While We’re Waiting… Looking for a little help, the best things about being an Indians fan and your new #1 RB
March 15, 2012Browns Need To Stay The Course….(And Tank 2012)
March 15, 2012I’ll buy that it was too expensive to bring back Eric Steinbach at his exorbitant cap number. I’ll also buy that Peyton Hillis is more trouble than he is worth. Yes, even at a one-year $3 million price tag. In all honesty, neither one of those players did anything to help the Browns win a game last year. O.K., that’s not 100% true. Hillis did play in one game last year in which the Browns were victorious against Indianapolis, but you know what I mean. I’m a reasonable man and I’ll buy that the Browns would be better off spending that $9-ish plus million elsewhere. But, today I’ll admit it is really tough to swallow.
Yesterday there were rumors of the Browns trying to trade for Ben Tate. That’s really exciting. That is more exciting than a one-year deal for Peyton Hillis for $3 million. In Tate, the Browns would have a potential top half of the league NFL starting running back to put in front of Brandon Jackson, Montario Hardesty, Chris Ogbonnaya and whoever else ends up being in the mix at running back. (I’m still hopeful for Armond Smith, but I know that’s kind of a personal lottery ticket kind of situation.)
The point today though is that the Browns do not even have Peyton Hillis let alone Ben Tate. The Browns don’t have Eric Steinbach or anyone even rumored to replace him.
I hope for the best for Montario Hardesty because I’ve been there. I’ve had both my ACLs replaced and I’ve come back from them to do athletic things in high school. I don’t know what it’s like to test a surgically repaired knee against NFL levels of talent, but I do know that even when you think you’re good after six months, it really takes a year to 18 months to really feel anything resembling 100%. So, I do have some hope for Montario Hardesty. Just not enough to count on him being one of the only options at running back whose name has never appeared on the waiver wire or with the words “practice squad” next to his name.
I’m fine with the Frostee Rucker signing. It is only $8 million guaranteed for a guy that is hopefully a late bloomer capable of helping to stop the run and make Browns fans forget Jayme Mitchell. I’m also fine with the Browns not overpaying a career #2 receiver in Pierre Garcon no matter how much I happen to like the guy. Signing Laurent Robinson to a 5-year $32.5 million deal isn’t a good idea either. The 7-year $35 million deal that Donte’ Stallworth signed with the Browns is proof enough of that.
This is a salary cap league and often the best deals are the ones you don’t make. But if you take that philosophy too far, it is a hell of an excuse to never do anything at all. It’s too early in this process to call the Browns failures, but the fear is real and it isn’t totally unfounded for Browns fans. The Browns will get better in the draft, but the question is how much better considering the Browns were a 4-win team this past season. The Browns should get better organically as young teams tend to do. How much better is a big, scary question mark.
“Big scary question mark,” is a pretty good way to describe the Cleveland Browns right now, huh?
113 Comments
It would give us a distinct advantage
whoa, now I know why everyone has looked at me that way when I say Kansas, like they’re waiting for a punchline. Being corrected protected behind internet anonymity = THE BEST.
Your lack of reading comprehension is astonishing. This was far from any kind of spin job.
I completely get it. I’ve been a Browns fan since my dad took me to my first game in 1979. I’ve spilled plenty of tears, beers, and dollars (in that order, as I’ve aged) over this team. More than some, less than others; but I’m completely in this, too.
It’s not faith or optimism that I hold so much as a general acceptance of reality of the situation, and how it applies to me. I can tilt at windmills, spit in the wind, and scream at the top of my lungs until my vocal chords bleed, but in the end, it doesn’t get me, or the Browns, anywhere.
I cannot believe that the men in charge just don’t care about, or understand the context of, what they do for a living – a living to which they attach their names, reputations, and fortunes. They don’t do everything that I think they should do, but what then should I have them do? Turn over the reins of the organization to the masses – who can’t agree whether Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson should be the guy that leads us out of our wilderness of pain and long-suffering? Demand that they tell us everything that they’re thinking and thereby open themselves to the senseless bleating of half of those masses who are certain that they are wrong (but are almost just as certainly wrong themselves), not to mention the cutthroat world of the other 31 teams in the NFL?
From where I sit, it looks like the Browns have done everything in the last 20 years – but what they’re doing now – to try to build a winner. It’s not faith or optimism, but I am willing to give them a shot at fully succeeding or failing. They’ve done neither yet. There may be a time for me to become enraged, or to give up, or to let my cynicism rule, but not yet.
Basically no one has a clue what their plan is or how they plan to fill these holes but we really have no choice but to stick with the men in charge. I mean if we run them out of town we will have way more holes than this to fill because the new regime will give most of these guys the boot. Its a pretty helpless feeling.
I think it’d cost vastly more. Young, affordable, under contract, proven baller. Plus, the guy was a 2nd round pick. Who gives up a 2nd round pick who has shown himself to be a baller for another 2nd rounder? What would the Texans hope to get with it? Another RB who can put up a 1000 yards? I could see if he was some undrafted FA who came out of nowhere and had some question marks, but Tate has always been prime talent.
But it looks like it’s not going to happen anyway. John McClain of the Chronicle tweeted that Tate isn’t going anywhere and McClain is usually right about the Texans.
I was never good at math, but I tend to look at this type of situation – where you potentially have to give up just one draft pick, instead of multiple picks – as a zero-sum, or slightly ne positive, move. To me, getting Tate for the #37 would be the equivalent of getting a first-round draft pick with a couple of years of experience. It’s like drafting a veteran starter with a second round pick. I’d do it every day.
Craig spun this one? what? read those last 2 paragraphs. he says he understands the panic, that he’s not sure how the Browns are going to get to being competitive with what we have seen so far, and that the fear is real and not unfounded.
keep pounding your talking points though.
“Big scary question mark,” is a pretty good way to describe the Cleveland Browns” = spin?
Would you place Mario Williams in that #1 group?
the Giants did play 12 starters on defense in the Superbowl. are we copying their strategy?
Good points. That tempers a bit of what I just wrote.
I guess I just don’t need those bluffs, either, and don’t think that their presence or absence means, in the actual confines of NFL board rooms, what we think it means.
[Oh, and I love the cavalry.]
I think when they ripped our hearts out in ’95, I got a glimpse behind the curtain of the NFL as a business, and I’ll never love it as much again. Perhaps part of that is growing up and realizing there really are more important things.
But if the Ownership is not careful, they are liable to create more apathetic fans such as myself, who may not have the game on every Sunday when their sons are growing up, and by then it may be too late, and the Browns could leave again…except this time not come back after 3 years.
Definitely agree. I think ’95 is the whole reason that I feel the way that I do right now. Whereas before it was something personal to me, now I see it primarily as a rough business (that I’m not a part of), with a small, but important, personal component.
The ownership indeed has to be very careful. I want my son to love the Browns, and right now he only does because his dad does. He’s starting to think for himself, though, and that can be dangerous for the ownership.
At the same time, I think the fans also need to be careful. I believe that it is possible for the fanbase to create such an environment that no ownership would find any logical merit in keeping a team here, thus inadvertently and unintentionally recreating ’95. Sometimes I wonder if the silence from the FO isn’t the first rumblings of this backlash of frustration – and I honestly couldn’t blame them much. Unfortunately, in the world of the NFL, the teams and owners hold all of the leverage. The fans have none. They’ll make their billions in any place that they choose.
For the draft position he was taken, i agree and retract my earlier comment on Little.
Wow, I have been amazed by you before; but this one takes the cake.
I was using the antequated 45 man roster. you think every team only plays their starters, especially in week 17 and the playoff?
Hope for the best, wait for sky to fall
I think you are right, it is all a bunch of sound an fury signifying nothing. But since we cant count on actual wins to make us fell better for a while, I’d love reading a scouting report on our new RT who is 6’7″, is 325 of all “good” weight, and will have to wait to be shaved before his 40 is timed, because his sasquatch-ian mane might cause some wind resistance.
I don’t think you need to spend a “premium draft pick” on a RB and hopefully Frostee can be serviceable working off one on one match-ups all year (with Sheard and the interior guys eating up the help from backs).
Add my (and maybe my alone) willingness to give Colt another year, I think we have 4 “FIX NOW!” spots. RT, WR, FS and OLB. RT and WR are generally first round pick fixes, where as FS and OLBs tend to be more 2nd and 3rd round guys, unless they are total studs.
My point being if we hit on our 2 first rounders and a second, then we aren’ that far off. Especially if Young can play better at FS with Ward back.
Then again this may be classic Cleveland fan optimism lol
b-b-but they tell us they don’t read the papers or pay attention to talk radio.
That would be a horribly ironic situation that could only happen in Cleveland. Team honchos for years say they don’t pay attention to fans cries or media, therefore not “caving in to the pressure” to make wild moves to improve team eventually moving team because fans and media pressure about team not improving becomes too much to bear.
More likely we will just have to fund a stadium in 10 or 15 years, or the probably will leave
b-b-but they tell us they don’t read the papers or pay attention to talk radio.
That would be a horribly ironic situation that could only happen in Cleveland. Team honchos for years say they don’t pay attention to fans cries or media, therefore not “caving in to the pressure” to make wild moves to improve team eventually moving team because fans and media pressure about team not improving becomes too much to bear.
More likely we will just have to fund a stadium in 10 or 15 years, or the probably will leave
would YOU trade this guy for anything less than the #22? i wouldn’t. and i don’t expect the Texans to, either.
would YOU trade this guy for anything less than the #22? i wouldn’t. and i don’t expect the Texans to, either.
would YOU trade this guy for anything less than the #22? i wouldn’t. and i don’t expect the Texans to, either.
yeah, sorry, sometimes we agree, but I dont see Craig doing any spinning on this one.
Also I think I disagree with you on one fundamental thing- I think Heckert and Holmgren want to succeed, and are trying like hell to succeed, but are starting to fall victim to the “prisoner of our circumstances” which is leading to not much happening at all. I dont think they are simply chasing checks and laughing all the way to the bank. The owner, on the other hand- I think that’s exactly what he is doing. I doubt he really does care, so long as the Cleveland Browns Football Organization, LLC is turning a profit.
Legacies are important to career football people. not so much for silver spoon billionaires
yeah, sorry, sometimes we agree, but I dont see Craig doing any spinning on this one.
Also I think I disagree with you on one fundamental thing- I think Heckert and Holmgren want to succeed, and are trying like hell to succeed, but are starting to fall victim to the “prisoner of our circumstances” which is leading to not much happening at all. I dont think they are simply chasing checks and laughing all the way to the bank. The owner, on the other hand- I think that’s exactly what he is doing. I doubt he really does care, so long as the Cleveland Browns Football Organization, LLC is turning a profit.
Legacies are important to career football people. not so much for silver spoon billionaires
yeah, sorry, sometimes we agree, but I dont see Craig doing any spinning on this one.
Also I think I disagree with you on one fundamental thing- I think Heckert and Holmgren want to succeed, and are trying like hell to succeed, but are starting to fall victim to the “prisoner of our circumstances” which is leading to not much happening at all. I dont think they are simply chasing checks and laughing all the way to the bank. The owner, on the other hand- I think that’s exactly what he is doing. I doubt he really does care, so long as the Cleveland Browns Football Organization, LLC is turning a profit.
Legacies are important to career football people. not so much for silver spoon billionaires
That’s a much tougher question, for sure. I probably wouldn’t, but if I was the Browns, I might be convinced. Depends on what happens with the #4. Tough call.
Well, you don’t have to read papers or pay attention to talk radio to assess your fans.
Besides, I’m sure they’re glued to WFNY.
He wasn’t talking about you, really. He was quoting me. He’s just (impotently) picking a fight.
Max, that’s exactly how it’s supposed to work. That’s what every dynasty team has done to stay competitive. The Steelers just let go of several older play makers (Hines Ward being one of them). The problem is our management (starting with Mangini) started at ground zero, whereas the Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, etc. Have been working in this design for years and their win column shows it’s value.
I don’t want to be the Redskins.
I don’t want to be the Cowboys.
I want a team that is consistently retiring and drafting new starters, and I believe Heckert and Holmgren can do that.
Most of us know the plan, but we don’t like it because it will take such a long time. And after years of patience the plan may not succeed or the plan makers may be gone. The reason we want to build through the draft is obvious. The players who bring the biggest bang for the buck are those drafted under their first contract. Those who bring the least are free agents. Here is how the numbers stack up for our current plan.
1) The average NFL career last 3-1/2 years. The average career for a decent starter is 9-1/2 years.
2) In year two we have roughly four or five (if you count FB) long term pieces on offense in place, and six long term pieces on defense. Of those, five (or six) were drafted. Heckert’s track record indicates that he can draft 2-1/2 starters per year, which is actually pretty good.
3) With 22 starters needed (25 if you count slot wr’s/db’s and 3rd down rb’s), it would take a team nine to ten years to accumalte a full roster of starters through the draft, assuming we always draft well and no one gets injured or leaves in FA. The draft can then be used effectively to replenish the aging talent.
4) Based on the math, we should approach that sweet spot in about five or six more years if everything goes perfectly.
The problem with this, besides how long it will take, is that players do sometimes get injured and leave in FA, and early draft picks sometimes do not work out (Hardesty). Also, filling the need of starting QB may take multiple picks either for a single player or for the several QB’s that we try out before getting the right one. Free agency is available to fill these gaps. Ignoring it insures that the gaps remain, and further extends the build through the draft only plan.
um, they were all essentially rookies last year being year 1 in new system with no offseason, etc. we’ll see how they do this year. but it’s rare that young dudes come in and are bonafide studs in year 1 or 2.. that’s what building through the draft is all about, building chemistry with a core group of guys and they develop together.. we’ll see how they do this year..
With a name like Garry Owen, I sure hope you like the cavalry.
Too bad, it’s what we’re going to get.
Good catch! It warms me Irish heart, particularly on this fine soft day, whenever someone makes the connection.
Is my avatar too obvious?
But our mop DOESN’T work fine.
definitely. and I would have paid that contract to have him a Brown. actually, surprised he signed as low as he did (though he got 1/2 of it guaranteed – good for him)
Oh man, I totally glossed over the avatar. Would’ve been obvious, if I’d ever noticed it.
Garry Owen just stuck with me after I read “We Were Soldiers Once And Young” about the 7th Cav in Vietnam. They talk about Garry Owen a lot in it as I recall.
One of the finest military history books ever written.
This is way, way off topic, but it’s story time!
Do you recall LT Rick Rescorla from the book? When I was in Army Officer Candidate School, they told us each to select one junior officer from the Army’s history to serve as a role model for us. I chose LT Rescorla.
I graduated OCS and was commissioned a 2LT on 9 September 2001. Two days later, Rick Rescorla died in WTC Tower 2, heading back upstairs to escort more of his co-workers down to safety. He’d already made the 70-some story trip down once, saving approximately 2,700 lives.
Sorry to take up your time, but I am bound to tell that story to anyone who will listen, whenever I can. The man was a hero among heroes.
Garryowen!
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That’s an amazing story.
Rescorla’s presence in that book made an impression on me, and a while after reading it, I randomly came across his biography, “Heart of a Soldier,” which blew me away. Such a strange and tremendous life he had, and truly a hero by any measure.
Garryowen indeed!
you said, rightly, that 3 “starters” can come out of any good draft.
that is different than 3 contributers on the 45man roster. much different.
you said, rightly, that 3 “starters” can come out of any good draft.
that is different than 3 contributers on the 45man roster. much different.
you are more optimistic than I and I try to stay on the sunnyside of things.
you are more optimistic than I and I try to stay on the sunnyside of things.
Glad to hear you already knew his story. “Heart of a Soldier” was indeed moving.
Nice chatting with you.
Quick question for the people at WFNY but has anyone with the Browns come out and discussed these moves yet? I don’t watch local sports and don’t read anything from The PD instead I read this site as well as SI.com, Fox Sports and a few others then watch ABAO, MS&LL and sometime’s Last Call. Just curious.
I propose we go offer the farm to Indy and F#&$ the Skins in the biggest in your face in the history of the NFL.