Forbes lists Cleveland as 8th most miserable sports city
February 29, 2012Report: Peyton Hillis ‘parts ways’ with agent
February 29, 2012One thing that has been bothering me immensely over the last few weeks with regard to Browns talk is offensive tackle. Early on, I said that the Browns would be crazy not to draft Matt Kalil if he fell to them. The majority of people started screaming at me that I was crazy. Common thought seems to be that you just can’t force a guy who is left tackle caliber to play right tackle. You also can’t pay two guys premier left tackle money in the NFL. Just totally crazy. Then yesterday, I got to thinking. Why is it any different to draft two top of the line cornerbacks?
Nobody is sitting around thinking the Browns don’t need LSU corner Morris Claiborne because they have Joe Haden. The only thing better than locking down the #1 receiver on every team is locking down the top two receivers on every team. Premier cornerbacks make a ton of money too. Nnamdi Asomugha signed a free agent deal for five years and $60 million with the Eagles as a 29-year-old. While shorter in duration than Joe Thomas’ deal the annual cap figure is about the same.
I’ll never claim to know everything about everything. If I am missing something, educate me.
It just seems to me that the only thing better than having Joe Thomas on the outside to cover the blind side and stop premier pass rushers would be to have two of those guys. They buy your quarterback and receivers more time to complete passes downfield. They open up more holes for more running backs with varying degrees of pedigree. They make the guards inside them better. They should help reduce the need to keep a tight end or fullback in to block, thus increasing the dangerous weapons on the field at any given time.
What’s wrong with any of that? It might not be common perception or thinking in NFL circles, but aren’t these just the kinds of tactics and ideas that separate a team from the rest of the pack?
40 Comments
Left tackle = better at pass blocking (for a right handed QB) vs. right tackle = better at run blocking?
That’s all I got for why not to do it. Maybe they want their right tackle to be a road grader. But that’s more for what the guards are for, correct?
Personally, I think the Browns could do a lot worse than Kalil if he fell to them.
I don’t see why we have the need to trade up. If we don’t we have either Kalil, Blackmon or Griffin AND what’s the most important 22nd pick still. Take who falls from those three at #4 and Stephon Gilmore or Upshaw, or Zach Brown. And Kendal Wright or Nick Toon at 36th
Didn’t read this yet.
Default answer: Because he can’t play QB.
I agree there, which is one of the many arguments to why I feel the Browns don’t trade up.
I love the idea of drafting Kalil but I bet he is going #3 so it doesn’t matter much.
This would be the most prototypically “Browns” thing they could possibly do. Have an elite prospect play out of position to create a unneeded “strength” while ignoring the giant gaping needs they have at literally EVERYTHING else.
I’m with this logic. I have said all along that giving up picks for a QB is senseless considering anybody lining up behind that right side doesn’t stand a chance. While taking a WR is a necessary need, that WR can’t perform if the QB is on his back taking sacks or making untimed, bad throws due to pressure. I am an advocate of trading down and gaining more picks if this regime insists that we are building through the draft, but like you I get screamed at that we have to take RG3, T Richardson, or J Blackmon. Well since Blackmon is making it obvious that he doesn’t want to come here, and Washington wants to pull a Ditka for RG3, maybe the Browns consider another trade out unless Kalil is available. Even if Hillis leaves it is a lot easier to find RB’s in FA, they may not be Richardson, but they are out there. Picks are solid especially when the draft has depth in pass rushers and other areas. Mike Adams? He could help McCoy stay on his feet and complete passes. Let’s not be blind to the fact that McCoy had a lockout, no offseason, a new system, no right line, no solid run game and no WR’s. Hillis gave him a better chance to succeed in 2010, this year there was zero offensive threats and McCoy ate it. Reality trumps 1 pick, and the reality is we need more than 1 guy.
Shocked that Kanicki hasn’t weighed in on this yet. He’s got reams of research to support Craig’s conclusion here.
I could live with this.
the surest way to build a dynasty is through the offensive line…
I was going to be snarky and say “b/c left tackles can’t run a 4.41 40”
If we had the best line in football (or close to it) while still using the #22 and #37 on true offensive weapons … the QB position will take care of itself.
We either see better play from a guy on the roster currently, we put ourselves in place to fill the holes and draft a guy next year, or a top FA QB decides he would rather have a line block for him that is 3/5ths all-pro bowl.
It makes sense if nothing else.
In fairness, RT is one of those giant gaping needs. Though I agree it’s sub-optimal to play anyone out of position.
no no no. trade the 1st round picks for the next 12 years and Varejao to get RGIII.
for o-line you just need 5 fat guys.
thats why mike adams is being looked at with the second pick. he’s ‘supposedly’ better run blocker edge sealer than pass protect.
I’d be totally fine with drafting Kalil…as long as they also draft a QB and replace McCoy who just can’t cut it.
With an amazing offensive line and no QB that can function we’d be all dressed up with no where to go.
Why not indeed? Would have no problem with selecting Kalil.
The only thing (and this is something that continually grates on my nerves) is the Steelers continue to win with one of the weakest offensive lines in the NFL.
And, for what it’s worth, Pro Football Focus ranked the Giants offensive line as the 31st worst in the NFL: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/22/ranking-the-2011-offensive-lines-part-1/ and they only won the Super Bowl this year.
I’m a big proponent of spending money on the offensive line. A great running back will get you nowhere if he can’t find a hole to run through (with apologies to Barry Sanders for wrongly including him). How do you rattle great quarterbacks like Brady and Manning? With pressure. Both players would still be better than what we have had, but would either be a Superbowl winning QB with John St. Turnstile anchoring the right tackle spot? I doubt it.
Agree with the post. My friend and I have been saying this for a while – trade down and draft Reiff (don’t think Kalil will get past 3). Who wouldn’t want a line of:
LT Thomas LG Steinbach C Mack RG Pinkston RT Reiff?
As I said to some other guys today – I’m sick of the Browns always trying to be like everyone else and failing or at best being a step behind. Why not be aggressive by taking a different approach? Wouldn’t having a line that doesn’t need extra blockers and can give an extra half-second or maybe even a full second make a huge impact on our passing game?
Even if RG3 were the next Peyton Manning, he can’t win without time or talent around him. One of the most important features of any good QB has been a good to great line in front of them. Why not have an outstanding one?
Not to mention, a line is a necessary feature for closing out wins.
yep. he either goes #2 (if the Rams can’t trade down) or #3. I don’t see how the Vikings value Claiborne over Kalil (especially considering Ponder is a pocket QB)
Yeah when you and Kanicki initially threw out the idea of drafting Kalil, my immediate reaction was how RT is a less valued slot than other areas of need. But, considering the level of prospect and that RT is a desperate need, I have no qualms taking him.
Of course, he has almost no shot at being there #4.
Ok, here goes…
The LT usually goes up against the other team’s best pass rusher. He protects a franchise QB against blind side hits, which can end a QB’s game/season/career. Joe Thomas’s work would be more appreciated if he were protecting an actual franchise QB who could get rid of the ball in a more timely and skilled fashion.
The RT usually goes up against the other team’s second best pass rusher. If he fails, the QB can see this and step out of the way or at least brace himself for a hit. The RT also is called upon to open holes in the run game. The RT is not the ultra rare ‘dancing bear’ that is needed at LT, nor should he be. The RT just needs to be a big strong guy who can push people around and adequately pass protect. It only seems like something special to us because we have so rarely had that (Ryan Tucker, but that’s it).
In this draft (and most drafts) there are one or two natural left tackles. After that there are several tackles who could adequately anchor the right side, and can be had later in the draft (Ryan Tucker was a 3rd round pick).
A truly capable LT would not be satisfied playing RT for his career because it would be a waste of his talent and also because LT’s make a LOT more money. So it would tough to re-sign a LT to play RT after his rookie contract is up.
That being said, I wouldn’t hate it if we took a tackle early because it would certainly help our offense in every facet. And the BPA argument would be in effect for Kalil at four. I’m just not sure how it would fit in with our long term plan to build this team (assuming there is an actual plan this time around).
if elite RTs are so tough to re-sign and so easy to find in the draft, then we can 1st round tender them and continue to replace them with younger versions every 4-5 years at no cost to our actual draft selections 🙂
I think I just created a perpetual motion machine 🙂
I would totally love this. When we step up there with the 3rd pick in the dra… Oh we pick 4th? Well that explains why we won’t take him.
Sorry but if he makes it past Minnesota I’d be amazed. If he did fall in our lap I’d still spend every minute possible fielding trade down offers from anyone and everyone. Maybe pick up another 1st in next years draft, and a couple of other picks, take best available WR and RT with your two first rounders. I get the idea behind it but RT just isn’t a position you take at 4,5,6.
I would totally love this. When we step up there with the 3rd pick in the dra… Oh we pick 4th? Well that explains why we won’t take him.
Sorry but if he makes it past Minnesota I’d be amazed. If he did fall in our lap I’d still spend every minute possible fielding trade down offers from anyone and everyone. Maybe pick up another 1st in next years draft, and a couple of other picks, take best available WR and RT with your two first rounders. I get the idea behind it but RT just isn’t a position you take at 4,5,6.
I agree 100%, we would be stupid not to take kalil, I’d even trade a 3rd rounder and our 4th to move up to 3. We need a right tackle bad or our qb will be running right all year again. Look at McCoy, he was scrambling right because the right side broke and he had to move up and right. Seriously watch the film and you’d see this. I keep hearing Blackmon is overrated, take Richardson or Claiborne then at 4 if kalil is gone
For those of you who think RG3, Blackmon or Richardson is the way to go…you are showing a serious lack of judgement. Khalil or Claiborne..
Road to the Super Bowl goes through OL and defense.
I would definitely take Kalil if he were available.
I haven’t heard anything regarding blackmon not wanting to come here. Can I get some more insight?
….really? Honestly? Seriously?
2011 Giants: Offense > Defense. OL Medicore-ish. Maybe. Franchise QB.
2010 Packers: Offense > Defense. OL Decent. Franchise QB.
2009 Saints: Defense > Offense. HAHAHAHA NOT. OL Good. Franchise QB.
2008 Steelers: This team should never receive credit for anything. …screw it. Franchise QB.
2007 Giants: Defense > Offense. OL pretty good/great. Nobody knew it yet, but franchise QB.
2006 Colts: Offense > Defense. Ask the 2006 Bears how they feel about the comment you just made. Colts QB was probably a franchise guy, if you like, you know, 6’5″ 240 lb guys with a laser rocket arm. Offense. OL good. FRANCHISE QB.
2004 Patriots: Defense = Offense? OL…ok. Tom Mother*(**(*( Brady.
2003 Patriots: ” ” ”
2002 Buccaneers: Defense >>>>> Offense. OL pretty good. Note: this team’s defense was one of the sickest squads ever assembled ever period ever for years. They did not win a Super Bowl until they got an offense. Non-franchise QB.
2001 Patriots: Yup.
2000 Ravens: Defense >>>> offense. OL good. Jamal Lewis made up for Trent Dilfer. One of two teams in a while that won a Super Bowl without a franchise QB.
1999 St. Louis Rams: Greatest Show On Turf LOLs at Defense. OL darn good. Franchise QB.
1998 Broncos: Franchise QB.
1997 Broncos: Franchise QB
1996 Packers: Franchise QB
1995 Cowboys: Franchise QB
1994 49ers: Franchise QB
1993 Cowboys: Franchise QB
1992 Cowboys: Franchise QB
1991 Redskins: Non-Franchise QB (imo). You won’t catch me saying that in DC.
1990 Giants: Non-Franchise QB.
In the interest of disclosure, the losing QB in 90-93 was a franchise hall of famer, and lost to two non-franchise QBs in 1990 and 1991. However, after 1991, the only Super Bowl loss by an NFL contender with a franchise QB to one without was the 2002 Raiders with Rich Gannon. The other one you could make an argument on is 2007, but Eli Manning at that point had already gone from questionable to underrated.
So yes, all of us who want the Browns to draft RG3 instead of a stud left tackle to play with our stud left tackle (BTW, spell Kalil’s name right, plx), or a cornerback to shore up our above-average defense (since, you know, we already have a viable corner to cover any #1 in the league, and there are like 4 nasty DBs available in free agency and many serviceable ones to play with him) and go into the season with a quarterback whose prospected ceiling is probably equal to RG3’s prospected basement, we are all completely out of our minds.
Defense is important, and nobody (or almost nobody) wins the Super Bowl with a bad defense. Ever. But RG3 fits the bill to fill our massive gunshot wound at the most important position in not just football, but any American pro sport.
The only reason the steelers can do that is that BR is huge and can take a hit (or 20) while he is young. That will end soon, he will breakdown eventually if they don’t start addressing the line.
Barkley 2013!
I’ve been saying that about drafting Claiborne for months. Maybe not here though…
Well we only need a RT who can stay healthy to have an elite O Line. It’s not like you can’t find have a dozen RTs in rounds 2-5.
*half
We already have a line with 3/5 pro bowlers
Disagree. I just don’t
think that’s the way the NFL works these days. With free agency, you can’t have
All-Pros at every position (although the Ravens almost do on defense). I think
you have to accept that you will have a mix of All-Pros and just OK players –
and I would rather have an All-Pro left tackle and a “just OK” right tackle,
and instead get an impact skill player whether that is QB, RB or WR. That being
said, they MUST upgrade Pashos.
i agree i kind of like the idea. if we can get kalil with the first pick at 4 and with the 2 pick at the 22 pick in the first round get wright or floyd at wideout. Then in the second round get either lemichael james or martin from boise state. Then in the third round get the best outside linebacker or de. i am telling u what have u guys ever heard of the name derek wolfe from the university of cincinnati he is 6’5 300 pounds and can move man. he played high school ball at beaver local which is where i live arch rival .i live in east Liverpool
I”m with you all the way on that – build inside out. No matter who our QB turns out to be, a top class tine, anchored by two stud tackles gives everyone a shot at success.
This move is much more tenable now with the rookie wage scale in place. You’ll hardly pay more per year for Kalil than you the Browns just did for Patterson. Now, getting that tackle to stay on for his next contract will be a task, but maybe you’d be ready to move on from Joe T anyways.