Week 13 Open Thread: Browns vs. Baltimore Ravens
December 4, 2011While We’re Waiting… Running Amuck, Winter Meetings and Varejao’s Value
December 5, 2011The Cleveland Browns were beaten handily by Ray Rice and the Ravens 24-10, but that doesn’t tell the story. Â The Ravens appeared to be trying very hard to keep the Browns in the game over the course of the first three quarters. Â The Browns had plenty of opportunities, but they shot themselves in the foot continually.
Granted it was a wet day in Cleveland, but the Browns receivers were dropping the ball all throughout the first half. Â Greg Little had a drop. Â Ben Watson had a drop. Â Evan Moore let one slip through his hands as he stumbled over his own feet in the end zone. Â That drop right there takes a 10-7 game and forces it to a 10-3 game as team MVP Phil Dawson kicked a field goal. Â (Yes, the snap by Ryan Pontbriand’s replacement Christian Yount was just fine.) Â That was the day for the Browns.
I can’t let Colt McCoy off the hook either. Â Yes, he was the victim of many drops. Â Yes, he got his knee banged up and still returned to the field. Â His toughness has never been a question. Â The biggest problem was that McCoy committed another horrendous turnover at the end of the first half. Â It was deep in Browns territory and resulted in a short field goal for the Ravens. Â Billy Cundiff was given this gift after the kicker had missed two previously from further out. Â For McCoy, that makes (at least) three especially horrendous interceptions in the last few weeks that I can think of. Â No matter how much his receivers fail him, he can’t compound the mistakes for his team.
Similarly, the Browns defense can’t use injuries as an excuse. Â The team never planned to play without Scott Fujita or T.J. Ward this season, but that doesn’t excuse the absolute abuse that Ray Rice unleashed on a defense that appeared to have their non-tackling hands oiled up all day. Â There were some nice individual plays as Sheard strip-sacked Flacco and the defense held on 4th and short early. Â And yes, the Browns offense abused the defense with a lopsided the time-of-possession battle, but ultimately the Browns D fell victim to too many big plays.
On the bright side (this will be short, I promise,) when the Browns make so many unforced errors, it feels like they are somewhat correctable. Â Petyon Hillis had a long reception and seemed to run the ball well early.
On the dark side, it certainly seemed like a lackluster effort for most of the game. Â That doesn’t bode well for the future, down the stretch, for a young and supposedly building team with a rookie head coach. The team finally seemed to be “getting it” over the last few weeks and maybe it is just the better competition, but it sure seems like they hit a plateau and started to fall the wrong direction the last two weeks.
I don’t know anyone who really thought the Browns were going to win today. Â I also know a lot of people who thought this game was going to go far worse than it did. Â That is no solace right now as the Browns needed something to feel good about heading into a short week with a game in front of the NFL Network-receiving world on Thursday night.
And if you were like I was and thought the Baltimore game would be ugly, how are you feeling about the Browns facing a Steelers squad that just pasted the Bengals 35-7 today? Â Potential for two demoralizing losses in five calendar days?
51 Comments
@ Craig
Losing that patience yet?
Not really, but they deserve a ton of criticism today.
I doubt anyone thought this game would be close, but the Browns did have their opportunities today to make it close. Unfortunately, they didn’t…they might as well mail it in at this point (I’d hate to see how that Thursday game goes).
Craig, you must be an awfully patient person. It was very hard for me to sit in the rain and wind and cold and pay to see that. Don’t get me wrong, I cheered and yelled and supported my team. But it’s hard for me, so hard, to give this teams leadership my patience when they put that crap on the field.
I mean 290 yards rushing… We killed Butch Davis when his teams allowed the Ravens to do that… But Holmgren and Shurmur should get patience? No.
Granted, I missed the opening part of the 2nd half and a handful of plays in the 1st, but what I saw was the same team we’ve seen this season but playing the against one of the best teams around.
It shows me McCoy is done though. I think the Ravens defenders had more drops then the browns WRs. The whole passing game needs a rebuild. Its not a question of WRs or QB. We need to revamp it Cincy style by getting the top WR (Blackmon) and then taking the best QB at the Falcons pick.
Tim, I’ve put mid-season next year as a pretty big decision point for me. I think that will be “enough” time for this front office and new coaching staff to show their true colors.
After watching an endless supply on 2 yrd routes on 3rd and 10 I sure am missing Metcalf up the middle…. đ
Also- anyone notice Taylor wasnt in the game a lot if at all in the 4th qtr? I dont know if hes not running the scheme or something to fill holes, but he had another silent game that most will not notice. This kid has had some good games but he needs to step up in a big way fast. We are seeing Sheard do it so its not too much to expect the same from Taylor. I wonder if he is not filling lanes correctly which allowed some of the bigger runs. From what I saw they had excellent blocking/outnumbering of our defenders.
Craig, that seems fair, and i sure hope its better by then. By the way it should be noted that as I was able to finally make it to a game and see the whole field, the receivers did run a good number of deep routes and almost never got separation.
Maybe Professor Holmgren can lean back in his big office chair and look at his plan for the Browns as some academic exercise or in an abstract sense, but We The Frickin’ Fans are getting sick of paying for this pathetic garbage.
Let’s see something, Mike!
@ Bobby
On the plays I payed close attention to Phil Taylor he seemed slow and had little impact. I don’t know if it was a lack of quickness and strength or a lack of motivation and passion but it was one of those
“the receivers did run a good number of deep routes and almost never got separation.”
Since I watch the games at the bar and have a luxury of seeing more than ine game at a time, I watched Dallas/Arizona and GB/NY and saw quite a few catches where the recevers didn’t have “separation”.
I guess this has to fall back on the QB getting the ball it the right place.
Thomas,
When I say ‘no separation’ I mean they are covered so completely and closely Rodgers and Brady could not throw to them. It was that bad.
What a horrendous display of “offense”. It’s hard to think of anything to say that hasn’t been said already. SERIOUS upgrades to the O-line need to be the 1st priority for Heckert in the upcoming draft.
What was up with those screen plays? I’ve never seen worse screen pass plays at any level of the game.
God I hate the WCO.
Can we start talkin draft? I vote we either offer a ransom for Luck and sign some quality FAs OR we draft Trent Richardson and Michael Floyd.
When does spring training start?
a couple thoughts:
– The talent differential between us and both Balt and Pitts tells me we better not trade a slew of picks to move up for a qb in the first round.
– Understand it was wet out there, but do we have a single pass catcher with reliable hands at any position? Maybe Hillis, or undrafted Norwood. This is remarkable. Little is now scared of getting hit, you can see it. Also wondering if James Harrisonâs hit effectively ended whatever potential MoMass had. He doesnât looked thrilled to be out there.
– Colt also suddenly looks somewhat flat-eyed and emotionless. Earlier this season he looked like a ballroom dancer needing to counting, now he looks like he thinks itâs pointless with whatâs going on, heâs just determined not to throw a pick to Ed Reed downfield. Seeing some of our guard play and more receiver drops today, hardly blame him. Or maybe heâs decided this coaching staff is not helping him. Whatever it is, no longer looks like that guy scheming to win.
– Why does this defense always give up big yardage on the first drive? Maybe they need some catchy sideline chant like Drew Brees in that incessant commercial.
– This is a weird year where it would be best for the Browns if it somehow could just end today. They need an influx of young talent and a deep breath, not getting smashed every week until January. Except for Sheard and Norwood, guys seem to be going backwards.
Harv, you def could see LIttle afraid of getting hit on 1 of the last balls thrown in the game. And once again, he got hit anyways. So like you said last week, Little’s going to get hit, he might as well catch it.
I had SOME hope for this team going forward, but right now I have absolutely no faith in anything this team does.
This offseason and next draft are it for Holmgren and Heckert. They better sign some free agents and use their own draft picks to improve this talent deprived roster. 3/4 of the draft picks better hit too. Oh and bring in an actual offensive coordinator.
I’m with Craig. I’m going to continue to preach patience until at-least mid next season. We owe the new regime that much. If no signs of improvement by then, hell shall be raised. I don’t even want to think about that scenario to be honest. Makes me sick to my stomach to think it’s a possibility that we could be in the same spot this time next year. Urban Meyer shall keep me sane
I wish the season were over today. I can’t take anymore. Haven’t felt this gloomy since the lameduck Romeo Crennel year.
We will be in the right position to draft either Blackmon or Luck/Barkley/Griffin3. If not, Keenum with Atlanta’s 19-25 pick.
Donovan said it last week against the Bengals, McCoy has not beaten a division opponent yet, and if he doesn’t this year, he is 0-10. I really like the guy and want him to succeed, but if that happens… move on. Thank the football gods we drafted Ward with the 2nd pick instead of McCoy.
(I know Ward’s year leaves much to be desired, but my point stands)
if anyone smells smoke it’s wafting up from New Orleans. Ol’ buddy Eric Wright just got burned 3 times, by a receiver, on the same 60 yard TD play. Didn’t know that was possible until I watched it. Glad he’s another team’s headcase now.
(Pathetic. Reduced to snickering over downfall of former Cleveland players because that’s all I got today)
Went to the game today and now that I am dried out I can type my thoughts:
Jordan Norwood is the best actual wideout on our team.
Tony Pashos is absolutely atrocious.
We have 0 speed on defense.
Peyton Hillis will not be on this team next year.
Oribiasi is not happy.
Did Fujita ever flick his hair back and forth
@Christopher
I hear ya. I couldn’t believe the screen pass to the right where Pashos was the LAST blocker to get there… well, he never really even got there… even though he’s the closest guy to the play! Just godawful. He and Lavao need to be supplanted ASAP!
Everything Harv said x2.
Also, I was wondering earlier in the season if Shurmur had lost his players. I saw some improvement through the last few games and thought perhaps not… but if they’re phoning it in nowthen perhaps so…
@Big Zydrunas
I almost lost my breakfast on that screen. There were 2 blockers and 20 yards in front of Obi-wan on that play….but no, Pashos the #1 blocker and lynch pin to the whole play couldn’t get out in front.
I’m not sure what you guys are talking about. I really enjoyed the game today. I realized by the end of the first quarter that it was going to be ugly so I took a 2 hour Sunday afternoon nap. I suggest you all consider doing the same in the following weeks. WFNY
On a sidenote is anyone else watching Detroit down 24-7 to the Saints and fighting like they still have a chance……………………….the Browns don’t do that.
Today was depressing, and I’m incredibly concerned that with them being 4-8 now and so down, the young guys will simply regress incredibly from here on out. The point someone above made about McCoy looking dead out there is quite true, and of just about everyone out there. Their O-line isn’t good enough to let them pull a Mangini-type finish to this season, and the worst thing for a defense is knowing you simply can’t stop the other team from running the ball. Unless the front office finds a way to get this team fired up for Thursday it will be a massacre.
Did anyone notice the striking comparison prior to the game? Flacco 248YPG, 13/8. McCoy 212, 13/8. I keep believing that if Colt had WRs who could a) get open and b) CATCH and perhaps c) a right-side of the OL, he could be very good. On the other hand, while he only has 9 INTs, almost all of them have been absolutely HORRID ones in crucial situations where anything is better than an INT. I still say stock up everywhere else in the draft (WR, RG, run-stoppers) and give him another season at the helm.
A friend noted that the Browns should trade D’Qwell this offseason. He’s at the peak of his value, he’s nearing 30 (?), and realistically, their current LB crop isn’t good enough to stop the run. I also don’t understand why they always play 4-5 yards deep even on obvious rushing downs. They don’t even start hitting the O-line until they’re 2-3 yards downfield.
The front office needs to get a top WR (Blackmon) in this draft along with a RG/RT and a LB (or top CB and rush 8 ala the Ryans trusting your CBs to cover) with their first three picks, and re-sign Hillis and find some more depth at OL on the FA market.
Via CBS, wow: Dec. 04, 2011 6:45 p.m. – by Marty Gitlin – Browns in complete disarray
The Browns had nine players on the field for a Baltimore punt, showing their futility.
If that’s true, someone should get canned. Wow.
On the flip side, people have been complaining about Cribbs, but I don’t get why. Coming into this week, Browns were 2nd in AFC in starting field position and near last in TBs. He’s not getting great returns because they’re not kicking to him like they would to most returners.
As much as I love talking draft, and I love Ezzie’s scenario, I have a sinking feeling we are going to use a high draft pick on a QB again. And I am going to cry. Let’s build around Colt and give him players. What we have lacked more than anything since our return, is a number one wideout, and a top 10 RB. I can’t sit here and believe we’ve had 13 drafts and not found a any of those three pieces. Its insane
i already dropped this on craig; yes this is troll-y. but you guys need to check this out. the third round pick we traded to move up five slots for taylor? justin houston had 3 sacks and a FF against the bears today helping tyler palko’s chiefs win at chicago.
it’s all just incredible.
The offense served as a break in the action for Ravens fans to go grab a brew before their offense returned to the field…nothing more.
I’m not giving up on McCoy yet. These receivers lead the league in drops, and today was the day that every one of them happend to get the dropsies at the same time. If this front office enters next season with anyone other than Norwood and maybe Little as a #4 guy at WR, it’s time to get mad.
If anything, watching Norwood’s speed and sure hands have made me realize just how terrible this receiving corp is overall.
I’m not advocating that H&H are on the hot seat…far from it. They’ve been solid with many personnel moves. However, it’s so hard to look back at the beginning of the season and wonder what went through their heads when they thought, “MoMass, Robo, Cribbs, and Little. Yeah…I think we’re set at WR.”
@ Mike
You know what? You’re right.
It is ridiculous to think about the fact that this team has been back 12 years and has never managed to find a true number one RB or WR. Braylon was a reach as a top 3 pick, but he’s the closest they’ve come.
If Blackmon isn’t there at the top pick…don’t reach! I’d love to see Richardson in a Browns uni. I just don’t understand how other teams look at standouts like Troy Brown from Central Michigan and think, “he looks ready. Let’s take him” while the Browns see an above average guy like MoMass and think, “I bet with a little time, he’ll be pretty good.”
Is Blackmon a physical freak at WR? If so, let’s just take him and let him be awesome for our team. Can we please have some playmakers to watch for once?
Blackmon is a stud but I also like Michael Floyd from ND. Get as many playmakers as possible regardless of position. I wouldn’t mind that DB from LSU, Mathieu either. Haden, Ward and him, sick!
Today was really disappointing. I don’t even want to look forward to the draft because if it was just based on today I would just want to fire everyone. Well not everyone but a good fraction of the team.
But more rationally speaking, we definitely need playmakers. We might need a quarterback (he sure stunk today), but we really don’t have enough information to know that.
I want a WR1, veteran WR3 (like a Donald Driver type), and two OL who won’t get Colt killed. Anything else would be gravy imo.
YAY NBA!! Wait, that’s not going to go well either….
đ
@C-Bus Kevin… I like your comment. A local-ish example of this would be that kid Brazill from Ohio U. How many receivers will be taken before him and will under-perform him? A guy like MoMass will be taken before him and then everyone will wonder why Brazill is ripping it up somewhere.
This game is a perfect example of why it is great that the Browns went out and signed quality wide receivers and offensive line during the off season. Oh, that’s right they didn’t. Now how the heck do you know what the problem is? Does Colt suck or is it the system? Fun times.
@ Craig
As an OU grad, I love the example, and you’re exactly right!
I may just be a layman in the world of pro sports, but I feel like something happens between the end of the college football season and the draft that gives GMs amnesia (I think they call it the combine). In that purgatory between seasons, everyone starts to invent new reasons to value a player.
How about this…
Did he execute in college? Did he crumble under pressure or excel? How clean was his technique at game speed?
Often, I think the ‘major conference’ thing is blown out of proportion. Just use the eye ball test. If you watched Troy Brown in a game a CMU, you could see he was a fast, crisp route runner with dependable hands. That’s all you need to know. Stats and conference count for little to nothing.
Agreed Cbus. I actually liked watching Mohammad Sanu out of Rutgers a lot this year. He runs good routes and caught anything around him.
@MeandH- I think we have a weak link at QB. The OL played pretty well today, much better then I would have guessed against a strong ravens D. You can say 3 drops and this and that, but they dont change the game too much. and when the browns “drove” down the field to get the TD it was all underneath stuff and let the RBs get some YAC.
O and I would just be weary of Brazill. He may prove me wrong, but he didnt stand out to me as the best player on the field at OU, which I think you should if you are bound for the NFL.
I am with those willing to give H & H until mid-next season to get this ship righted. If we still look like this a year from now, things are going to get real ugly down on the lakeshore.
I was looking forward to a night out at the bar watching the Browns at least compete in PIT on Thursday night. Now I’m thinking I should just save my money…or go see a movie…or anything other than watching that game.
Oh, and if I hear anyone talk about our “#1 rated pass defense”, I think I might vomit. It’s not hard to have the #1 rated pass defense in the league when the other team can run for 300 yards, therefore eliminating any reason to actually try to throw the ball.
I love this site. I’d been looking for a more intelligent Browns crowd, and it looks like I found it.
Now to bring the IQ points down a little.
Seems like we can add a linebacker to the list of things we need…perhaps two. Obviously we’ll need to be a little more active in free agency this coming offseason. Terry Pluto had a nice observation in the PD that I’ve been saying for about 7 weeks now which was along the lines of “how come all the passes seem to be short and over the middle to a guy who is about to be crushed?” -Nickd
I want to know if this is a scheme issue, or an issue with Colt where he is not confident he can deliver the ball downfield. Our offensive line is very outmatched, and that might be a spot where we use free agency to get us some upgrades. Clearly these guys don’t seem to be cutting it.
You watch teams like the Packers and the Saints. Sure their QBs are elite. But a lot of their passes are to WIDE open guys. Schematically, these guys are open. I don’t believe that their wideouts are SO much better than the Browns…with maybe the exception of Jennings. Otherwise, a lot of the time, these guys are just wide open.
The biggest pickup will be the offensive coordinator. Someone needs to call these plays. The HC isn’t cutting it. Going to be interesting if they can find a guy who can call plays who wants to come to Cleveland.
Finally, someone said it above, Norwood appears to be our best receiver. The kid can get open. Reminds me of a poor man’s Reggie Wayne (or a rich man’s Dennis Northcutt??). Quick in and out of cuts, and catches the ball.
Anyone else starting to feel a little like John Connor?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoMhyUkE2Kg
Early in the season I was part of the crowd calling for us to trade our draft for Andrew Luck.. I can’t get behind that any more. We have SOOO many holes that it would be stupid for us to trade that many picks. Right now we are sitting at like 7th pick, roughly. The only way I would take a QB is if Matt Barkley somehow fell that far. If not, I would take Blackmon. If Blackmon isn’t available, I would take Alshon Jeffery. I would not take Trent Richardson because I think that running backs are a dime a dozen and that you don’t need a top-drafted running back in order to succeed in today’s game.
If we get Barkley at QB, I would use the ATL pick to go after Floyd from ND. If we got a WR, I would use the ATL pick to go after a right tackle. So many holes on this team.
My favorite play of the game was when Pashos tripped over his own feet and fell on his back on a screen play and his man ran down the line and made the tackle.
I am also on board with waiting until mid season next year. You can’t blame H&H for what happened with this team before they showed up. I think this draft is setting up for the Browns perfectly. It’s a deep class at QB with Luck, Barkley, Jones, and RG3. It’s also deep at WR with Blackmon, Floyd, and Jeffery. If we can snag 2 of these guys with our first rounds picks I think that would give us some playmakers and hope. Hopefully Atlanta will keep losing. After that if we can address the right side of the line, CB and possibly RB depending on what happens with Hillis we can fill a lot of holes on the team through the draft and free agency.
2009 draft…..#50 – MoMass…#52 Veikune…..#53 (Eagles) – LeSean McCoy…..I was screaming at them to pick McCoy, he was a great value !!…I know drafting is not an exact science but come on….While he may not have been as good as he is today had he come to the Browns, I am standing by the fact that this kid would have been a great fit then and now…….And that from someone who also thinks you should not waste a high draft pick on a running back…..( Oh and just in case anyone forgot…#36 – Brian Robiske…..ughhhhhhh )