While We’re Waiting… Cavs gaining ground, Duke forgetting Kyrie and more Tribe injuries
March 13, 2012TD’s Tuesday NCAA Tournament Thoughts
March 13, 2012Regardless of how exactly the process went down this past weekend, the Browns missed their man. What isn’t in question is that the Browns wanted RG3 on the team and he will not be. So like any good co-dependent fanbase, we scour the earth to figure out who we can count on to be the quarterback to take the Browns to the Super Bowl. When one door closes another one opens. Usually. Exactly when that door will open, is another question entirely. That’s the biggest problem for Browns fans is not knowing.
Despite RG3 being an unbelievably exciting prospect, he was going to be an unknown at the NFL level too. That being said, it would have been fun just to know where the team was going if the Browns had landed the #2 pick. That makes the wait much easier as we would have started to see just what the Browns had acquired in Griffin as a player, teammate and man in the community. Now that the air has been sucked out of the room the wait has become excruciating as the potential destinations aren’t nearly as exciting.
Matt Flynn will presumably be making the rounds as a free agent. Kevin Kolb could find his way there too depending on Peyton Manning. Re-treads like Jason Campbell and Kyle Orton are around if anyone wants to talk to them.
The draft is chock full of “other guys” not named Luck or Griffin. Tannehill, Weeden, Osweiler, and Cousins round out the list. To say these guys have question marks next to their names is an understatement to say the least.
So, what do the Browns do? Anyone who says they know is either guessing or lying. The only thing I can say for sure is that the Browns can’t force it. Opportunity to find a long-term solution for quarterback isn’t created by desire or desperation.
So let’s talk about Colt McCoy. McCoy is a tough kid with a great attitude. I know that is the hack thing to say at this point, but it is true. McCoy has been in the spotlight for years and had to follow Vince Young at Texas. All of this will help immensely if the Browns have to turn to McCoy this season after so publicly missing out on replacing him with RG3.
Colt McCoy has presumably known all along that he won’t be handed the job this training camp. Knowing it and being able to deal with it are two different things. For whatever reason, I think Colt is wired in such a way to handle it. We’ve all seen what a detriment competition was for Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn. (In fairness, I guess competition might have been secondary to their talent level, but I digress.) I don’t expect Colt McCoy to suffer this potentially ego-trashing period the way some other players might in the same position.
That means the Browns should still be able to get another year out of a more comfortable and experienced McCoy who should know the offense better and hopefully have better and more consistent weapons than he had a year ago. McCoy projects to not win you a ton of games, but as I’ve explored before he also doesn’t lose them hand over fist by donating possessions to opposing secondaries.
Even if the Browns go get Matt Flynn or Kevin Kolb, that obviously doesn’t guarantee they’ve solved their problems. Realistically, it also doesn’t rule out Colt McCoy 100% as Kolb and Flynn aren’t exactly known entities and world beaters just yet.
Same with the draft. Even if you love the physical ability and experience that Ryan Tannehill had at Texas A&M, to think that he is going to just walk in and beat out Colt McCoy with his experience at Texas and 21 NFL games is presumptuous.
I know it isn’t fun to be so flexible, but there is no other choice right now. The Browns made an effort to get the guy they thought could be “the one” for the next decade and just missed. It doesn’t appear that an obvious prospect is going to walk along until next year’s draft, if then even. That doesn’t mean the Browns won’t take a flyer out on a guy or two this off-season. Just don’t hype it up to be anything more than a flyer.
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(Photo: Scott Sargent/WFNY)
92 Comments
Question: does 21 NFL games of sub-par performance out-rank 0 NFL games?
Or, really, its the age-old question: do you trust the evil you know or the unknown?
“That means the Browns should still be able to get another year out of a
more comfortable and experienced McCoy who should know the offense
better and hopefully have better and more consistent weapons than he had
a year ago. McCoy projects to not win you a ton of games, but as I’ve
explored before he also doesn’t lose them hand over fist by donating
possessions to opposing secondaries.”
This worries me a little. There are many ways to lose a game, and it doesn’t always involve turnovers. I think Colt is one of those players who performance and production, especially in the oh-so-important non-garbage time of an NFL game, is just not elite. It’s not terrible, but its certainly not on par with the other great QBs in the league.
I really don’t think another year of this horrid offense will make him better. It is party his fault but I think Shurmur’s terrible offense coupled with sub-par players/stone-handed running backs like Montario Hardesty all combine to 4-12.
I sincerely hope McCoy, in his second year in the offense, ends the QB question and conundrum. Not sure it will happen, but I sure do hope so.
(Conveniently ignoring the military aphorism that “hope is not a course of action.” Sun Tzu, Clausewitz, et. al., please sit down and be quiet.)
if we select an “other guy” in the draft, then I want either Foles or Coleman (3rd round or later guys with pretty high ceilings).
I think he will end the question: and, the answer will be “We need someone else as a starting QB in the NFL.”
this is like abused spouse syndrome…”they don’t mean to beat us…they’re trying to control it…some things just happen…I walked into an open cupboard door…they still love us…I couldn’t live without them”
we all need a hug from Robin Williams while he tells us its not our fault
Actually what we needed was a better plan starting 2 offseasons ago that didn’t rely heavily on Jake Delhomme, Seneca Wallace and a rookie third rounder.
Then what we needed was a better plan last year that did not involve the phrase “he’s essentially a rookie. This is our second first year”.
I just wish it seemed as though they had a clearly defined course of action and stuck to it, rather than aimlessly wandering, “making the best of the situation” and “not forcing it”
They have been “not forcing it” under this regime for going on 3 offseasons now, and we are pretty much where they started. I’m done with platitudes and calls for patience. Either improve, or continue to be marginalized in my life and in my discretionary entertainment spending budget. Whatever, I’m no longer emotional about the Browns. I hope they do well, but I’m not making excuses for them anymore when they don’t. It’s time to make some luck, not sit around and wait for the 18 million moving parts to all fall into the perfect place.
Even if the plan is “Sit around and do nothing” that’s fine. They just need to own it and live or die with it.
Coleman would be a very nice get. I would rather see that than us reach for Tannehill in round one.
who are you hoping we get at QB that is left available to us? just curious.
Well, we’re behind the 8-ball due to the RG3 loss, so its tough. Of the available players I think Flynn is my “favorite,” although I’d need to see him throw in a simulated wind tunnel before saying “aye aye.”
I just don’t know if we can handle, as a fan-base, anther 4-12ish season. It’ll be curtains for a lot of fans and I don’t know how Holmgren explains that one away. He can claim “first year coach,” and “lockout” for 2011. For 2012? I’d love to know the spin they are undoubtably working on.
I guess after two full seasons as a body of work to formally evaluate McCoy, I would be fine with that. Then we’ll have a firm strategy for pursuing the guy that we know we need. In the meantime, they better get the right guys (RT, WR, LB) to fill the other positions of huge need so that we can invest whatever it takes next year to get “that guy.”
“Actually what we needed was a better plan starting 2 off-seasons ago that
didn’t rely heavily on Jake Delhomme, Seneca Wallace and a rookie third
rounder.”
— THIS!
So well said. We needed competent leaders at a crucial stage and we didn’t have it. You said exactly what I have been saying (perhaps even more eloquently), and I have no doubt that this mood will start to permeate even the greatest of koolaiders out there after next season.
I really hope they do that, but I have my doubts. I see them trading out of the 4 spot with the Rams. Then we’d get all kinds of picks (4 of the top 40 players) and it’ll be called “progress.”
Personally, I am done evaluating McCoy. He won’t get any better. It’s too bad, really, since he’s a great person and never complained about the obvious shortcomings of those around him, especially the head coach.
I still think patience is in order at the moment. They tried to get the QB that they wanted, but couldn’t do so. With that reality, there’s nothing that we can really do (outside of maybe gambling on Flynn) right now apart from filling other positions of need and then going after the franchise QB next year, should the need be fully confirmed. In the meantime, I’m all for being patient with McCoy for one more season. We were never realisitically looking at a Super Bowl run with or without him next year, so I’m good with giving him one more shot, with more experience and better surrounding talent.
Whatever direction the Browns decided to go at quarterback this year, they need to find the guy who will take them to the 10- to 12-win level.
Signing Jason Campbell, Kyle Orton or Kevin Kolb, while arguably better than McCoy, only makes the Browns an 8-win team, which is pointless.
If Flynn’s the guy, go get him. If it’s Tannehill or Weeden, then just draft one of them.
But if they are not convinced any of those guys can take the team to the next level, they may as well just stick it out with McCoy, as hard as that will be at times, for another season and then regroup next year with a high draft pick or in free agency.
Whatever direction the Browns decided to go at quarterback this year, they need to find the guy who will take them to the 10- to 12-win level.
Signing Jason Campbell, Kyle Orton or Kevin Kolb, while arguably better than McCoy, only makes the Browns an 8-win team, which is pointless.
If Flynn’s the guy, go get him. If it’s Tannehill or Weeden, then just draft one of them.
But if they are not convinced any of those guys can take the team to the next level, they may as well just stick it out with McCoy, as hard as that will be at times, for another season and then regroup next year with a high draft pick or in free agency.
Isn’t it odd how we went from “RG3!! We can win with him and go to the playoffs” to “Well, let’s just stick it out for another 4-5 win season and wait till next year’s draft” BEFORE THE CURRENT DRAFT EVEN HAPPENS? It’s just so sad.
Isn’t it odd how we went from “RG3!! We can win with him and go to the playoffs” to “Well, let’s just stick it out for another 4-5 win season and wait till next year’s draft” BEFORE THE CURRENT DRAFT EVEN HAPPENS? It’s just so sad.
Everybody talkin’ ’bout Griff-in, Matt Flynn, Tannehill, Campbell, arm strength, break the bank,
All we are saaaaaaaaay-ing,
Is give Colt a channnnnce.
McCoy is a pretty good QB. He’s a leader. He’s smart. He’s got guts. He’s pretty accurate.
The man has had no off-season work at all, considering the lockout and the inexcusable hazing of that psycho Daboll. His receiving corpse [yes, corpse] has been pathetic, as has been the right tackle position.
Just give the man some help and watch him grow.
Everybody talkin’ ’bout Griff-in, Matt Flynn, Tannehill, Campbell, arm strength, break the bank,
All we are saaaaaaaaay-ing,
Is give Colt a channnnnce.
McCoy is a pretty good QB. He’s a leader. He’s smart. He’s got guts. He’s pretty accurate.
The man has had no off-season work at all, considering the lockout and the inexcusable hazing of that psycho Daboll. His receiving corpse [yes, corpse] has been pathetic, as has been the right tackle position.
Just give the man some help and watch him grow.
My sentiments exactly. Let the kid dig his own grave. I think at this point they’re going with McCoy all the way unless Kolb suddenly becomes available. I’m not saying Kolb has done anything to prove he’s the answer, he’s just better than McCoy and should be fairly priced.
I’d say they’d probably be interested in Flynn, but he’ll be too expensive and Joe Philbin and the Dolphins seem to have 0 interest in him. Yes, I realize that Peyton Manning is way better but he’s not a long term solution – Matt Flynn would be.
What a horrible thing it would be to see Heckert reach for a WR turned QB or a 28-year-old rookie.
If we assume that McCoy fully flames out this year, which I agree is a definite possibility (though I’m not sold on it being a probability), I’d be okay with trading out of the #4 spot (but not too far down) in order to gain another 1st round pick next year – much like we did last year with Atlanta. That way, we’d be in position to make a trade in 2013 for the QB we need.
I do think that McCoy will be better this year, especially if we are able to get a #1 WR, but it’s probably a question of small degree.
The Jake Delhomme signing made me sick to my stomach.
I’m not big on Kolb. If they didn’t think he was worth going after last year, I don’t think they should do so this year. That would smack of desperation. If McCoy isn’t the answer, neither is the guy that they previously weren’t willing to sign to replace McCoy.
If Flynn isn’t signable, we have to go “all in” with McCoy for at least one more year.
sure…now that’s about all we can do. We had options, they even decided they wanted one of those options, they set themselves up for such an option last year should it present itself, it did, then when the time came, they didn’t get it done…now we will all make excuses that there’s nothing else they can do and “they tried” and now when they suck, it wont be their fault.
Apparently, their plan this offseason was to get RGIII. Contingency plan? Contingency plan:FAIL. To offer up “well, there’s not much else they can try” just isn’t going to work for me. If that is the case, then that’s fine, that’s how it will go, but I’m not going to let my wallet tell them I think it is ok.
I’m done with that. It was their fault with Jake Delhomme. It was their fault letting Mangini stay if they werent going to be able to co-exist (and If I knew it wasn’t going to happen, how could they not know?) They made a decision, and then didn’t achieve results (again whether or not you agree with their decision is not the issue). That’s their fault. This is the next link in the chain of poor decisions (sprinkled with a good draft pick or three, but there’s been some bad draft moves also) Its not our fault…its not our fault.
when conventional wisdom is so complete re: ‘qb-driven-league’ that is the exact time to go the other direction. id thrilled beyond reason if we wound up with richardson/adams in an attempt to recreate this.
in fact, id take it a step further and would be happy if they draft decastro at #4 -if our scouts think he’s got transcendent schafrath/hickerson pulling guard potential- and then trade up into the teens to take richardson.
#kansascityshuffle.
I feel like I’m in the minority but I’m not as concerned about getting the quarterback first. I think for this team it is more important to build a team so that when you plug in a top 10 quarterback or highly rated prospect he has the best chance at succeeding.
Why waste 2-3 years of us finely getting our elite QB just to have the team barely make the playoffs. I’d rather try and build a team like SF or Denver. Wouldn’t you rather be in there situation were they just need the Elite QB instead of being the Rams or Panthers who still need the whole team except for the QB?
Made my day, Jim. Love the one-handed catch over the middle.
fine by me. RT, couple WR’s (2 vets or 1 vet 1 draft) and some LB or DB depth.
But, to me I think a RT is easiest to find in Free Agency. I see Eric Winston got cut by the Texans. I wonder what he’d command contract-wise?
Maalox sales went up 13 percent that week. Coincidence?
I’m fairly confident that is not what I’m saying, I can’t speak about anyone else though.
What I am saying is whatever the Browns do at QB has to make the team a playoff squad (not necessarily this year). Getting another QB just because you don’t like McCoy isn’t a good move unless that QB can consistently take the team to double-digit wins.
I’m ready to move on from McCoy, but I’m not in the change for change’s sake camp.
Fair enough. We definitely see it differently. I see enough things I like to be willing to invest a bit more time, energy, and wallet space.
“Opportunity to find a long-term solution for quarterback isn’t created by desire or desperation.”
Right–it’s created by taking action. Losing meaningless games. Making the big trade. The Browns are always content with not taking risks–in the off-season, on the field…
Desperation is a by-product of inaction/inertia.
Well voiced Craig. If the professional talent evaluators we have feel that Kolb or Flynn can run Childress/Shurmur/Holmgren’s version of the WCO thenso be it. And if it is Colt with a full off season immersion with his OC then so be it.
Sorry we missed out on RG3 if they thought he had the requisite elite QB talent. But enough handwringing. Let Heckert be Heckert for a few more weeks and see what holes he fills through FA and then let’s re-evaluate.
ok, Flynn is the next best option in your opinion. thanks.
I (obviously) agree.
You start throwing “meaningless” games and the commissioner starts taking away draft choices, so that’s counterproductive.
Not to rev up the whole tedious you-try-to-win-every-game argument again, but you try to win every game.
Definitely agree that, apart from Kalil, we’d have to find our RT in FA. Would love to get Winston, and would think we could afford him if we didn’t go after another big name (Flynn).
Today, I’m thinking: Sign a RT FA. Look to sign a young WR. Trade out of #4 for another #1 in the 2013 draft (QB insurance). Draft a WR as soon as possible in the 1st Round (Floyd?). Draft LB.
That will change tomorrow.
If the Rams give us a 2nd to trade to #4, then it definitely signals we offered less than 3 1st round picks because they would then end up with a worse haul than if they just took our 3 1st round picks in the first place.
Owner Ross is pulling the strings on Peyton. If Miami isn’t interested in Flynn after Peyton picks his spot, then I would be more concerned.
exactly.
“So, what do the Browns do? Anyone who says they know is either guessing or lying.”
This is so true for me. I haven’t commented much on this (and I’m sure you’re all broken up about it) because I have NO IDEA what they should do. Stick with McCoy? Yeah, I can see that. Sign Flynn? Ok, that could work. Draft a Tannehill or Weeden? Sounds good too. The truth is, because player evaluation is so hard in the NFL, none of us have any idea what should happen. We can all have preference but I’m not sure what they are really based on. If Colt lights it up this year and looks like our QB savior, does that make his supporters right? I guess, but based on what? A lucky guess? Look, I can see both sides to all of this. I would have loved to have RG3 but I can see how it was too much to give up all those picks.
About the only thing I can say with some certainty is that half the fan based will be really pissed no matter what the Browns do. Will that half be right? No idea and we might not have any idea going into the 2013 season either. We were all feeling pretty good about Colt after hs rookie year but hardly anyone is sold on him now. The same might be true for Tannehill or Weeden or even McCoy after this year.
I kind of admire people who post here with all the answers. It must feel good to know you have the answers to all the Browns problems. But for me, I’m completely in the dark.
If it’s the minority, I’m right there with you.
You play to win the game.
a GM should never say the words “no matter what” I feel Mangini/Kokinis had a “trade-down no matter what” mindset and it’s partially why we got so little on that trade down.
Heckert couldn’t have a “RGIII no matter what” mindset. He put a value on how much it was worth to trade up and apparently Washington put more value on it. given their history of overvaluing splashy moves, I am okay with losing that battle.
Here’s why:
1) you get your team in place and then you have to wait 1-2 years for the QB to develop, that’s a waste of time–he may as well develop while everyone else is still young rather than wasting 1-2 years of your core’s prime waiting for a QB to develop
2) once you’ve built a team without a QB, you’re stuck in no-man’s land and it’s very difficult to get an elite-talent QB–you either have to draft the a QB who is 3rd, 4th, 5th best coming out of college or you have to package draft picks (which are less valuable because you’re better so must include more) and maybe part of that core you built up…
doesn’t make sense
well, that’s not going to happen with the current regime. and we’ve seen the limitations of that in sf and bal in today’s nfl.
my only question about Floyd is that he had 2 DUI’s at Notre Dame…does that mean he is already in the NFL’s program and already 1 strike closer to a 4 game suspension? That would scare me if I was a GM. H’es got skills, and maybe that’s all behind him and he’s grown up since then, I just don’t know how that all works in the league.
Re: “I kind of admire people who post here with all the answers. It must feel
good to know you have the answers to all the Browns problems.”
It’s a blessing, but it’s also a curse.
who thought we were going to the playoffs with RGIII in 2012? that would be a silly train of thought.
I haven’t given up, I’m just losing faith in the head cheeses and Im not going to buy their excuses and make excuses for them anymore. No more benefit of the doubt. Do…or do not…there is no try
RT is generally very difficult to adequately fill in FA. teams tend to not let go of the good OTs at either spot.
Winston is a very good RT. the only issue is that he is a bit lighter/smaller than we might desire (zone-blocking guy). I’d be happy with him, but there’s a decent chance a team w/ a need at LT pays him big money and takes a chance he can hang on that side.
agree with a lot of commentary here.
What has worried me about Holmgren is that he seems to view himself as a legit QB talent evaluator, while his history shows only that he’s a legit QB coach. Cannot understand what he saw in Seneca and there had to be better out there to back up your starter, both physically and mentally. I like Colt more than the other QBs we’ve had on the roster the past 2 seasons, but we will get a new QB on the roster this season and if Holmgren makes the QB call over Heckert, as he has insinuated in prior years, just not confident in Holmgren as scout. He’s an historically great coach, not scout and not executive.