Former Indians comment on Michael Bourn signing

This season the Indians have committed (we use the term loosely as the Tribe could always flip these deals) $117 million dollars to free agents. The past three off-seasons, Cleveland has spent just over $11 million total to free agents. This fact was not lost on players, current and former.

That’s why Michael Bourn’s deal was a big surprise to Cleveland fans, as well as some former Indians-

Anthony Castrovince tweeted about his conversation with former catcher Victor Martinez, now with the Tigers-

“I broke the Michael Bourn news to Victor Martinez. “Wow,” he said. “I guess they want to win now, huh? How ’bout that?” #Indians”

The sentiment was shared by former Cy Young winner with the Tribe C.C. Sabathia, who was quoted by CBS Sports’ Danny Knobler

“CC Sabathia on Bourn signing: “I never got a free agent like that when I was there. Good for them.”

[Related: On Michael Bourn: The Terry Francona Effect Continues To Pay Dividends]

  • Steve

    CC and Victor, you had in-their-primes Sizemore and Hafner, who blow the current versions of Bourn and Swisher out of the water (and were at least equal to you two), along with a bunch of other solid players.

    I know CC liked to live in the fantasyland where he was Lebron carrying a team of scrubs to 90 wins, but I didn’t think Victor was there too.

  • dwhit110

    I didn’t read Vic’s comments as a dig, “now vs. when i was there” type thing. Just more of a they could be rebuilding or they could be trying to win now, I guess it’s now, type thing.

    CC’s comments on the other hand…

  • Steve

    Fair enough. Maybe reading CC’s comment first affected how I viewed Martinez’s.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    I know your related to either the Dolan’s, Shapiro or Antonetti!

  • ThatAlex

    I still miss Victor.

  • SDA

    I didn’t watch or attend 1 single game for two years because of that trade.

  • SDA

    can I like this like 100 times?

  • Vindictive_Pat

    That comment from CC ticks me off. Looking at the 2007 playoffs, you can hang that series loss to the Red Sox on CC’s wide shoulders. 12 earned runs given up in 10.1 innings.

  • Steve

    The only response this deserves is – holy grammar batman!

  • Steve

    That’s an overreaction.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    Dude please tell me you didn’t think that was witty or even worse funny? Batman would be greatly offended that you used his name in that response. I think Aqua Man is more in your league tough guy. Have a nice day!


  • SDA

    actually it was in protest The only way to affect (always use the wrong one?) change is by how we spend our money. So I didn’t give them my money. I spent it on the Cavs and Browns. This year it looks like the Dolans did exactly what you have said in the past they couldn’t do, they spent money. So this year I may attend a few games.

  • Steve

    So you think the only way the Indians would spend more money is if they got less to work with?

    The Dolans spent this year because they got MORE money, thanks to the new TV deal. The Dolans have always spent when they had the money to do so.

    And I expected the Dolans to try to spend more money this year as they got an influx of cash. I thought that since everyone else was getting extra spending money too that it wouldn’t amount to too much different than years past. But, the big difference, is that the market for Swisher and Bourn was weaker than the market for Willingham and Beltran.

  • SDA

    I think that they are selling a product and if I don’t like the product then I spend my money elsewhere. Steve your fun to argue /debate with and usually, even when I don’t agree with you, I can still see your point of view. Your way off on this. They are selling a product, and expecting people to keep spending on an inferior product is just bad business. You always talk about small market money. Well I’m a small market person. My disposable income has decreased every year for the past 10 years or so because I work in the residential construction industry. I don’t have the money to spend like I used to so I’m going to use it where I get the most quality for my dollar. And until this year the Indians haven’t even made an effort to attract my dollar. When a representative from the Indians called my shortly after the end of last season I told him the exact same thing. Maybe more people said what I said and they saw the light, maybe its Francona, I don’t really care. But if they put some quality on the field people will return. To expect the consumer to support a crap product is just ridiculous.

  • Steve

    What am I way off about? I’m not telling you how to spend your money. I’m telling you that the Dolans spent more because they got a nice chunk of change, not because people stopped giving them money.

    I have no idea why you think that all of a sudden, just in the last few weeks, the Dolans suddenly realized that people aren’t coming to the park, and that maybe if they spend more money, more people might come. Do you really think they never thought about that before this offseason?

    And in regards to the overreaction comment, I don’t see how I’m off on that either. No one liked the Victor trade, but you have to be able to understand it. They weren’t contending during the rest of his contract, already had the catcher of the future on the roster, and got three live arms in return. That’s a good baseball move. Not even watching a game is making it personal, and overreacting. The Browns and Cavs have been no better than the Indians, and I’m sure you devoted time and money to those two franchises.

  • SDA

    The trade of Victor was, just one many that, were nothing more then pure salary dump trades. Most of which most had little to no return. It was sold to us under the premiss that he wont resign with us anyhow so we may as well get “something” for him. I called BS. It has been said millions of times everywhere the only way to change a game or team is through how we spend our money. So that is what I did . I would say that is a very appropriate reaction. An inappropriate reaction would have been calling and screaming or continuing to support a team that I felt wasn’t trying to win. I want a team that “tries” and the Indians weren’t trying in my opinion. Pretty simple really. You can argue my opinion was off base but you cant say I overreacted. My reaction was appropriate one of given my opinion

  • Steve

    It’s as if you didn’t even read my post, which doesn’t surprise me in the least.

    Sure, they didn’t want to pay Victor that much money in a year when they were losing money and weren’t contending. But there are other factors at play. You don’t get to ignore them for whatever reason you are doing so. When you show you can address the points someone else is making, we can have a discussion about this.

    That line about spending money can be said as many times as you want to pretend. I’ll only care when you can prove it to be accurate. Again, you’re only reiterating the same thing you said earlier, and are not interested in responding to my points.

    Your definition of “tries” is spending a bunch of money on free agents, which has been shown time and time again to be the least efficient way to add wins. You’re only skimming the surface of roster building, and only seeing what you want to see.

  • ThatAlex

    The Victor trade was just a bad, bad move. Anytime you trade the team captain (who loved the city and wanted to stay here, no less) you’re bound to get hostility from the fan base, which leads to people like SDA and myself not attending the games until the product on the field is watchable again. I wonder if the money saved was worth it, for them.

  • SDA

    just because my opinion differs doesn’t mean I don’t read what you say.
    my opinion
    so point 1) Why trade an all-star player who loves where he is and has proven to be a good clubhouse leader. He could easily have moved to first base and filled the hole we have had even before we traded him. They did it because they were cheap. They had our money so why try.

    2) I don’t have to prove anything about the spending money line because when a majority of us stopped spending they got the hint. They could have pocketed the extra TV revenue but they didn’t. You can’t prove that point either way so it is all opinion. Unless of coarse you really are related to a Dolan and have inside information.

    3) No my definition of tries has never been nor will it ever be throwing away money. The general consensus at the beginning of last year was that we were a right handed bat away from the playoffs. They didn’t spend a dime. That’s just cheap and not trying.

  • Steve

    I didn’t suggest you didn’t read because your opinion differs. I suggested you didn’t read because you refused to acknowledge or respond to any point I was saying. You wanted to have your rant, and not an actual discussion.

    Why trade a proven all star? Maybe because they weren’t contending during the rest of his contract, already had the
    catcher of the future on the roster, and got three live arms in return. You might recognize that from somewhere. These are very important factors that you can’t just ignore because they don’t fit your conspiracy theory.

    In regards to point number two, I have no idea why you think that all of a sudden, just in the last few
    weeks, the Dolans suddenly realized that people aren’t coming to the
    park, and that maybe if they spend more money, more people might come. Familiar? There is no logical way to get to the point that just now the Dolans decided they should start spending a bunch of money. Especially when we look at other factors like them getting a new TV deal. Not all opinions are created equally; heuristics, my man.

    And the general consensus was pretty wrong, wouldn’t you say? Some people knew that the hitting wasn’t as much of a problem as the pitching, but that didn’t prevent the people who didn’t want to dig a little deeper from continually gnashing their teeth over the 2-3 wins that Willingham provides. And of course, the Indians spent 16 million more in 2012 than they did in 2011. They also were in it till the end on Willingham, Beltran, Kubel and Pena. But thats cheap and not trying because, well, because you say so.

  • SDA

    It still boils down to opinion. You can argue all day long but I will disagree with your premiss that the Dolans aren’t a bottom line leadership team. Its all about money and profit. Which is fine but Im all about supporting winning which they have nor done. Simple math.