NFL Free Agency: Browns will not pursue Peyton Manning
March 8, 2012Byron Bucks the “Timeout Rule” En Route to Win Over Nuggets
March 8, 2012One point I tried to make on Tuesday night when I was on 92.3 the Fan with Joe Lull and Pete from Cleveland Frowns was that my excitement over RG3 is not a guarantee that he will pan out. In the end I am one part dreamer and three parts realist or pragmatist. I know full well that there is a chance that RG3 will fail in the NFL for any number of reasons. He could break down physically like we saw with Courtney Brown. He could fold mentally or let outside pressures get the best of him like I think Vince Young did. Tim Couch will tell you that he could even end up failing due to factors largely outside of the player’s control. Obviously, my excitement over Robert Griffin III is rooted in the fact that I think those risks are minimal, but I’d be lying if I said they weren’t possible.
Robert Griffin III is a QB that can run and escape the pocket, so why wouldn’t he be susceptible to the injuries that we’ve seen Michael Vick sustain over the years? It is my perception that Michael Vick had a little too much Barry Sanders in him, stopping and starting and juking. Mike Vick was the closest thing to a video game player in real life that we’ve ever seen because you can imagine him actually running the width of the field three times fooling defenders. The difference being, video games aren’t real people made of bones and flesh that get hurt for real.
With RG3, I see some escapability and running ability, but I don’t see that Vick-ian quality with the utter refusal to just take a sack sometimes. Getting out of the pocket is a good thing sometimes, but if you try to make everyone miss you eventually put yourself in a position where a backside defender can catch up and more than likely in a susceptible position to a violent tackle or hit. I hope my perception of RG3 as more of a passer negates some of the “running-quarterback-injury” fears. The rest will have to be handled by coaching. Hopefully the Browns will bring Kenny Lofton in for a day to work with all Browns QBs on the finer points of sliding. (None of that head-first stuff though, Kenny.)
As for the mental breakdown risks or maturity risks, there isn’t any way to negate that completely. With that in mind, all you can do is watch interviews to get a sense that this kid has his head on straight. Everything I’ve seen with Griffin leads me to believe that he is well-prepared to handle the pressure of being a starting NFL quarterback. At least that none of the warning bells went off in my head when I saw him answering questions.
But, what will it be like to have a first-year Robert Griffin at the helm for the Browns? Let’s all be brutally honest. It could be pretty ugly at times. It always is for rookies. There will be some confounding series of three-and-outs which will have you questioning why the Browns are continually “starting over.” Robert Griffin will be made to look stupid on more than one occasion. It is to be expected because he’s never had Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed goading him into an interception as he faces them twice a year each. You just hope that those series and moments are off-set by the glimpses of brilliance that will hopefully show plenty of promise for the future.
If Robert Griffin III becomes a Cleveland Brown this off-season the Browns absolutely must let him play from the very beginning, short of a Colt McCoy miracle. Colt McCoy might even end up looking better and more prepared in the pre-season. He should as he got a lot of experience this season and will be very familiar with the concepts going into his second year with Pat Shurmur as head coach. Unless McCoy lights it up like a Drew Brees / Peyton Manning hybrid, Robert Griffin III must be the choice.
To let McCoy play would be a mistake even if it means an extra win or two in 2012. If the Browns trade up and draft Robert Griffin III it is with the mindset that the ceiling on Colt McCoy’s career is just too low to bet on long-term.
The Robert Griffin III experience so far has been an enlightening one. Even if he doesn’t end up a Brown or if he ends up being a bust, I am still confident it is an important revelation. I’ve been too afraid to dream big because I was afraid of failure. You can only get so far by managing risks and building slowly and deliberately. At some point the Browns need to decide that the foundation is there and go big on some skill players.
Dare to dream big. The safe play is already in your hands with Colt McCoy.
110 Comments
Nope. I would hardly condone “pushing in all our chips.” I just think the Browns are in the driver’s seat to go 2 or 3 picks for 1 and get a top-flight QB prospect. Also, how many draft picks do the Browns have and how many open roster spots do they have? At some point, trading up makes more sense than accumulating picks.
The Browns don’t have perfect depth, but no team ever does.
Boy, you all better hope RG3 blows. With all the skepticism and navel-studying going on here, I’d love to see all of you eat crow in week 8 when he has more TD passes at that point that Colt had all year last year.
Yes, there is risk with a rookie QB. I would be a fool not to admit to that. But there is nothing waiting at the end of the McCoy rainbow. Getting RG3 would make us relevant almost instantly; we’d get some prime-time games and if the coaching staff can get their noses out of their rears and design an offense around his skills, look out.
1. Wow, really? Did you watch the 2011 season? Did you see Shurmur’s “game plan?”
Please re-watch the season.
My point is anyone is better than Wayne at this point. He’s old and has a year or 2 left. Garcon is average at best like I wrote. I never gave props to Garcon. They played from behind every game and their whole offense is based off pass. Garcon is just an average player that needs to have a better receiver around him to even show up. Garcon is a good receiver at best. Is this clear enough.
Matt Flynn.
I’d love nothing more than for the Browns to draft RG3 and for him to throw a boatload of TDs. I wouldn’t even be eating crow because I’m not saying that it won’t happen. I’m not anti-RG3. I’m anti-annointing him as the savior of the Browns before he throws a single pass in the NFL. I’m also anti-assuming Colt McCoy can’t improve and become a franchise-caliber QB. I’m not even guaranteeing that it would happen… I’m just not sure how anyone can assume this isn’t even a possibility. I just think the stance you are taking on McCoy, RG3, Shurmur, etc is just way extreme. Both situations regarding RG3 being awesome and Colt McCoy improving drastically are reasonably feasible.
Yeah if it is like a 3rd or 4th rounder at most to move up 2 spots. But to give up multiple 1st rounders with our current roster would not be good. We need multiple positions and if we hand RG3 a talentless team than what’s it all for. We have to get our qb but are you saying you are sold on RG3 as a guaranteed superstar. If you draft RG3 then you have to start him Peyton style the 1st year which I am for. And also as far of getting too many picks through trades there is never a shortage of talent coming in and out the way that free agency is now. Getting multiple draft picks between the picks of 18-60 are critical to your teams success. If you see the turnover on players now you can never have too many important draft picks between those picks. With injuries and free agency I highly doubt you could ever get enough good draft picks(18-60). I’m not suggesting to corner the market on 6th or 7th round picks but I would love to see a deep roster where we can even afford to lose players than to have this weak one right now. With this being said I am a huge RG3 fan and want to get him. There just has to be a cost to it because Atlanta got worse trading up and they don’t have a 1st round pick this year so you have to be careful because we can’t afford any setbacks.
Haha, read what you wrote. What exactly ARE you doing, then? You’re so clear on all of the things you’re not doing that its a little neurotic and a little like you’re setting yourself up not to be wrong…wait, where have I heard that before?
We get it, you’re not hanging your hat anywhere out of the fear of possibly being wrong. You don’t win championships that way. BLANK or get off the pot. I say all in for RG3 and if you’re wrong, then at least you tried to ignite this dead engine of a team.
Also, see last season for any “improvement” Shurmur made over 16 weeks and tell me if I’m too far off on his “abilities.”
How would you guys feel about just signing Flynn while everyone is scrambling over themselves to get Manning? We get Flynn, we draft two impact players in the 1st round, and we’ll have a QB that we can win with now and in the future.
But that’s the thing. We’re all working on the assumption of what the Rams want the trade market to be: multiple No. 1s, extra picks, etc.
But we won’t know what the actual trade market is until, well, the trade actually goes through. If free agency puts Manning and Flynn on two of the teams that need quarterbacks, that shrink the list of realistic trade partners for the Rams.
If it ends up being that the Browns can get the Rams to accept No. 4, No. 22 and a low-round pick to move up, that seems like a no-brainer for the Browns. The only real loss would be the opportunity to use that No. 22 pick, which if Griffin turns out to be the guy then in 2-3 years no one will care that the Browns gave up that pick.
C-Bus Kevin brought up an excellent point the other day that bears repeating. Contrary to the conventional “wisdom,” the Rams do not have all that much leverage.
The Rams aren’t going to draft RG, and everybody knows it. So why should any other team give St. Louis some ridiculous draft swap? Just lowball them, and if they don’t like it, they’re stuck with both RG and Bradford.
It could be argued that the Rams are sweating that they’ll get hardly anything for trading down.
That’s the whole thing. As long as someone doesn’t get him for a 3rd or 4th rounder but that team could only be Washington because they won’t trade down any further than 6th pick for that. I don’t know what the correct answer is but giving up the #22 pick is a big deal. Cleveland’s roster is thin with talent. Most likely we won’t sign anyone in free agency. So giving up that #22 pick means that we are giving up a chance to have an all pro player. I don’t think it’s a smart business move to give up any more than a 3rd round pick to move up 2 spots.
Yeah, those highly touted youngsters are a dime a dozen anyway; another one will float along next year, hodie-hum, hodie-hum.
Matt Flynn played 2 good NFL games. He was mediocre at best in college – there is a reason he was drafted late. RGIII is far more talented.
Matt Flynn played 2 good NFL games. He was mediocre at best in college – there is a reason he was drafted late. RGIII is far more talented.
But has played in 2 fewer NFL games.
cmon now. mike leach raved about his playbook fitting on 2 pages. same one that was used in Houston and Baylor. maybe Briles made it 3 pages.
yes, our WCO system is vastly more complex than that even the one employed last year (which I agree was stripped down)
RGIII won’t be extending drives running up the middle (i hope for his sake). I agree that Cam has a huge ceiling. we’re arguing semantics at this point on him and that’s all.
if RGIII has the rookie year that Cam had noone in their right mind would complain.
He has proven that he can succeed when surrounded with a talented team. RGIII has proven nothing. Every team is focused on Manning and RGIII, now would be the perfect time to swipe Flynn.
sorry, I don’t follow. if Wayne is old and anyone is better than him, then who was the better receiver around Garcon that helped him “show up” last year?
unless you re-worded it since then, I just misread it. sorry.
name-drop mission completed. you receive 10 double-O 40 points.
you know who else was mediocre at best in college and drafted late? tom brady.
not sure why people care about draft slot once a player hits the field. Romo, Warner, and Brady are the best recent examples but there are plenty more.
yes, there’s risk. but, in my opinion, the risk is less than giving up multiple high picks for RGIII (and our #4 or the #2 pick counts in that equation too)
the only problem is that we “can’t” talk to Flynn until the 13th and Peyton supposedly will decide before then. we’ll see what happens though (and since we’re friendly with GB’s staff as-is Miami, I think we both have been in contact with Flynn for weeks now)
take a look at the highlights of the Detroit game. yeah, it was the Detroit defense, but there’s alot of deep completions in that game.
I’d be surprised if we didn’t already talk a bit with his agent. I’d be disappointed if the Browns didn’t participate in some tampering.
My point is garcon is better because he is younger and has more years left. Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne were doubled almost every play. Wayne is still a great receiver for 1 or 2 more years. Garcon might play for 10 more years. Garcon is a good receiver not a superstar. I can’t make it any more clear than this.
I’m with you steve-o. We’re going to screw up our quarterback decision, so might as well do the screw-up where we give up the fewest draft picks.
if you insist. i do agree garcon is not a superstar.
We already have 3 backup QBs 🙂
What about him being a Quaterback for the Kansas City CHIEFS?
I would say they honestly have only 5 maybe 6 roster spots that should be guaranteed. Thomas, Haden, Jackson, Dawson, Rubin, Taylor, Sheard, maybe Cribbs. Outside of those guys I don’t see talent that should have “reserved parking” in Berea. I would also say that not only do the Browns not have perfect depth they have no depth to speak of. They can’t field 4 starting d lineman, 2 safeties, a second corner, a full offensive line, or receiving corp, let alone have depth at any position.
As far as pushing our chips in, I hope your draft source is in charge of St. Louis because everything I’ve read says its going to be more than 2-3 picks to move up. I think swapping 2/4 the 22 possibly next years 1st or at least a 2nd and 3rd is the start of a conversation. If giving up anywhere from 3-5 1st or 2nd round picks isn’t pushing all your chips in I don’t know what is. If you make that commitment and he busts the franchise is set back at least 3-4 years. If you make that commitment and he thrives you are competing for a playoff spot next year. I don’t know how this move can be anything but boom/bust.
I think by “roster” spots you meant starting spots.
we have alot more guys that are guaranteed ’12 roster spots. Ward (and almost definitely starting), Skrine, Lauvao/Pinkston(1 starting, 1 depth), Watson(starting if healthy), Moore, Little(likely starting), etc.
Oh don’t fret, people will complain. Just like you did, earlier, about his post-week four performance which far exceeded Colt McCoy’s week 1-16 performance.
Yeah, the whole thing is pretty garbled now that I look at it. After 10 hours of watching people prove how poorly they handle the consumption of alcohol, I tend towards speaking/writing in Jaberwocky.
I’m nothing, if not a man of my word.
I know you’re kidding, but there is one or two every year. Off the top of my head… 2011 Cam Newton, 2010 Sam Bradford, 2009 Matt Stafford, 2009 Mark Sanchez, 2008 JaMarcus Russell, 2007 Vince Young, 2006 Matt Ryan, Alex Smith, Mike Vick, David Carr, Tim Couch… every single year there’s a quarterback or two who are highly touted by all of the talking heads. Some pan out and some don’t. Another one absolutely will float along next year, and the year after, and the year after. If your point is that you love RG3 more than most of those guys and for some reason you expect him to be better than those guys, then okay. If your point is that he’s an extremely rare talent, I would disagree. FYI, next year’s Ryan Tannehill/Jake Cutler big mover is going to be Virginia Tech’s Logan Thomas. 6’6″ with crazy arm strength and athleticism, and I think his accuracy, around 60% last year, will improve this year.
Thanks for the shout out. I think I got called a simpleton for expressing that opinion.
If it becomes near unanimous opinion that RGIII is the second best player available in the draft, then the Rams have tons of leverage…if anyone actually believes they want him. Someone could still overpay for the #2 spot (looks at Washington), but really, Minnesota and Cleveland actually have the most leverage here, and if Minny likes Ponder, then it’s just Cleveland. Imagine the bounty Cleveland could get from Washington if RGIII is still there at #4.
I am a lifetime Browns fan, and I do not understand why any fan of the Browns would be against drafting this guy. Even if it costs us the #4 and #22 overall, along with a #2/3/4 this or next year, you need to pull the trigger. For those that say we should give Colt one more year and then “draft a QB next year if it doesn’t work out” simply do not understand the amazing opportunity sitting in front of us.
Robert Griffin III could be a super star at QB. He is in the mold of the “next generation” QB that we saw Vick play as in ’10 and Newton in ’11. A big, fast QB with a magnificent arm. Have you guys seen RGIII’s deep ball? It is a thing of beauty.. something we have not had since we came back into the league.
The guy is not only physically gifted, but his parents both serve our country and he has grown up very disciplined. Go watch the Heisman Trophy presentation and tell me RGIII will EVER get in trouble off the field. He is a delight to watch and listen to. His smile lights up a room, he is charismatic, funny, and smart. He will have no off-the-field issues and will be one of the top “faces of the NFL” for the next 10-15 years.
WE NEED THIS GUY. We need an exciting player. He has an unlimited ceiling. I cannot see him being a “bust”. Even if he does not live up to the hype, he will not be a scrub. He’ll be a solid QB one way or the other. His legs are a “secret” weapon and he is QB first, and runner second. That is what you want in the final minutes of an AFC Championship Game or Super Bowl. You want Robert Griffin III.
To those who believe trading picks will be “giving up the future”, this is false. Due to the amazing trade of Julio Jones last year, we are in a PERFECT position to draft our franchise signal caller, which is what you need to win championships in the NFL. We have an EXTRA #1 pick this year and an EXTRA fourth rounder. If you break it down (and we trade the #4 and #22 overall for RGIII), last year’s trade works out like this:
The rights to Julio Jones at #6 for..Phil Taylor (future Pro Bowl DT, everyone is raving about him)Greg Little (able to combine extra pick from Atlanta to move up and grab him)Robert Griffin III
Sounds like a pretty big no brainer if you ask me.
It is one thing if we had one first rounder this year and gave up this year’s pick, our 2013 #1, and 2014 #1, but we aren’t. We won’t have to. We are not mortgaging our future if we trade up for RGIII.. we are making our future 10 times brighter than if we sit on our hands and let a (potential) future super star go to another team.
Robert Griffin III needs to be a Cleveland Brown. And he will look damn good wearing that uniform, too.
good god I am sick of all the RG3 these are the browns so called fans that think giving up 4,22 and 37 is worth it. wow get a FREAKING clue ONE person does not make the team better!! simple as that use these picks and get more quality players point blank….and for these commentators who are supposed to know football I wonder if they are just plain dreamers !!
all I said was he didn’t put up “monster” numbers. far different than complaining and we agree on him about 90% of the way.
I wish I spoke Jaberwocky. I’d scare that Alice right back through the looking glass.
This notion that there’s no talent on this team is sort of annoying. Yes our record sucked, but we hung in almost every game. We lost several games due to special teams break downs. We don’t have the best receivers but with a good QB throwing on time and in rhythm they will look much better. Also our line is actually pretty excellent. Let Pashos get healthy or bring in a new RT and that’s well set. Our RBs are fine, even Obi had a couple of really good games. Resign Hillis or take a 4th round guy and move on.
Wow, why even bother?
Wow, why even bother?
It doesn’t matter if you get three players or one. If the three players suck, you’re better of with just the one really good one. If the one really good one sucks, then try again.
Yes, all of this
do you have a better chance at getting a really good player if you have 1 pick or 3?
Great point, totally agree with Sal and mgbode
Great article! It sums up perfectly my opinion on it.