the 10th-16th pick right now. Based on who is ahead of them right now, 5 of those teams don’t need a QB (Buffalo, NYGiants, Washington, Atlanta, Baltimore).

    3 other teams could conceivably draft one (Pittsburgh, Philly, St. Louis – especially now with Bradford done).

    which leaves at least 8 teams that will definitely draft a franchise QB if the right one is available.

    It seems the Browns may be on the outside, looking in, again. I am really not sure that the hypothetical 15th pick plus the Colts mid-20’s pick gets you into the top-10. gonna take a lot more than that.

    so, with that being said….maybe they SHOULD keep Weeden.

  • I was thinking of something along these lines except Banner was Jake Taylor standing in the middle of the locker room after Hoyer went down saying: “There’s only one thing left to do; Lose the whole F-ing thing….”

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    You can’t honestly miss Seneca Wallace can you?

    As for your latter question I think that is how more and more people are feeling these days but if all ya’ll were honest with yourselves before this season started you’d have realized this was a bad team for a reason and not much outside of ownership and coaching had changed. Sure they added some free agents on defense but other then that nothing. It’s going to take at least another year or two before you see a more well rounded product and this is assuming the ginger snaps and is no longer the QB.

  • Dude would beast in Cricket. Any game where you can intentionally throw it into the ground and it’s a good thing he wins.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    Ah the lovely p-word: potential.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    The problem for Weeden isn’t seeing it’s anticipating. At 30 it’s to late.

  • Harv 21

    No, I had no reason to be certain that Weeden would be less than mediocre with a coordinator who specializes in bringing out the best in big-armed, relatively immobile QBs. In Weeden, Norv has seemingly met his match, a dude who not only doesn’t get it, but doesn’t know he doesn’t get it within 3.9 seconds.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    I hear what your saying and agree completely. I felt this was Weeden’s best chance with Turner and that he should be given the opportunity. The real problem was Hoyer came in from being third string and demonstrated first hand that Weeden was deficient. That was the final nail for me.

  • Harv 21

    yep. If a no-name undrafted career back-up who’s been cut 3 times and gets as many practice reps any 3rd stringer can step right in make Norv’s offense hum while Brandon holds the ball forever when he’s not firing like a blind guy playing paintball …

  • Ben Frambaugh

    Went with initials, thought it was obvious.

    But good call. This particular page needed some humor, and you delivered. Wish it hadn’t been at my expense. I shall go cry some more thinking about this and our QB options as they stand right now.

  • whosevelt

    For all the QBs who were drafted late first round or later and busted, there are QBs who were drafted with top-10 picks and busted (David Carr, Mark Sanchez, Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch). A higher pick doesn’t guarantee a better quarterback. A lower pick just means the front office has to earn its money because they can’t take the consensus top pick and either ride him or fall back on “everyone thought he was great!”

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    Other then there isn’t anyone to replace him Weeden needs to sit. 48.6 passer rating yesterday, ugh!

  • RGB

    I don’t think there is a seniors cricket league.

  • Chris McLafferty

    Yes there are those who were top 10 picks and busted but look at QBs taken in the Top 10 since 2000.

    Good-Luck, Griffin, Newton, Stafford, Ryan, Manning, Rivers,
    Solid-Tannehill, Locker, Alex Smith, Palmer, Vick
    ??-Bradford (Injury Prone)
    Awful-Sanchez, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Leinart, Leftwich, Carr, Harrington.

    (Though I feel you can look at a few of them, Carr,Harrington and Sanchez and say their teams ruined them. Sanchez was solid for a a few years. Carr and Harrington we’re destroyed by the the lack of support both on the offensive line and other playmakers. Russell was a headcase and lazy. Young I still think can show flashes.)

    Better stat though. Based on who is a solid starting QB in the NFL
    Top 5 Pick = 13
    Picks 5-10 =1 (Locker)
    10-15 = 2 (Cutler and Roethlisberger both at #11)
    15-32 = 3 (Manuel (#16), Flacco (#18), and Rodgers (#24)
    2nd Round = 4 (Dalton, Brees, Kaepernick, Geno Smith)
    3rd Round = 1-2 (Russell Wilson & If you want to count him for now, Schaub)
    6th Round = 1 (Brady)
    Undrafted = Romo

    I didn’t count the QB situation for Browns, Raiders, Jags, Vikings and Bucs (since they are not openly tied to their starter).

    That means 13 of 27 (almost half) of the starting QBs are taken in the first 5 picks.

  • 216in614

    I think Craig mentioned this in today’s podcast maybe they should probably take a QB with all there picks. I mean seriously. If they cant trade up take a QB with each of the first 3 picks.

    I know people will say there are too many holes on this team for that but we all know QB is the single most important position on the team. And this team looks decent with decent QB play. Imagine if it had above average QB play.

    You can always make some QB desperate team trade for one of them later.

  • WFNY_DP

    Aaron Rodgers was a low first round pick, no? Yes, he slid down the board, and yes he got to sit behind Favre for four years, but he was considered a top-five pick heading into that draft. And, he’s played like one.

  • mgbode

    but, Brady Quinn was just cut by the Jets!

    (joking….joking)

  • mgbode

    I hear he’s really good at breaking up clay pigeons

  • dwhit110

    I know nobody wants to look on the bright side after watching that miserable GB game, but I’m starting to feel decently good about this front office… Let’s review:

    Remember how bad we all felt about the switch to the 3-4, thinking it’d take several seasons to get back to where Jauron had us with the 4-3? I think we’ve already surpassed that.

    Remember how upset we were about losing Heckert, thinking his drafts were solid? That’s looking less and less so.

    Remember how dubious we were when they grabbed Hoyer off the scrap heap? Seems like they knew what they were doing there.

    You get the idea. It sucks. I hate watching Weeden lead this losing, boring brand of football too, but maybe, just maybe someone who knows what they’re doing is finally in charge in Berea.

  • RGB

    Pat White is available.
    I always liked that guy.

  • dwhit110

    Blaine Gabbert is the worst QB in the NFL, but otherwise spot on.

  • Robbie S

    I like both ideas tbh. Even if Skrine has been good this year, what’s wrong with getting another talented corner to challenge him for the #2 spot?

    So having good corners from #1-nickel is a bad thing? I would hope Leon Washington could step up and a competent #4 CB for Dime packages.

    -And it’s clear as day that depth is important. What if Skrine get’s hurt next year? Are you really comfortable with Chris Owens as your #2?

  • Robbie S

    This seems to be the most overlooked factor of the team right now. The front office has been right with a good majority of their calls.

    Just remember, with Brian Hoyer starting for the Browns 2 weeks ago, we were talking playoffs, PLAYOFFS! There is a light at the end of the tunnel but, nobody likes the long walk in the dark.

  • whosevelt

    The counterargument is that your point goes both ways. Yes, some first rounders were ruined by bad situations (although I don’t know what bad situation Sanchez was in) but there are also lots of QBs who never get a chance because they played for a small school and were drafted late. Even the ones who make it only do it in a specific set of circumstances – they sit behind a star for a few years, and then take over as an emergency. If they shine in their one shot, they can have a career, but if not, they will have trouble even getting work as a backup. Imagine if the late rounders got as much run as Sanchez or Couch before they were discarded – we’d have a lot more rags to riches quarterbacks.

  • mgbode

    how about Vana?

  • RGB

    Well, she’s younger than Brandon.
    And she has better footwork.

  • Travis Fortney

    Tebow time!!!

  • Wow

    One thing that drives me crazy is Weeden stares at the receiver, literally leading the defense toward him. I watched him do it almost every play.

  • Jason Hurley

    How else are you going to throw the ball to them after they get open if you don’t watch them the whole time?

  • Jacob Miller

    Completely agree. Realistically, the browns are not going out and finding a QB at this point that is going to bring many wins along with him. Sure, its entirely possible that we could find a guy that may at least be less frustrating than the numnutz we’ve been watching. But I say, throw Campbell in there, run a slow methodical offense with the occasional big play try from your explosive players and hope you can at least make the game competitive. We all want the browns to win, but there’s just no sense in going out there and wasting even a little bit of money on a clunker. Just suck it up and wait it out until we have some real options to choose from, then if the front office drops the ball we can all get together and storm the streets. Next years always better anyways….. gives you something to look forward to.

  • Wow

    They never do. Most people check around the field and don’t stare down the receiver.

  • James Workman

    While I agree with your assessment reagrding Weedens play on the field, I fail to see how he has “disrespected” the franchise. If anything he has handled the vitreol thrown his way with a bit of class. How many modern athletes in his current situation would’ve lashed out via social media or allowed their emotions to get the better of them in a post game interview by now? He is a complete failure as an NFL quarterback, no doubt. As far as the disrespect you claim he has shown, I just dont see it.

  • Jason Hurley

    I suspect my sarcasm font wasn’t working for my first comment.

  • RGB

    Especially when the coaches already told him, “No Brandon you can’t yell at the line of scrimmage, ‘Hey! I’m throwing to you!'”.
    He is so crafty.

  • mgbode

    Chuck Knoblauch, sorry, I mean Josh Freeman is doing his best to make a run at that crown.

  • bupalos

    The problem with that is you only have so much space and time for development and evaluation. Also, when you take one off the board, that presses the next team to move faster, so the odds are drafting 3 in a row you are actually drafting 1 high and taking what would have been sinkers with the next 2. I could possibly agree with 2 (+Hoyer), but that’s as far as I’d go with that. 3 would be counter productive.

  • Chris McLafferty

    Sorry, I meant more of a disrespect to the jersey he wears. Not what he says in the media or pulling any type of Derek Anderson stuff. I mean more towards the insufficient work he is putting in is a disgrace to a franchise. I think it’s clear he lacks the work ethic to strive to get better. The thing I’ve noticed from him is it seems like he has a sense of entitlement. Not in an overbearing way but it just seems to me, he’s not working to get better. He continues to make the same exact mistakes he’s been making since he played his first game for us even though the losses continue to pile up.