Damon to report to Indians on Tuesday; will wear 33
April 30, 2012ESPN Cleveland: John Hughes was in demand
April 30, 2012We’ve all weighed in on any number of details with regard to the draft this weekend and today, but I do have a few more things I wanted to discuss. None of these things are sourced, but these are the conclusions I am left with after draft day.
Colt McCoy will not get a fair shot to win the QB job this year. I’m not even saying he should get a “fair shot” either because the Browns have seemingly decided that the ceiling just isn’t high enough. Colt McCoy didn’t make the throws last year, but I am still not sure if he couldn’t or if he wouldn’t. Well, I know that he wouldn’t because he was king of the dump-off.
All that being said, I think it is possible that Colt McCoy could be better prepared to play QB for the Browns in the offense this season than Weeden. Regardless, I don’t think Colt will get the same chance as Weeden will be getting all the attention of the coaching staff in full groom mode.
Colt McCoy doesn’t have to leave Cleveland. I don’t think anyone lives in fear of a QB controversy more than I do. This regime hasn’t given any of us any reason to fear one. Controversies are made from people making bad decisions. Using coin flips to decide starting quarterback comes to mind. The Browns have changed quarterbacks in each of the past three years, but they honestly haven’t been embroiled in QB controversy since Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn left. As long as the Browns coaching staff handles their business they can easily go into the season with Colt McCoy and Brandon Weeden on the roster. Notice I didn’t say anything about Seneca Wallace? I think almost everyone agrees that he is the odd man out. He also probably has the largest trade value.
Tom Heckert did NOT say that he is happy with the team as it is today in terms of wide receivers. Not definitively anyway. This weekend Heckert was asked if he regretted not getting a wide receiver and he said something to the effect of, “No. We’re happy with the guys we got.” Everyone took that to mean that the Browns are coming in standing pat at the wide receiver position for training camp. I am 99.999% sure that he didn’t mean the current makeup of the roster. I am quite sure he meant he was happy with guys like Brandon Weeden, Mitchell Schwartz and the rest of the haul from draft day that he”got” instead of taking a wide receiver before Travis Benjamin. Maybe I am being naive, but I still think the Browns are going to bring a veteran wide receiver in either by trade or free agency.
Tom Heckert’s body language to me indicated that it was a frustrating weekend. I am just guessing on this, but when Terry Pluto asked his question about the 5th-6th round rating on John Hughes, Heckert was completely dismissive and basically rolled his eyes. After hearing rumors that the Browns tried to trade up from #22 to secure one of the top wide receivers before selecting Brandon Weeden, it is reasonable to assume that he just didn’t get things to fall his way this weekend. At least not enough. This doesn’t mean it is a bad draft, but it might mean that the Browns ended up being disappointed that they didn’t do better.
Finally, we should all probably treat any pick after round two or three as, either “That seems good. Interesting. We’ll see” or “That seems bad. Interesting. We’ll see.” As the draft gets more and more popular everyone wants to go crazy for the entire weekend, but honestly even as the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds represent a splendid opportunity to score great value, it is also the biggest crap shoot. Specifically, we all have huge questions now about John Hughes. Once that’s on the record, you just have to wait and see. I can’t, for the life of me, figure out why anyone would want to extract blood over a pick in the third round beyond “Interesting. We’ll see.” It isn’t like Heckert drafted a punter or anything.
That’s it for now. I can’t wait to see how this team develops in training camp. The one positive note that I can’t help but leave with is that the Browns should have added the biggest impact player in their entire conference when they got Trent Richardson. Sure, they had to be the worst in 2011 in order to score that pick, but they got him. It could fail miserably, but there’s no way to feel badly about Richardson right now.
Might as well enjoy it.
(AP Photo/Bill Haber)
52 Comments
Isn’t the section on WRs a little convuleted? Heckert has repeatedly said that he/they are happy with the guys they have AT WR which is why they didn’t sign a FA or draft one sooner. Clearly he means what he says, no?
As far as the body language goes this speaks to the egos on display in Berea. It’s clear they think they know more then anyone else and therefore shouldn’t be questioned even after the decisions they make leave people scratching their heads.
How long does all of this continue…it’s year three do we wait one more year or two? Will the next excuse me that the Browns had one of the toughest schedules or possibly yet another rookie QB?
here’s one thought I haven’t heard: would people really be happier today if we had successfully traded for Griffin? Our next pick would have been in the third round, our starting RB would be … um … Our right tackle would be … ? And we’d be looking at two straight upcoming years with no first rounder. The hangover this week would be “this guy better be great, and Heckert better be a genius at finding weapons later on, or this will be one long purgatory.”
Glad we didn’t do that.
This is why I say it’s 2013 playoffs or bust. Because as much as we all hate it, rookie QB with nobody to throw to with a rookie RB playing one of the hardest (on paper) schedules in the league is a somewhat valid combination of excuses for why this season isn’t going to end well (over under: 6.5 wins. anyone want the over?)
But after that, there’s literally zero room for error. You’ll have the oldest second-year QB in the league, draft high enough to probably land quality upgrades to the WR corps, year 4 of the H&H rebuild process…barring Richardson tearing his ACL in preseason and the Steelers concussing Weeden to heck and back, 2013 has to be the year to at least make the playoffs. I’m not even asking for a win (although we probably should). With this set of moves they just made, 2013 HAS to be the year.
(Complete aside…when’s the last time a team had a rookie QB/RB combo start all 16 games? Is it as rare as I think it is, or does it happen more often than I realize? )
All things being equal, the Hughes pick is still probably really bad.
I’ve definitely thought about the exact same thing. I’d be ok with that for Luck but not RGIII.
I hate to assume anything regarding this front office and free agency, but it seems to me they would have been forced to do things in free agency if they’d traded away all those picks. I guess you never know for sure though.
“Finally, we should all probably treat any pick after round two or three as, either “That seems good. Interesting. We’ll see” or “That seems bad. Interesting. We’ll see.””
I made this point in a thread before the draft, but I believe the philosophy to stay away from Free Agents paints you into a corner where you really need to rely on 4th, and certainly 3rd rounders to pan out. I’m not saying go all in on Garcon, but we had an opportunity to fill a need at RB, WR, CB, QB, OLB, or RT prior to the draft. I can make a case for why we didn’t act at some of those spots (no faith in Flynn, knowing Richardson is the guy / counting on Hardesty and Jackson being healthy, etc.) and we did gain depth at DL, bringing in Rucker. Having that many spots to fill and staying away from free agency means you have to draft really well though. We’ll see over the next 2-3 years if what they put together last weekend qualifies.
You hit on what I’ve been saying when you all but ignore free agency you put the pressure on yourself to really do well in the draft. I don’t think the Browns did well enough myself in the draft.
probably, with every agent knowing we had to sign their clients. Oh goodie, another bidding war with Dan Snyder, this time for freakin Pierre Garcon.
No, I’m good that we didn’t go there.
I don’t know what they are doing. Prior to the draft this team was still being assembled then after just 21 selections they choose a QB who from what it appears/sounds like will be starting from day one. So you change the depth chart from McCoy to Weeden and other then Richardson/Schwartz not much changed IMO. Instead of drafting guys and allowing them to learn and find a way they will be expected to come right in and carry the load. This applies to Richardson too. With the schedule they have coming up I wish ’em luck.
“Tom Heckert’s body language to me indicated that it was a frustrating weekend.”
-Do you have a link for the Heckert video?
Exactly. Heckert has put pressure on himself to hit several of those picks.
I know they didn’t get a major receiver in the draft, but Heckert did manage to fill a lot of needs in one draft. Well, if the picks turn out right that is.
I’m just glad it’s over. I’ve got a bad case of draft burn-out. Gonna metaphorically soak my head in pudding for a while.
Screw the metaphor. You should just do it. And take pictures. Post them here.
The only think I know for sure is that I feel more dejected and hopeless then before the draft…
Mmmumph.
Listening to Drennan, I heard a lot of Clevelanders starting to look on
the positive side and I really want to join them…
Besides being raw
(what rookie isn’t), was there anything said to the downsides of Hill, Jenkins or Randle?
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Tom-Heckert-and-Pat-Shurmur-Press-Conference-427/6a546e25-3eb8-4a89-b486-38c69a7bc187
heckert video
for some reason, I saw pudding and flashed back to the rice pudding they used to have at Lucky’s on E. 185th. My Grandparents used to take me there all the time, and that was the best rice pudding ever. Wow, some of that would be pretty awesome right now.
Sorry for going off the reservation
Whether Colt gets a “fair” shot or not is irrelevant. Can anyone honestly say they think he is a starting caliber QB? Whether Weeden works or not, I respect our front office for making a gutsy decision.
Hill is raw and his attitude is a little questionable. They were already running an interview of him comparing himself to Calvin Johnson and Jerry Rice on Saturday. After hearing that and remember fun-times-with-Braylon-Edwards I started having whatever you’d call the opposite of buyers remorse.
you didn’t wear a snorkle?
when you mentioned the comparing himself portion I started having flashbacks to Travis Wilson.
To me you know you had a good draft when people are complaining about the third round pick. We drafted the best non-qb in the draft, a QB with a rocket arm who at least talent-wise is lightyears ahead of McCoy, and we draft a RT who will improve what was a pathetic position last year. Beyond that we added more depth to both O and D lines. And still we complain….
I have concerns for the WR position too, but Little with Weeden is going to put up much better numbers this year and so will Massaqoui (as long as he stays healthy). Look at our roster two years ago before the draft and look at it now, ’nuff said.
Heckert never surrounded McNabb with decent receivers in Philly either. It’s a shame he’s doing the same thing here, they almost had something going with Richardson, Schwartz, and Weeden. Our WRs are a bunch of bums…
Eric Mangini was on Sports Nation today grading some draft picks… “Mr. David Veikune” grading draft picks… It was even stupider than Tim Hasselbeck, the career 3rd stringer, critiquing Pro-Bowl QBs…
If by head you mean throat, and by pudding you mean a bottle of Woodford being opened early for the Derby, and by Metaphorically you mean in reality, then I too am soaking my head in pudding
I’m really not down on this draft. Part of that comes from the fact that I simply reject the “He would have been their later” or the “We could have traded back up to get…” You have no idea what is going to happen look at the guys that were projected to go first round that fell, or got picked earlier than expected. It just takes one GM to also fall in love with a guy and you lose your shot at him.
I am scratching my head at the amount of head scratching over the Hughes pick as well. Huge caveat I would have stayed put at 67 and taken Sanu, however once they traded down I don’t have a problem with it. There were 7 Dlinemen taken within the 40 picks after the Browns took Hughes up until the end of the 4th round. I think most people here would have been lucky to name 2 of them as prospect before the draft started.
Your, and I’m kinda saying this everybody, opinion of this pick is based solely on the opinion of people’s speculation as to where Hughes should have gone. I don’t know how good he’ll be, but pretending to know “where” he should have gone and “who” would have taken him is absurd.
The great thing about this pick if you want a positive is that it will provide a pretty good chance for a “fan referendum” on the Heckert era. Heckert passed on Sanu, and Brandon Thompson to take Huges. The Bengals ended up with both those players so this year we get to see our new right tackle block their 4th round Dlineman, and see how their 3 rd receiver does, and how well our 3rd round D lineman and 4th round receiver do. Obviously its not that cut and dry, but they got to take the guys they took because we traded down. We traded down apparently to snag that extra fourth round pick to take a receiver so while Weeden is clearly the one that has Heckert’s nuts on the table, these moves will really show his late round acumen versus a division opponent.
No. A total-immersion disorder requires total-immersion therapy.
(Mmmmmm, puuddd-innggg)
Once again, pcx shows why he’s pcx.
For some incomprehensible reason, I had pudding rated higher on my board than Woodford. That was a total Hughes pick on my part. I wasn’t thinking inside the bottle.
Well done, sir.
I actually saw it as him getting frustrated with the questions, not the draft.
I think Heckert is all jacked up on Red Bull or something. Look at the video starting at 2:02, how long does it take to take a cap of off a water bottle? Hilarious!
“I don’t know how good he’ll be, but pretending to know “where” he should have gone and “who” would have taken him is absurd.”
Uhhh…thanks for that. I mean, for cripes sake, they haven’t even shown up for mini camp yet, but all the ‘experts’ know it was a bad pick.
I’m just confused on some points you made.
Colt McCoy got as fair of a shot as someone with his talent level should get. Hopefully we keep him so he can learn for a couple years but if you expect a franchise to make him the franchise guy is absurd and devote to only him that is hilarious. I don’t care whoever you have to help a quarterback on offense you either show your the man or not the man. What Colt showed is that he needs a ton of help around him and he might be able to manage the game at best. I think we should never stop looking to get one until we land our franchise superstar quarterback. Weeden is already an upgrade over McCoy even without ever snapping a down in the nfl.
T-Rich has not proved that he is the biggest impact player of the draft in our division. I hope he is and I personally think he is going to be a great player barring injury but there might be 5 or so players ahead of him to impact the afc north more than T-Rich. I’m hoping that Brandon Weeden impacts the Browns more than T-Rich. This will make T-Rich’s job so much easier if we have a good qb.
I think the reason why Heckert looks frustrated is because everyone is clearly not on the same page in management and executive level. I think it was worth the gamble to let Weeden go to #37. It makes me sick to my stomach that the Steelers grabbed Decastro and Adams because their line is loaded now. Pouncey, Foster, Gilbert, Decastro, and Adams. This is what I was talking about to do and the enemy freakin does it. Then the Ravens grab Osemele. I just disagree with the way the are going about the importance of o-linemen.
With all this being said I am glad to have Schwartz and I like Ryan Miller’s upside. I just wish they were more depth than forced starters after Lauvao goes down inevitably. I am really happy that they got d-linemen depth and realize the importance of building up the line. Cleveland needs so much so let’s wait and give these guys a chance for a couple more years so we can get some stability here.
After seeing Mangini on espn it makes me even more upset that Lerner handed the team over to him a couple years ago. He is terrible at evaluating and he has no ability to understand even the conversation going on at the time. I heard him say that the David Harris pick wasn’t even his idea. The Revis pick was good but he coached defensive backs and he was the highest rated cb and they needed one. Look at most of his picks and they are huge busts. Then on top of it he is a rat and now realizes that he was Bellichick’s gopher and nothing more and lucked into 2 jobs because of the rivalry with the Jets and the incompetence of Lerner.
Gutsy. McCoy is terrible. We had to wait a year because Holmgren hand picked him and Heckert was scared to hurt his feelings on such a ridiculous pick.
It’s not he was hurt for the combine. I actually like the pick because we need depth for run stopping linemen to rest Rubin and Taylor.
Yeah but Woodford had that terrible combine, somehow scored sausage on the Wonderlic, got tased three times that night his hand repeatedly “fell” on that cheerleaders face, and had Eric Mangini raving that “Woodford could have the best 2nd round value as a receiver”.
Pudding had a higher floor but a lower ceiling, even though it was a two-way star in chocolate and vanilla, its tapioca abilities were questioned.
In the end, its not a right or wrong decision its a – boy do I hate to keep using this word – value decision.Do you have the integrity to stand by Woodford throughout the inevitable ups and downs or do the highs not outweigh the steady if unspectacular productive value you get from pudding.
The real question in a situation like this is do you value someone’s production (Woodford) or someone who produces value (pudding)?
Think you hit it on the head with the paragraph about Heckert. I know everyone’s griping about this pick or that pick, but I think that ultimately this draft was minor disappointment not because of the actions of the front office but because of circumstance. If Kendall Wright falls past the Titans, with the Bengals already having traded their pick to the Pats, then the Browns take him at 22, probably still get Weeden at 37 and maybe move into the back of the 2nd to still nab Schwartz. Everyone is happy with that draft, including Heckert. But it just so happened that the Titans took a WR when there were a lot of other directions they could have gone. Even had the Browns wanted to trade, only team that’s even a remote possibility is the Bears. I could run down why each team in the 5 spots above that was set on the guy they got and would have been too worried to let that guy fall a couple more spots, but I’ll save that. Doubt the Bears would have been interested in a 3rd round pick and 22 for the 19th pick, but even if there were, don’t you take the risk that the Titans go defense there if you’re Heckert? Sometimes you gamble, sometimes you don’t. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I’m not ecstatic about the results of this draft, but I feel like the Browns made highly defensible calls at each pick. We’ll see if they pan out on the field.
Agree with others that free agency was a time to fill a few more needs. Hope Craig is right that something is coming on the WR front, though I don’t really see what that would be. Willing to be surprised.
I’m probably one of the few that thought this front office did a heck of a job in the draft last weekend… B+++ in my book. The only thing that I would have done (being that they took Weeden) would have been taking Blackmon at #4, Weeden at #22 and RB D. Martin at #37, in my opinion that would have secured a definate weapon for Weeden and not only got a strong RB, but another weapon for returning kicks and a well rounded back, maybe not AS strong of a kid as Richardson, but pretty damn close and not too far behind IMO!
I’m willing to give this
@The_Real_Shamrock:disqus
I’m willing to give this Travis Benjamin kid the benefit of the doubt and fully support him, BUT I HONESTLY think that H&H better get a decent VETERIN WR in either a trade or free agency or it’s gonna be another long and frustrating season to say the least! I understand that things can happen in a draft that can be frustrating and unexpected, but IT DIDN’T TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST to know that the Browns had one of the worst IF not THE worst recieving corps in the NFL last season and they DEFINAYELY WITHOUT A DOUBT need to make it their main priority in next year’s draft to get a couple of top wideouts.
Seneca has no trade value. He was two years younger when we traded for him and only had to give up a 6th or 7th I believe. I would hope Weeden has better trade value than that!
It’s a terrible situation to put a RB in. An offense with no proven weapons in the best defensive conference in the league. I think ESPN actually hit the nail on the head with their best and worst marriages article, in how the poor kid is put in this terrible situation.
Nothing is going to change if Shurmur can’t figure out how to get the team prepared. Did Colt ever look as bad under Mangini as he did EVERY GAME under Shurmur? Nope. That’s why I think Colt is getting a raw deal, especially by the fans and media. Why point so many fingers at the QB who had no running game, no receivers, and a coach who had never been a head coach before, with no offensive coordinator? Need someone to blame that isn’t the FO? Just saying, when he’s throwing 50 times a game, something is wrong. But, I guess if he completed 40 of them to the receivers who couldn’t break away from the corner of a room, shame, get someone else! Makes sense.
? it wasn’t until Heckert took over as player personnell that Philly drafted great WRs in Maclin and DeSean
Excellent post. The draft is also a product of this regime’s lack of interest in free agency. Through FA, we could have filled a hole at RT or WR and had more flexibility to strengthen ourselves in the draft. Instead, we have missed another opportunity to draft a strong weapon at WR.
This is the best conversation that has ever taken place on WFNY.
By the way, I still have Bulleit much higher on my charts than Woodford. It’s relatively unknown, from a small school, but has a great motor and all of the intangibles. It will be a starter for years to come. You should check out the film.
McCoy played well enough two years ago that many thought with some help, he could develop into a good QB. Instead of giving him weapons, we traded away what could have been Julio Jones. We did not improve an injury ravaged OL. We stood pat with a corps of WRs that led the league in drops. And H&H contributed to the HIllis mess that left us with virtually nothing at WR. So I’m not sure how you can say he got a fair shot. Factor in a new coach who made many mistakes, and a new offense. McCoy’s play is more of an indictment on Holmgren, Heckert and Shurmur, than it is on his talent as a QB.
Not that it will change anything, but I completely agree with your breakdown of how things played out.
Please point out to me a over 25 QB who had a successful NFL career. Henson all over again with Weedon. Oh and the super bowl champs finished DEAD LAST in rushing last year. Who was the leading rusher for the Packers the year before that? It’s not that these picks are so bad it’s just that the front office acts like no other. They seemingly have no interest in value or in NFL context. In other words, they act as if they are “the smartest guys in the room.” we all know how that usually ends…
Roger Staubach, Warren Moon and Kurt Warner were all over 25 when they started their NFL careers. I think Steve Young was 25 when he took his first snap for Tampa Bay. Most folks would agree that these four had rather successful NFL careers.