While We’re Waiting… Sizemore’s Options, NBPA Cracking and Blue Jacket Coverage
November 2, 2011Kipnis Or The Chiz…Which One Would You Part With?
November 2, 2011Yesterday the Browns cut bait with yet another second-rounder from the 2009 NFL draft. First it was #52 overall David Veikune after he was beaten out by undrafted player, Marcus Benard. Now Brian Robiskie. The 36th overall pick was cut loose after a pretty disappointing career in Cleveland for a guy who was thought to be one of the more “NFL ready” prospects in the draft. At the time he was selected, the big controversy among Browns fans was that the team selected Robiskie with USC linebacker Rey Maualuga on the board. As we all know, Maualuga ended up going to the Bengals where even with some interesting off-field moments it is safe to say he has clearly been a better player. Now, all the Browns have left from a second round where they had three picks is #50 overall, Mohamed Massaquoi.
The Brian Robiskie story is still yet to be told, of course. We’ll have to see if he is able to go somewhere else and perform. After watching him the last couple years and seeing him in camp this pre-season, I have my doubts about him being able to become much more than a reserve. Many people including this writer preached patience with Robiskie because it routinely takes three years for a wide receiver to get it going in the NFL. The Browns apparently have no patience left.
This summer as the Browns were getting to work, the expectations and opportunity for Robiskie were high. The Browns were starting a new offense with Pat Shurmur that was supposed to be more friendly to receivers than the previous one run by Brian Daboll. Robiskie also had a chance to shine with the early injuries to #1 receiver Mohamed Massaquoi. What transpired was Robiskie getting muscled at the line of scrimmage by Sheldon Brown constantly and other names like Greg Little and Jordan Norwood ended up grabbing the available spotlight.
I won’t claim to know exactly what was going on with Brian Robiskie. Is he just soft? Did he feel entitled? Was he lazy? I honestly have no idea. What I know is that Robiskie seemed to lack any sense of urgency in drills all throughout training camp. Even when he would gain separation from his defender you couldn’t help but sense his nonchalance as he finished plays or ran back to the huddle. I wrote about how I thought Robiskie was going to lose his job and I wasn’t alone writing that. If anything it makes me wonder why it took Pat Shurmur multiple weeks of real live football to figure it out as Robiskie started the season atop the depth chart for #2 WR across from Massaquoi.
Much like David Veikune was marginalized by undrafted free agent Marcus Benard, this weekend, Jordan Norwood sealed Robiskie’s fate. While the Browns offense again struggled and Norwood didn’t exactly light up the box score, he did provide Colt McCoy some relief in the passing game. Norwood was quick in his routes and cuts and managed to create enough separation for the struggling McCoy to find him five times for 32 yards. With an offense as challenged as the Browns’ has been, that is a notable amount of production.
Notable amounts of production are a relative thing and ultimately Robiskie’s production was relatively little. Nobody was rooting harder for him than Browns fans, including many crossover fans who also root for the Buckeyes. It just didn’t work out. I hope he turns it around and finds a place to resurrect his career, but I can hardly blame the Browns for cutting him loose.
56 Comments
It’s unfortunate when anyone loses their job but the Browns couldn’t keep this guy around anymore. It was just a matter of time. Good luck Robo.
Don’t let the door hit you.
As a non-OSU fan, I never had any attachment to this guy. Hated the pick from day one.
Hey Bri! Welcome to Browns Backers Alumni weekend … whoa whoa, you’re going this way, into the Second Round Suckitude Suite. Let me introduce you around, you’ll like these guys, no felons or injury sob-stories in this room, just guys who scouts or coaches or GMs fell crazy in love with for no good reason, guys who couldn’t play.
I know you know Veikune. This is Chaun Thompson, and that’s Patrick Rowe, Greg Allen, Keith Baldwin, Cleveland Crosby –don’t get up Cleves, you couldn’t even back in the day – Lawrence Johnson, hey- Oscar Roan! And this is Mark Ilgenfritz (don’t ask).
Don’t worry, I’m sure Robiskie can hook up with Troy Smith on a UFL roster somewhere.
YES WE CAN!
@ stin4u: And, why couldn’t they keep him around? You said it: He wasn’t producing at the NFL level. Why we waited this long to let go of him is beyond me. Why we spent a second rounder on him is beyond ridiculous.
The only reason I can come up with for keeping him as long as we did is that we spent a 2nd rounder on him I guess. But you really need to know when to leave the Titanic, no matter how expensive the room is.
Can we name other members of the Browns players/staff that haven’t been producing in the NFL that we need to be rid of?
@oribiasi – I know I can’t believe Shurmur/Heckert/Holmgren drafted hi….oh yeah they didn’t. Point made.
Actually, rooted for this guy. Didn’t get arrested, didn’t get pouty to the media, had decent hands and some football smarts. But if you can only get open when a play breaks down, or you’re boring a db to death, or a defense is in a prevent that gives you a 5 yard cushion, the WR position is probably not for you.
Always worried that he was a guy that had a lot of college success surrounded by great talent and using professional tricks his father had taught him, but when he reached the pros with physically superior opponents those tricks weren’t near enough. He couldn’t get off the line of scrimmage. Kind of like what happened to Danny Ferry in the NBA, finding himself suddenly unable to create his own shot when that was a strength in college.
@ stin4u: Wow, no one gets anything by you.
THE POINT was they held onto him, even after reviewing his play or lack thereof. That they were “satisfied” with the guys we had at wide-receiver in the beginning of the season should be disappointing to anyone with two brain cells to rub together. That one of those guys they were “satisfied” with has been cut from the team is also disheartening.
It sure seems like the right move to me… Robiskie is a guy who can’t get separation from defenders and who isn’t fast/strong enough (or a good enough blocker/tackler) to play on special teams, so what do you do with a guy like that? He’s had almost 2.5 seasons to show he can play at this level… I think that’s long enough. Besides, let’s not feel sorry for Robo… he is going to make plenty of money with his NFL connections and his degree in marketing.
@ oribiasi:
“Can we name other members of the Browns players/staff that haven’t been producing in the NFL that we need to be rid of?”
R A N D Y L E R N E R.
@ Subadai: Yikes, don’t say that name. I actually don’t mind the absentee landlord of Lerner, because he did make the choice to go with Holmgren which on paper seems very smart. It hasn’t played out very well yet, but the holy mantra here is the zombie-like “give him more time” so that’s where we’re at.
It’s a tough chicken/egg-esque debate. Obviously, knowing that the Browns now play the 4-3, Maualuga would have been the undeniable selection for the weak side. That said, had Mangini not completely botched that entire 2009 draft, the Browns may not be playing the 4-3 today…
Sure is fun watching LeSean McCoy rack up top-five rushing totals, eh?
Am I the only Browns fan who doesn’t blame Mangini for the failed 2009 draft? Randy Lerner showed up on his doorstep with a dump truck full of cash one day and Mangini took the job he was offered. Then everyone realized “Uh oh, we will never get a GM worth his salt here, because that theoretical GM will want to hire his own coach” So, they hired Kokinis, which people blame on Mangini, but again, not really so much his fault.
Kokinis had no business running a draft, and neither did Mangini. But its not like the screwed the pooch intentionally. They did what they thought was a good job. Who put grossly unqualified people in charge of something they had no business being in charge of?
The blame for all of this, as with most of the misery we have experienced since 2003, lies directly at the feet of one Randolph D. Lerner.
wait, must every Browns comment thread now be dominated by people goading Oribiasi and his replies to each one?
Back to the future. Oribiasi = 2011’s Randy/OSU.
OBSERVE.
Don’t get down in the mouth Brian – your boys MoMass, Carlton, and Jordan are right behind ya!
@ Harv 21: You know, I must be plucking on some nerve strings somewhere in the latent regions of many of the commenter brains (some more than other, ahem), so perhaps that means I know what I’m talking about.
I have no idea who the hell this other person you are referring to is/was, but I can assure you I don’t say what I say here just to cause commotion. I mean it and from the look of most of the Browns threads, there are plenty of people who agree with me, and plenty who disagree. That doesn’t mean anyone is goading anyone else on, so relax.
@oribiasi – Is there a good reason you take so much offense to literally everything I say?
This year was an evaluation year for the new staff to see what we had. Anyone with half a brain looking at our situation would know that. Changing offenses and trying to fit the old regimes’ players into it to see how they perform. Sure Robiskie hadn’t been productive but there was no way to tell for sure in the new system till they ran him out on the field. Same with all these guys. It turns out they aren’t very talented and it’s something they’ll need to address in the coming draft, case closed. It’s not like they lied to us, they said they’ll build through the draft, so don’t act like it’s some big deal that they didn’t sign a FA wide-out.
@ stin4u: I take offense to your complacency, that is all. I see it in Pat Shurmur’s “I’ll see you Wednesday!” approach to coaching a professional football team and it makes me sick. We, as fans, deserve better.
Also, how do you explain the coaches statements that they were happy with the WR corps before the season? That would mean they already evaluated their talent; that they were smart enough to work a film projector, watch what they did last year, see them in practice, and then make a decision. And, that decision was “we are fine with what we have.”
Or, are you saying they didn’t know how to do that…in which case, you’re saying that they are incompetent…which is the same thing I have been saying.
And if you hinge your argument on “Pat needed to see them in 7 real NFL games before making his decision” I am going to projectile vomit through the internet onto your face.
@oribiasi – “I take offense to your complacency, that is all”
I’m the complacent one? O.K.
Sure, I bet they looked at these guys on tape and saw things they liked and didn’t like, things that they knew they could work on and try to coach up. But until you put them in the system and let them run it you don’t know for sure. Are you saying they should have a crystal ball and know that player x can or can’t translate well to the WCO? Give me a break.
Here’s what I mean. There was a time early on this site when one commenter’s strong opinions repeated over and over again, and other commenter’s and writer’s reactions to him, dominated the comments section. Eventually he left, or was escorted out. Until that happened other commenters were getting a might sick of that dominating the comments and sometimes stayed away. I know this because that’s what they were writing in their comments.
I do NOT place you quite in that category, but the repetition of the same comments daily and the same reactions are starting to dominate these threads as they did then. Just hoping everyone self-edits to keep it enjoyable for everyone. I sometimes agree with you, and enjoy what you write in any case. But if everyone voluntarily curbs their own instincts to have the very last word on the same point it will keep the site enjoyable for all readers.
Just making my own observation.
Craig, this is where your hyper-rational approach hits a wall. Sometimes, a drafted player (e.g. Robiskie, Veikune, Massaquoi(?)), a strategy (e.g. not throwing downfield, not setting the QB up in a shotgun, etc), or a front office decision (e.g. Holmgren speaking to Seattle media before Cleveland) is just wrong and can’t be rationalized away over time.
Often, peoples’ intuitions (i.e. Maualuga over Robiskie, duh) are valid, and less prone to error than over-analysis. A good read on this is “Blink” by Malcolm Gladwell.
I would caution you against taking some “rational” moral highground vis-a-vis the “lesser intellects” of the Cleveland sports fan base.
@14- That’s how I feel. Ownership put Mangini in a position to fail. That’s not to defend his draft, mind you. He didn’t exactly draft well in NY, yet they still gave him the power here. Why? And he sure as heck wasn’t going to turn that down once ownership offered. No coach would.
I believe that EVERY coach, GM, or front office person in every sport will hang themselves if you give them enough rope. You see it happen quite frequently- guys who get a little success and then want to run their own draft, bring in their own FA, call their own plays, or whatever it might be. Seems like that when that happens, nine times out of ten, things fall apart.
Thank you Harv.
@ Harv 21: Well said, and I would submit that if anything I say appears repetitious then so would the responses that are contra what I say. So, we’re all guilty of this. I’m actually an alright guy who wants to take pride in his city’s professional sports teams. If I get escorted out for that then we should all be given our walking papers.
It might also be possible that I am showing a consistent problem with the current regime (I hate that word) that at first was challenged but, with more evidence, is becoming more apparent. It was glaring to me the whole time, so it is frustrating to see all of the evidence pile up and still see non-believers. I hope you can understand that.
I think humboldt hit on a good point though. Trying to pigeon-hole reactions to ineptitude on the field as being “knee-jerk” is a clean way of dealing with problems you’d prefer not to see. It’s not constructive.
“I would caution you against taking some “rational” moral highground vis-a-vis the “lesser intellects” of the Cleveland sports fan base.” Wow. That is quite the strawman you’ve set up Humbolt. I’ll let Craig take on your comment himself but at no point have those of us asking for others to take a rational step back off the ledge said the Browns FO, coaches or players are immune to criticism.
And, as for your Maualuga over Robiskie point, I might remind you the masses also wanted Taylor Mayes over TJ Ward. How did that one work out? We can play that game all day long.
I have no doubt you’re a great guy. Except … tell me your avatar is not Chemical Ali.
Is oribiasi isis?
Anyway, it’s about time. I liked him b/c he was an Ohio guy, but it was pretty clear that it wasn’t going to work for him here. And it drove me insane when I’d see him on the field. So, at least I don’t have to worry about that anymore.
@ Harv 21: Haha, it’s Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf, otherwise know as “Baghdad Bob,” or on SNL as “Comical Ali.”
Remember, he was the guy saying “We will throw the infidels out of Baghdad, they are not even in our airport yet,” and at the same time our tanks were like in the background of his broadcast blowing stuff up.
In my avatar, he is saying “The Browns are not regressing!” and “Pat Shurmur is smart!” and he is saying it with the same accuracy of his statements about the coalition forces. 🙂
Yeah, that’s right, remember him. The real Chem Ali was older, shorter and less, uh, forthcoming in his public pronouncements. Well played.
@Humboldt
I am quite frequently and admittedly wrong, but I’d like to think that my hyper-rational approach brings an evenness to the conversation. Quite often my opinion is that I haven’t come to a conclusion yet when everyone else has. I have to tell you that it would have been really easy (and driven a lot more traffic) after being at training camp this year to write an article saying “THE BROWNS SHOULD CUT BRIAN ROBISKIE NOW!!!!!” I actually was more aggressive and direct with my opinions in emails after seeing him, but I just didn’t think it was valuable or fair to do anything more than intimate Robiskie could see reduced playing time or a downgrade on the depth chart.
I’ve read “Blink” and I agree with it when it comes to decision making. In this case where I am providing analysis it is somewhat less applicable. Tom Heckert’s decision to take Joe Haden is a good example of the “Blink” concepts. He could have probably over-thought that and decided against Joe Haden like many in the media would have.
But with successes, the “Blink” method also puts you in a situation where Mike Holmgren feels the Browns need to take Colt McCoy. The results of that decision are decidedly up in the air with some real potential downside at this point, right?
@Mark, the problem I have is that there has been a bizarre trend on this site for certain people to claim the highground based on their thoroughgoing analytic approach. That’s fine, I like rationality too – I’m a scientist.
What I don’t like is condescension, or people who advance zero sum arguments (i.e. if you’re not rational about this, you’re clearly wrong).
Obviously living in the world and trying to decipher truth from falsehood requires being analytical – that’s why the Enlightenment was so important. But things like intuition and emotion are also important ways of knowing the world, and even people like Einstein believed things like “imagination is more important than knowledge”.
I’m digressing a bit here, and this is getting all epistemological very quickly, but my point is that somewhere in between the “Craigian” approach to sports and the totally overboard irrational approach lies a healthy balance of reason and emotion, analytical versus intuitive thinking that makes being a fan fun. Lots not get all caught up in our own rectitude so that we denigrate people who don’t think like us.
Wow that draft class was bad… Just another reminder. All the ‘we want gini back’ guys need to remember who he drafted as well.
Robo was drafted too soon, which put undue pressure on him. He clearly wasn’t up for the challenge, for whatever reason(s) despite adequate chances. Had he been a 5th or 6th rounder, this isn’t even a blip on the radar. Good kid, enjoyed watching him at OSU, wish him well in the future.
My only problem with this – and I know everyone is tired of Mangini getting brought into every Browns arguement – is that Holmgren spent last year publically calling out the coaches and offensive system by saying the wide receivers were much better than they looked. Grossi was adament about this, that Robeskie and the others only suffered from being in a terrible offensive system.
Well, we are almost half way through the season in the new system, and Robeskie is cut, MM is about the same as last year, Carlton Mitchell still can’t see the field, and our best receiver wasn’t on the roster last year. Oh, and one of our best offensive weapons, Moore, barely sees the field in the new system. Yet the same people who railed the old coaches for the underperformance of the receivers are now using the receivers as excuses for the new coaches.
I trust Heckert and Holmgrens talent evaluations thus far, but it is just odd they would publically call out the coaches last year over wide receivers that are obviously not good.
@32- please refer to comment 14
We need to hire coaches to coach, not to run the draft. We need to hire GM’s to oversee the coach and run personnel. Presidents to hire the GM.
I am hopeful things will work out this time. This is the situation we have, and there is no going back (even if Mangini was the best coach {I said coach, not GM, or person in charge of picking the players} we have had).
As such, Shurmur needs to hire an OC now. Like yesterday. He hasn’t proven he can even handle to duties of being a head coach. As a result, what makes anyone think he can be the head coach AND the OC? Furthermore, what cache does Shurmur have where he can come in calling shots to H&H (i.e “I’m my own OC”).
It all goes back to the poor decision being made at the top of the pyramid since 2003 (at least). Im at the end of the rope with “giving people time and letting them get their systems in place” etc. etc. I’m upset with the organization as a whole. I hope every day and every week that things will get better. I hope some day someone will fall out of the sky and end up being a sixth rounder who makes 10 consecutive pro bowls. I hope I hope I hope
Until then, I am disgusted with how this team is run and I have no sympathy for them at all. If you are getting paid 10 million a year to do anything, you better produce results. You better not need half a season to evaluate a guy who everyone and their mother already knew could not cut the mustard.
Never in my life have I simultaneously loved and hated a team so much. I will never stop rooting for the guys on the field. That I can guarantee you
He’s a Buckeye, so obviously we should draft him.
@stin – i usually agree with what you say around here but i have ONE issue with your post #20:
YES. i expect any – i mean ANY – NFL person with a management position to be able to tell you that Brian Roblitzkie would not be able to translate well into the WCO, into special teams, or, more generally, into any sort of starting NFL WR.
C’mon, you know this, too.
Honestly who the heck cares about this guy. He was just a guy. I don’t see full page spreads written about the other draft picks we cut. Who CARES that he went to OSU? This city’s fascination with him was so dumb.
Thank God I’ll never have to read any more stupid articles about “Where’s Brian Robiskie?” when what we should be asking is “Where was Jordan Norwood?” after he actually MADE SOME PLAYS.
It seems worth mentioning here that “Robiskie was touted as the most game-ready wideout of the [2009 draft] class,” as noted by Pro Football Talk this morning.
Go back and read the draft profiles on Robiskie, remember what a mess the Browns had at WR in ’09 (including with Braylon having come off a season where he led the league in drops, and chastised Cleveland fans for not appreciating him enough after a 35-6 blowout by the Eagles on MNF).
Looking at the facts available at the time, call Robiskie a bad pick, then pat yourself on the back for your 20/20 hindsight.
There’s really no such thing as a “good decision.” There’s just having good reasons for making decisions, following through, and hoping for the best. Sometimes you take a good swing and miss anyway. There’s literally nothing to suggest that the decision to draft Robiskie was anything but that.
“Rick: I keep reading and hearing about how polished Brian Robiskie is. Yes, he may run crisp routes, but does any Buckeye fan really like this pick? Was Robo really that great a player for the Buckeyes? I think we need to hope for a Chris Sanders type career from Robo.”
From our draft grades piece, April 27th 2009.
https://waitingfornextyear.com/2009/04/wfny-grades-the-2009-browns-draft/
I seem to remember having several conversations here at WFNY about reaching for Robo.
@oribiasi I miss the bunny avatar. Baghdad Bob seems too political for my taste.
I’m not upset over Robo being waived. I’m more upset that 2/3 of our 2nd round picks have been busts. MoMass may make it 3 for 3.
@Frowns – It’s funny what we remember and forget about these picks and how much our memories are clouded by subsequent events. I recall from the commenters here at WFNY a general thumbs up for the Mo Mass pick, a lot of questions about the Viekuna pick and a general ‘too early’ on the Robiskie pick. Who knows how accurate that is.
Rick beat me to it with a nice link thrown it too. Thanks Rick.
@ Frowns – Oh come on man, Pro Football Talk? Really? So maybe Mangini used that website as his defacto draft expert somehow speaks well for Mangini and bad for the MANY people that thought Robo was a reach?
I love OSU and never EVER thought Robo was going to amount to squat. I also like Pro Football Talk for some of the things they do (or seemingly used to do), primarily the gossipy stuff that the general media doesn’t cover. But the “NFL ready” stuff regarding Robo was lazy and hackish based soley on the fact that he was a coach’s son.
@ crobarred: Sadly, that poor little bunny went to glory a few months back, so I was getting teary eyes whenever I saw it. She was only 6!!! =0(
Perhaps I’ll put the new bunny up there if/when I have a chance.
Let’s hope MoMass can be a quick receiver option in an improved receiving corps we will mythically have one day. I have hopes that he can still turn out alright because he has had flashes of good stuff. And flashes of crap, too. With Robo, it was all crap.
@Harv21 #21
Are you talking about boogeyman ?
Also, oribiasi, whatever else I think about your opinions: I think your Baghdad Bob avatar is hilarious.
More from the draft grades piece that Rick linked…
Pick We’d like Back if Possible: Round 2, Pick 4
Rock: “I think picking Robo over Maualuga will haunt the Browns for years to come, especially since they will have to face him twice every season. They had a chance to take a first round caliber LB in the 2nd round. I’ll probably never understand why, because we’ll probably never know what it was about Rey that turned off not only the Browns, but every other team, so much.”
Denny: “Robo for [an] impact LB (see Rey Rey). Robo or Massaquoi would have still been available with the next pick.”
TD: “I sound like a broken record -Brian Robiske over Rey Maualuga. I don’t care what his Wunderlich score was or if he may be shady off the field (according to reports), they kid is a player. Everytime I saw him, he looked like a dominator to me. Now he gets to play with the added chip on his shoulder of being passed over in the first round, and he will do so in the AFC North (Cincinnati).”
Rick: “Coming in I didn’t really like the overall depth of this draft, so adding late round picks doesn’t excite me. I have to look at the Robiskie pick here. I don’t know that there was a WR I liked better, but there were certainly LBs that would have made the Browns better. Perhaps 2 of those 2nd round picks could have been packaged to get back into the end of the first round and get a RB? Even (LeSean) McCoy would have been nice with the Veikune pick.”
DP: “Sorry, OSU fans, but you won’t convince me Robiskie was the right pick at that spot. I think he’ll help this year in a Steve Smith (NY Giants’ version) kind of way, but no way was he the 36th best player in the draft. Especially when they took another WR at 50.”
Scott: “As much as I think Brian Robiskie will be a great receiver for this team, I would have rather had Alphonso Smith or Darius Butler at the corner or Everette Brown on the outside. Sure, Malaluga was there, but I’m firmly in the camp that thinks this guy is a two-down player and would be better suited in a 4-3. Cincy can have him.”
Craig: “This has been cause for much debate, but I would still like the first 2nd round pick back. I think in hindsight there were a lot of people on the board that could help the Browns more than Brian Robiskie.”
not boogeyman. First identity was Randy/OSU and then changed to another name which now escapes me. Ended long rants with all caps: OBSERVE.
Harv – Isis