Open Thread: Browns vs. 49ers
October 30, 2011While We’re Waiting… More on Braxton, Irving Opens Up and Tribe Hot Stove
October 31, 2011
Imagine that? The Browns were 9.5 point underdogs and they lost by 10 points to the San Francisco 49ers. The Browns were their own worst enemy all game long fumbling the ball and generally not having any kind of tempo on offense. So the Browns fall to 3-4 and will need to lick their wounds quickly before heading to Houston to face the 5-3 Texans.
Injuries were again a big part of the story for the Browns. Peyton Hillis didn’t play as pretty much everyone expected by the end of last week. That would have been bad enough, except Montario Hardesty went down with a calf injury after just two carries. The Browns were forced to overload Chris Ogbonnaya for the rest of the game as he was the only active runner left on the active roster for the Browns. How far we’ve come since we thought the Browns were coming into this season with Peyton Hillis, Brandon Jackson and the oft-injured prospect, Montario Hardesty.
On the (not all that) bright side, the offense finally found receiver Jordan Norwood. For a Browns team that has struggled this much on offense, 5 catches for 32 yards is an absolute revelation for Colt McCoy. Norwood was quick in and out of his routes and seemed to provide the safety valve that McCoy hasn’t been able to find all season long. In the end though the Browns walk out of another game wondering what they can possibly do to get the offense to play well enough to win.
Despite some early struggles, that was again not a question for the Browns’ defense. The Browns’ defense only really gave up 13 points on their own. The offense gift-wrapped the first seven with a Colt McCoy fumble thanks to Tony Pashos whiffing on his “block.” The 49ers started from the Cleveland 20 a mere 0:50 into the game.
Admittedly, the Browns’ defense got gashed early and scarily by the 49ers and Frank Gore. Gore finished the game with 134 yards and a TD. That isn’t a great stat for the Browns’ defense, but they held pretty tightly in a bend-don’t-break fashion. The Browns defense held the 49ers to 6-15 on third down.
The goal line stand that the Browns defense executed on Frank Gore and company was inspirational in the second quarter. The 49ers thought they scored, but it was called back when it was realized that Frank Gore’s elbow was down before he crossed the plane. On 2nd and 1, D’Qwell jackson blew the play up for a one yard loss behind the push of the defensive line. On 3rd and 2 to goal, the Browns held again thanks to DQ and Jabaal Sheard. Finally, the Browns stopped Gore on 4th down with inches before Gore would have crossed the goal line.
The Browns’ defense deserved better even though they couldn’t keep the 49ers from kicking a field goal when the Browns offense got the game within one touchdown at 17-10. It is very hard to blame them yet again.
This is the NFL and there are no excuses, so I don’t expect anyone to forgive a losing effort. That being said, it is hard to not look honestly at a Browns offense that had the goal of finding themselves this season when they can’t seem to keep any consistent personnel on the field week to week. Colt McCoy is still not playing as we would like him to, and Pat Shurmur still looks a bit overwhelmed at times, but it is really hard to figure out what kind of gameplan you can call that would put a brand new crew of players into the right positions to succeed.
This is certainly not the progress we hope to see, but the problems are obvious at least. There are no reinforcements coming through that door, so we’ll just have to watch and hope a few lights turn on for Pat Shurmur, his offensive staff and players. Hopefully next week the Browns will also do battle with a full complement of running backs and receivers. They’re bad enough when they aren’t playing short-handed.
(Photo by Ezra Shaw/Getty Images)
51 Comments
Why do we continue to script plays to start the game. Obviously they arent working. Also, the offense looks somewhat capable when in the hurry-up or even quick/loose huddle mode. Granted we’ve only seen it against mostly prevent D, but its enough to want to look at it early and throughout the game as a weapon this O can go to to get momentum. I dont care about the injuries or anything. They arent the difference in this O. Much better questions should be brought up about this inept O.
Aww man… I didn’t get too see this game… but it sounds like I have seen it many, many times over the last 5 years. When is this ever going to end?
Did Carlton mitchell see a snap ?
Does anyone else feel the “we were right there in this game near the end” quotes coming from Pat in the presser?
Injuries happen – this is the NFL. I’m tired of hearing about it.
There has been absolutely NO improvement week to week for this team. This is fast approaching unwatchable. This is Romeo caliber football. I can’t take it.
@3- I didnt notice him on offense but a few ST plays.
@4- The presser was a joke. No questions about the inept offense. about 6 about injuries though. no questions about the lack of hurry-up, the decision to punt 4 and 2 from their 40 or any of the sort.
The consistent offensive regression is beyond disappointing. The play-calling is predictable and often illogical (why are all routes far short of the sticks?), the WRs can’t get open, the execution poor, the blocking shaky, the QB is making too many poor decisions, and the RBs are all hurt. It’s just depressing to watch.
If they had a legitimate WR threat (and Steinbach back) I think it would help them in so many different ways, but meanwhile it is going to continue to be horrible to be a Browns’ fan.
@Craig
“it is really hard to figure out what kind of gameplan you can call that would put a brand new crew of players into the right positions to succeed.”
Why don’t we see any sort of vertical passing game, specifically to players like Evan Moore, Greg Little and Jordan Norwood? These guys have shown some ability to get separation, and yet we just seem unwilling to hazard any throws downfield.
For a pro team, it really can’t be this difficult, can it?
Defense held their own again. Didn’t play great, but kept us in the game. Seems to be their M.O.
Offense was offensive, as usual. I will say that Colt keeps showing me just enough at certain times that I don’t want to give up on him. A practice squad guy at RB, missing his #1 (and I use that loosely) WR in MoMass, and the O-line is below average as a whole. All that considered, he played OK…made a terrible decision throwing into double coverage in the end zone.
Looking like 5-11, maybe 6-10 again. That’s if Hillis returns and is even close to what he was last year. We have a shot against STL, JAX, CIN, and ARZ. Maybe we win 2-3 of those. Maybe we even jump up and surprise PIT or BAL once, but I doubt it.
Hillis is the elixir for the team. a stud BR who can catch the ball out of the backfield is EXACTLY what we need. it would draw one of the LB’s out of coverage. for now, the opposing D’s have no respect for our running game, or for our RB’s in the passing game.
P Hillis makes a defense think twice about blitzing a linebacker and leaving him open to catch a hot-read. they aren’t afraid of “No Hands Hardesty” or of this Nigerian dude, whatever his name is.
i wrote stud BR, i meant stud RB, obviously.
also i really think Shurmur is in over his head. you have to go for it on that late 4th and 2. i would love to know the thought process there.
@9- I dont buy the injuries or anything as an excuse. Its not like wrs dont run deep. McCoy just cant find the open spots to throw. Hes having a lot of problems with presnap reads. There have been many instances this season where the D is getting a running start to the line bc colt isnt switching the snap counts or anything. it doesnt help the OL trying to make the right reads when you see guys running at you right when you can start moving.
@Bobby
McCoy can’t find the open spots to thrown when the defense is basically able to pin their ears back because they know what’s coming.
Shurmur’s scripted play calling is painfully obvious and he has Colt under center in long yardage distances.
Could Colt audible based on a read better? Yes. Could Colt change his snap count or cadence more? Yes.
Add those to the list of ALL the holes in the offense right now.
And because there are SO many holes; playcalling, right side line struggles, starting skill position players that wouldn’t be a 2nd option on other teams, no run threat and no vertical game is why you can’t put it all on Colt at this point.
If McCoy has Hillis (or another 100 yard per game RB), a right side line and Blackmon next year and still can’t get it done; then he deserves the boot.
@ 12 – You call it excuses, I call it a realistic assessment of our situation. Yes, injuries are a part of the game. Some teams have the depth to overcome them, some don’t. We obviously don’t.
McCoy certainly has some shortcomings. His accuracy has been inconsistent and I agree with you on the pre-snap reads. I’m not sure if he’s the guy. I’m starting to think that he isn’t…but it’s just so damn hard to tell when he’s always running for his life because of the patchwork O-line and depending on rookies practice squad caliber players to make plays. I can’t think of another team with less offensive talent on the field than we had today, and he still put up respectable numbers.
Hopefully Hillis returning can get us back to respectability on offense (if we were ever there to begin with).
something I haven’t seen brought up yet…. the end of the game management. Why does it seem like every week it takes up 30 seconds to get up to the ball & snap it when other teams can do this in 5 seconds. We have all the WRs run to Colt & see what they should do. How about get open & get out of bounds?
Obonnaya caught a pass & decided to run for an extra 2 yds instead of get out then the next play (our last) Colt threw it 5 yds to the middle of the field. If you’re going to give up, why not try for a TD? at least make your stats look better.
Newt
Next week lets run no huddle right out the gate to get our offense some tempo and to get a lot of people involved. Colt likes to throw short passes anyways and is fairly accurate as well. We also have no running game at all especially if we dont have hillis and hardesty.
1. hillis is chronically injured. he has calcification in his thigh. move on.
2. there will be no vertical threat as long as colt cant take a three step drop without feeling pressure. how will it work on a five step?
3. heckert punted the season by not replacing steinbach immediately when he was injured in pre-season.
3a. free agents can be signed and seasons can be decent while simultaneously ‘building for the future.’
4. youve been sold a bill of goods on lauvao.
5. ditto pashos.
7. shurmur was a crap OC last year. it should be no surprise that he is a crap OC this year.
8. the offensive coaching staff cannot game plan and nor can they make in-game adjustments. six points in 1st quarter, three points in 3rd quarter to date. empirical evidence that they’re at best ‘still learning’ but more probably ‘wholly unqualified’ is more accurate.
9. the defense plays hard.
Really question shurmur, run playaction on a 3rd & 12 and McCoy gets sacked he should be in shotgun to get more time to throw like does he really feel like hes gonna fool the D running playaction on a 3rd and long play its obvious pass.
You know what? Today I really got the feeling that this whole season is one big pre-season camp. The last couple of plays of the game just didn’t make any sense. As Lyon said, why the short passes thru mid field??? If you are down 10 points, and there 44 seconds left, we should be huddling a lot faster and throw the ball into the end zone. I am starting to believe that the front office considered this year to be wash regardless what would happen. Find out about the WR’s, line backers and O-line and draft accordingly. Build the lines first, the QB will be dealt with after that. Next year, the building should be close to be done, and then McCoy really needs to prove himself. And I think I am actually ok with that. This year sucks. Depending on what McCoy does next year, next year might suck too. But I believe at that pointn we will have a great D and an up and coming O.
Anybody else notice what the the Bengals and Panthers are doing w/ ROOKIE QBs? I’m in SW ohio so I got the Bengals game today and saw Dalton make at least five throws that McCoy couldn’t make in his dreams. This is an arm talent league. McCoy doesn’t have a big arm and his accuracy and awareness are highly suspect.
We all need to be prepared for some EPIC failures from him in the second half as our schedule gets harder and McCoy keeps putting bad performances on tape for DC’s like Lebeau to salivate over.
I hate to say it but I fear we haven’t seen the worst from McCoy yet. I predict that he wont finish at least 4 games that he starts the rest of the year and he may not start 2 or more… and not because of injury.
We will also be drafting a QB high next year… again. Sigh.
@JImkanicki:
“there will be no vertical threat as long as colt cant take a three step drop without feeling pressure. how will it work on a five step?”
Idea 1: Throw vertically on non-passing downs (i.e. first or second down)
Idea 2: Use the shotgun more
Idea 3: Run more no-huddle w/ McCoy in shotgun
Idea 4: Don’t run superfluous playaction fakes on obvious passing downs
I would love to be told why these are bad or untenable ideas
@Humboldt
Because that is not the “west coast offense”.
That was Mangini/Daboll last year…….and what do you know, it was working better than this.
Meant to add above (and I’d be surprised only one person did, if there weren’t such a laundry list here) that the pre-snap counts are so predictable it’s scary. Did anyone notice how often Willis and the other ILB were timing the snap? Bad, bad fundamentals. The lack of hurry in the Browns’ hurry-up offense (all weeks) is also troubling.
Frigging use Moore and Watson TOGETHER already. Enough with the pay action/fakes. Stick McCoy’s a$$ in the shotgun period it’s not like the defense is respecting any RB not named Hillis anyways.
I’m not going to shred McCoy because he isn’t getting much help on or off the field. The WRs are some of the worst in the league and the fact the coaches don’t overuse the TEs is beyond annoying. Add in an OL that has basically 2 guys and there you go.
When McCoy does make a pass a third of the time his pass is dropped. Long story short: this offseason there better be a serious infusion of talent on offense I.e. 1 or 2 WR, RG, RT and a real life RB. After that I want a young, fast actual living LB.
@humboldt – Colt can’t throw a spiral/accurate ball further than 8 yards. That’s actually the main reason we don’t attempt to execute vertically.
The defense is good, but the offense is not NFL caliber for a couple reasons.
First, the personnel on this offense are not up to professional standards. There are some bright spots…Thomas, Cribbs (in flashes), Little is coming along, Mack, Moore, Watson. However, there’s not much to talk about beyond that. The main goal of an offense is to score points (obviously), and these guys are in the bottom 5. The receivers as a whole are leading the league in drops with 4 or 5 more than they had ALL LAST SEASON. They need better players…period.
Secondly, Shurmur’s play-calling has been suspect, and this week was the worst yet. I want to stop the coaching changes more than most, but who is this guy? Who passes the ball 5 yards behind the LOS on 3rd and two after OBVIOUSLY attempting to “fool” the defense by putting Little in the backfield.
Who uses play-action on 3rd and 12? Who calls timeout when you have the opposing defense on the ropes after two long completions? Who continually calls for 4 yard passes when you need 8? Who puts their QB under center on 3rd and long?
Shurmur just keeps doing two things that drive me nuts. He doesn’t play to his personnel’s strengths (no shotgun, no no-huddle, etc.) and he makes the offense go backwards to go forwards (too many plays short of the marker and too many developing deep in the backfield).
For crying it loud, every team that plays the Browns knows how to roll out a tight end fir 10 yards…the 49ers were doing it with DEFENSIVE linemen. Why does this team look so amateurish?
Also, the defense was not at all responsible for this loss. 10 points isn’t enough to win the majority of NFL games. The defense did the best they could to keep the blowout from happening.
A few things…..
1. I wasn’t able to watch the game here in Columbus, but was Game Casting. At the end of the game with a minute left, no TOs, down by 10, and on the SF 33 yard line, why didn’t we kick the field goal immediately? You have to give the offense as much time as possible to score the TD (assuming we even recover the onside), and wasting time there is a bad call. Not just picking on Shurmur, but it seems to me that this is coaching 101 yet you see coaches screw it up all the time.
2. What really is the difference between the SF and Cleveland offenses (when hillis is healthy)? So-So QB with a weaker/avg. arm, Stud RB, Two Good Tight Ends and a questionable receiving corps. I’m not all that familiar with their O-line, but it seems to me like the main difference would be coaching, more specifically play calling.
This may seem like a sky is falling/pointing fingers post, but it really isn’t. I’m still on board with the team and realize all good things come with time, but it’s only human to expect a little better results than what we’re getting.
Another thing that bothered me with game management was that our field goal unit was not running on the field to make it a one possession game with 20 seconds left. That gives us a chance to recover an onside kick and toss one in the end zone — if our special teams unit has practiced an onside kick because they obviously haven’t been working on blocking for field goals.
@Chuck….beat you to it by about a minute! haha
At Reep…
I watched the game and I feel that I can safely say that the 9ers are way ahead of the Browns on offense. Alex Smith looked above average. They have some quality receivers, and Gore is better (and more often available) than Hillis.
I often end up tracking the games on gamecast as well. You needed to see this Browns offense today to fully grasp the ineptitude. For instance, on 3rd and 2, the standard gamecast “completion to Little for -2 yards” doesn’t explain the fact that Little was first motioned into the backfield and thrown to 5 yards behind the line on a swing pass.
I agree 100% with everything C-Bus Kevin said. Shurmur’s playcalling and personnel use have been highly suspect, and I think that’s a kind assessment. His game management has also been garbage. I am still aggravated that he punted on 4th and 2 from the SF 39 yard line down 14 over halfway through the 3rd quarter. I
know the defense was playing well at that point, but with an anemic offense there simply wasn’t time to play a field position game. Plus I think it sends a terrible message to your offensive players that you as a coach don’t think they can pick up 2 yards in a crucial situation. Given the personnel they have, maybe they wouldn’t have been able to, but you give yourself a much better chance of winning the game by going for it there than you do by punting. He might have well just have forfeited.
Bottom line – I know it’s his first year and there’s been injuries and they didn’t get a full camp, etc, but there are some VERY troubling things I’m seeing from Shurmur that I dont think can be explained away with those excuses above.
This is why the Front Office should have a least signed some free agent receivers this off season. I respect that they want to build through the draft but you cannot give the quarterback a bunch of scrubs to work with and expect to be able to tell if he is the guy for the future. If he was performing like this with actual talent around him it would be time for him to go but this offense is putrid at best and for him to be able to prove himself is darn near impossible. Tom and Mike got this dead wrong.
I’m just praying that Hillis can bring a spark to this offense when he gets back. I agree with #9, Colt is showing just enough and it’s too early to give up on him. I saw a few people mention the decision to punt on fourth and 4 on the 40 yd line. I was absolutely livid when Shurmar made that decision. With the way our offense was struggling I think you have to take a chance and try to keep moving that late in the game. Oh well, on to next week I suppose. Houston is better than us but I’m not sold on them. Our defense will keep us in the game, let’s hope the offense can show something.
I agree with @17 that the coaches seem to have no interest in winning NOW. Shurmur appears content to run his game plan and not make adjustments away from (his version of) the WCO to slightly improve our chances of winning, ie, Colt out of the Shotgun, no-huddle offense, etc. Sucks for us now, but hopefully it will result in a better team next year. Hopefully. Also, C-bus Kevin already beat me to the comment that our WRs drop more balls than anybody (including themselves from last year, ugh).
I did want to ask if anyone else heard some snippet on 92.3 about someone on our line having a tell that gave away run/pass during the Seattle game, and if that got cleaned up or not for today’s abomination?
Ok, before this season normally I have only been able to listen via radio broadcast as I no longer live in Cleveland…nor Ohio. In the preseason a link from here led me to frontrow, so this season I have since the Philly preseason game watched the games,while listening to the radio broadcast(better announcers etc). Yet about halfway through the second quarter I turned off the picture and just listened. We got behind early,the whole first half was a travesty..yet we kept running down the play clock almost to the end of the game…WTF? That has to be on the coach I would think, anyone who thought Colt had a short leash and no room to ad-lib should look at what has happened to him on a strict offensive(in all senses of the word) game plan/philosophy with no apparent room for audibles or adlibbing by a QB. I would like to think everybody learns from thier mistakes..but hey that doesn’t always happen Murmmers a good xample that not everyone does learn.
I just like it when we throw the ball FORWARD instead of sideways or backwards….
Random thoughts from reading through comments
– QBs will make or break you. Someone talked about Dalton, you can mention Cam Newton, Christian Ponder all of those guy are rookies and playing at a higher level then McCoy.
– Who says you dont throw vertical in a WCO. Have you seen Philly or GB, 2 of the best WCO out there? They go vertical all the time. Its the only way to consistently complete your shorter passes if you take shots downfield. Sure it was in prevent, but after the Cribbs TD Colt had more openings for his slants in the last “drive.”
– The WRs are not that bad. They arent the best in the league, but if there was a QB who could get the ball to them they would look much better. Watch other games in the NFL. Most completions happen when there a coverage guy right on the receiver. Very rarely is the WR wide open. The QB needs to place it on the WR in stride.
– Part of the drop issue is on McCoy. Obviously people need to catch the ball if it get to them, but McCoy has a hard time hitting guys in the chest. He also leads them into suicide hits. Little got smacked a few times today, and MoMass got a concussion from a McCoy pass. Id bet Watson was cause of McCoy leading him into defenders as well (but I didnt see when he got hurt last week).
– Agreed with everyone questioning playcalling. I would like to see camera angles to show all WRs, because my speculation is the routes are for them to have one break and cut across the field. Watching Philly tonight they showed you can change direction after getting behind the LBs and have some great success on those routes. (thats more design, but it falls on Shurmer).
– Pre-snap on offense is abysmal. They arent out of the huddle and to the line until 12 seconds left in the play clock. From there, McCoy either does not see things correctly, or just chooses to not make corrections. I agree with Craig who last week wondered if it has something to do with the absence of Jake. Delhomme was great with the presnap reads and hot routes, and I would assume OL adjustments. Currently it looks like Mack is trying to make all the adjustments and its impossible for him to see everything.
to add a bit on
– The OL takes a lot of bad rap for a lot that isnt their fault. Yes they do get beat cold sometimes, like that first pass play. But often many times the D are jumping the snap count. Thats on Colt/Shurmer.
– Colt does not drop back as far as he should. A great point was brought up with Vick on SNF. He dropped back 10 yards, let the DEs get up field, then had space to step in and throw. Not only will that give COlt more time (greater distance from the DL) it should also allow him to see the field better. He does not have the poise needed in the pocket to do this though.
Norma and randy’s “foundation” have made enough money on the preseason and from foreigners buying gear. Uncle mike can head home now. Season over.
Where’s Eric Mangini when you need ’em?
Most Appropriate Coincidence of the Game:
On the last play of the game, the announcer called the play as “to Little.” (a pass to Greg Little) I couldn’t help but laugh. It was indeed “too little, (too late.)”
It looks more and more like there was a VALID reason Dalton,Ponder and Smith and the panther QB were taken in the first round and Colt in the 3rd. Reminds me of trading 1st round picks for Brady Quinn. Browns managment continues to outsmart the rest of the NFL.
@ Ritt: Probably, yes. But let’s not forget that everyone and their mother was saying that Colt was picking up the speed of NFL football so fast for a rookie, blah blah blah.
The statistic of the day for me is this one: The 2010 Browns had 22 dropped passes at the end of the season. The 2011 Browns? 24 ALREADY.
‘Nuff said.
@bobby – good points, but one note… the 49ers weren’t in a prevent defense when Cribbs scored. That was a legit drive… our only one of the game.
I wonder if Shurmur said “I’ll see ya Wednesday” after that “game?” What a joke this team is; they score 6 points on a pathetic Seattle team that may never win a game this year…and his response to poor performance on offense is to give them an extra day(s) off?!?
If the media had any clout they should be demanding answers, but of course, they won’t.
And raise your hand if you were laughing about the Bengals before the season, thinking they would be 0-8 at this point, with a new QB, etc. etc.
@21- I couldn’t agree more on the snap count thing. What kills me is that if I can see that from home, how can Shurmur not notice it and adjust? And it’s every week too.
I might buy the whole “young team dealing with injury” thing if Shurmur didn’t give these guys an extra day off this week. Our offense has been struggling. Why not give them more reps? And not to beat a dead horse, but it’s the same issue when he sat the starters in the fourth preseason game. Clearly, these guys need every rep than can get.
On top of that, it is moronic to go into a game with just two RBs on your active roster. I realize a third option would be a practice squad guy, but a body is a body. What are the chances that a RB goes down? Three out of ten? Best to have some other kind of back-up.
Also, Colt’s TD pass was atrocious. What should have been a no-doubter nearly ended up an interception. Thank God for Cribbs making the save.
@37:
This seems like a great argument to put him in the shotgun, where he is comfortable and does better.
When they punted on 4th and 2 from the SF 39, I asked my dad (who was up for the day) if he wanted to watch the NASCAR race at Martinsville.
And we did. The Browns had already lost at that point.