Open Thread: Browns at Cincinnati Bengals
September 28, 2008Sabathia Carries Brewers in to Playoffs
September 29, 2008They say a win is a win. How true. No matter how pathetic the Cleveland Browns looked against the Cincinnati Bengals on Sunday afternoon, all that will be noted when people look back on this one is that the Browns came away with the win by the final score of 20-12. Forget the atrocious play of QB Derek Anderson once more, forget the mere 43 yards rushing Jamal Lewis came up with after the game’s very first drive despite the Bengals having only the 28th ranked rush defense in the league, forget the 9 penalties (most of which were mental in nature), forget the fact that the Bengals were playing without their leader, captain, Pro Bowler, All-Pro QB Carson Palmer and instead had a QB making his first start since 2005 and who played his college ball at Harvard, forget the fact that the Browns were losing 6-3 to an 0-3 team with no QB heading into the 4th quarter. No, instead, people (the Browns) will say that all that matters is coming out unscathed with a win and that the Browns are now 1-3 instead of 0-4.
You’ll have to excuse me if I’m not beaming with enthusiasm after having to sit through yet another inexcusably poor performance for 3 quarters, and even into the 4th quarter. This was a game in which the Browns mustered only 134 net yards rushing and 127 net yards passing. Derek Anderson managed a QB Score of -9 for the game, a vast improvement from his QB Score of -121 the week before, but it was still his 3rd consecutive game with a negative QB Score.
While the Browns were able to finally take advantage of some of Cincy’s miscues in the 4th quarter to put the game away, this one still feels like a loss. Is there any doubt that the Browns would have easily lost this game had Carson Palmer been playing? The only thing stopping the Bengals from winning was Ryan Fitzpatrick’s ineptitude and inexperience.
As frustrating as this game was, the worst part is the team’s attitude, starting with head coach Romeo Crennel. When is enough going to be enough? Derek Anderson has to hit the bench, and the Browns have to give Brady Quinn a chance to show the team if he can handle being the starter. DA’s performance is leaving little doubt as of right now that this is his last year as Cleveland’s starter, but rather than wait until the following season to see if Quinn can do it, why not find out now? He couldn’t possibly play worse football than Derek Anderson is at this point. Perhaps the answer is because Crennel fears the message that would be sent on the subject of loyalty if he were to bench Anderson. You see, the only real reason for Crennel to still have his job right now, or even next season for that matter, is because of the loyalty that is preached in the Browns organization. Perhaps Crennel fears by benching DA it will send a message that loyalty in this franchise is out the door, and he could be next. Conveniently, RAC said after the game that he was this close to benching DA in the 3rd quarter, but decided to give DA one more chance to get the job done, and that just so happened to be the Browns’ first TD drive of the game. Sorry Romeo, we’re just not buying it. Romeo has hitched his tail to DA’s star, and both are going down in flames.
Oh, but don’t bring the subject up to precious little Derek Anderson. No, his feelings might get hurt. After the game, Tony Grossi wrote,
“When asked if he felt the pressure to get something going to save his job, Anderson said, “Nope. Don’t go there. I stayed in the game. You’re not going to score every single drive. Interceptions happen.”
Anderson conceded the win was a big relief, not only because of the team’s winless streak in 2008 but also because of what he termed a “frustrating” week.
“You guys made it pretty miserable,” he said, referring to the mid-week debate over whether to play Brady Quinn in his place. “It’s OK, that’s your job.””
Yeah, you’re right Derek. How DARE anyone question the almighty DA?!?! As though his job should be safe no matter WHAT happens and how AWFUL his play has been and continues to be. Nobody likes receiving poor performance reviews at work, I know I don’t…..but I certainly would never lash out at people when my performance is so obviously poor.
It’s not just DA who seems to be in denial. Again, according to Grossi,
“Cribbs, whose 44-yard kickoff return to start the second half rekindled his heroics from last year, said he was nearly brought to tears by the palpable sense of teamwork during the game.
“It was offense helping defense, defense helping offense. We were standing up for our defense on the sidelines. There was so much teamwork going on,” Cribbs said.”
Maybe we should all sit in a circle and sing Kum-Ba-Ya. I wonder if some of that outstanding teamwork he’s talking about is referring to Braylon Edwards having the audacity to get in DA’s face and scream at him on the sidelines after Braylon committed a stupid personal foul to negate a first down when the Browns were pinned back deep in their own territory. Braylon’s comments after the game about that penalty were equally bizarre, naive, and infuriating. He said,
“If I could do that play over, I would hit that guy the same way I hit him. All it was is passion. Personal foul or not, I’d still hit him to this day.”
If there is one morsel of truth in that statement, I hope Braylon is buried on the Browns’ bench never to see the field again. It’s hard enough for this offense to score points as it is, the last thing they need is their diva of a WR to keep killing them with 15 yard penalties because he’s trying to prove some macho point.
All across the board there are negatives that seem to cancel out every positive. Kamerion Wimbley finally gets a sack? Sure, after Alex Hall and Corey Williams flushed Fitzpatrick right into Wimbley’s arms. Eric Wright got an interception? Sure, and then he gave the ball right back by fumbling on the return. The Browns got to kneel the ball to kill the clock? Sure, but not before they got one last penalty….a substitution penalty.
This is really only skimming the top of all the problems with the Browns that were exposed in this game. So while the Browns players and coaches will continue to wallow in their own blissful ignorance and denial of just how bad this team really is, the rest of us will continue to spew our frustrations as fans. This is unacceptable. The Browns are playing minor league level football, but they want to pat themselves on the back for their “effort” and lash out at those who dare to question them. Their coach continues to put an undisciplined and uninspired looking team on the field week in and week out. The GM wasted a 1st round draft pick on a backup QB who stands on the sidelines and watches while the overpaid starter who just got a nice, fat contract extension ruins the Browns season on the field.
Yes, the Browns won this game. It would be nice to say that this was a step in the right direction, but how can anyone who watched this game say that with a straight face? This wasn’t a step in the right direction, it was confirmation of our worst fears….that this team as currently constituted is one of the 5 worst teams in the NFL. The Browns players might be able to smile and put on a happy face about this, but for fans, it’s just another painful reminder of what it means to be a Browns fan.
34 Comments
Wow, tell us how you really feel! Lol. I pretty much agree with most of that. It didn’t feel like a win. I am in Alaska and my brother in California, neither of us could watch the game, but we followed it online. It sure seemed to us the Browns stunk up the joint until Fitzcraptic lost it for the Bengals.
We’ll see what happens after the bye, but the Giants have looked great up until now. I have a feeling it will be a slaughter, but maybe our guys heal up and the Giants come back to earth next week.
The only reason I say to keep DA in is that if Quinn gets in and sucks, we are not only ruined for this year, but years to come as well. Remember when Tim Couch appeared for the first time during the very first game vs. The Steelers in 1999? First pass……interception.
And look how that worked out in the end.
This year may as well be totally written off. If we throw the fabled Quinn in the mix and he isn’t the savior most are believing he’ll be, we will have a longer road ahead.
Excellent article, BTW.
Great stuff, Rock. Those comments by Edwards are definitely odd.
Did anyone ask Corey Williams or Leonard if they would line up in the neutral zone countless times if they could do it again?
Barry,
I think the thought is that since the season doesn’t look good, we might as well see what we have in Quinn. DA is going to give you flashes, but his goofy attitude which was a plus last season isn’t doing well under the pressure of expectations. We need 8+ games to evaluate Quinn. Then we can see what we have for (here we go again) next year. If we let DA flop for the rest of the year then he probably have a good game or two and we’ll have the same controversy next year. I say put Quinn in and let him take his lumps. If he improves towards the end of the year then you have something to build on. But come on with the play calling yesterday, it was obvious they had no faith in DA to do anything. Obvious short passing downs and we run.
I wonder if the Browns are silly enough to think that the fans are all in good spirits now? I wonder if the Browns think the fans are stupid enough to be optimistic? I wonder if DA will be upset when he is booed after his first INT in a couple Mondays?
This team is completely pathetic and the fact that they are trying to hide it makes it a million times worse.
Maybe we can trade DA to MINN like right now
I forgot to add…..GREAT article Rock
Great post Rock – this was the worst win I can even remember. I’ve never been so infuriated by a game that my team ultimately won. I think what is frustrating is that the team is acting like it answered the questions surrounding it, when in reality, it just raised more. Crennel has clearly hitched his fat a*s to DA’s… a truly foolish decision.
This team still plays incredibly stupid, arrogant and sluggish football. We’re going to get demolished by the Giants on a national stage AGAIN. My prediction… BQ is in by the 4th quarter in garbage time.
I completely agree….
Scott,
Thanks for pointing out the lining up in the neutral zone thing. I was livid. Seriously… four, five times? There were times where they’d line up and I’d say, “well, looks like they’re lined up in the neutral zone AGAIN.” My buddy said, “Too bad they can’t have that blue line on the actual field so our guys would know where to line up.”
Sheesh.
As a Michigan fan who has loved Edwards ever since he destroyed Michigan State, it’s becoming really, really hard to root for him right now.
See, this would be the week to make the changes. Wait, scratch that, TODAY would be the day to make changes. You have two weeks until the Giants game. Fire Romeo, not sure who’d I’d put as interm, but get Jaba off our sidelines. Trade Derek Anderson to Minnesota for a defensive player and a high draft pick. They’re the only team desperate enough to pay a high ransom for a QB that has functioned well in the past.
Another thing that is bothering me, why is it that we run the ball more to the right side of the line then the left? On the left we have two studs, on the right average linemen. On the left we usually get positive yardage. On the right we’re lucky if we reach the line of scrimmage.
Final point, does anyone else think that Alex Hall is playing Willie McGinnest out of his starting job right now?
I agree about Hall. Back to back weeks, he’s made athletic plays to get the QB that Willie just can’t make anymore. I don’t see how there’s enough “experience” in McGinnest’s tank left to take that kind of athleticism off the field.
How about a trade of DA and Edwards to ANYWHERE?
I think that at this point, we might as well let DA continue to play and then if he can’t improve, Crennel should put Quinn in around week 8 or 9. We are not just one quarterback away from being a playoff team. We’re 1 quarterback, a few receivers (who are going to get healthy eventually), a few linebackers, a quality 3-4 defensive end, and a good right guard/tackle tandem away from being playoff contenders. You could probably add a cornerback to that equation too, if you like. So changing the QB right now isn’t a dire need… Quinn will still get his 8 games if DA can’t get it together.
Stated perfectly #13.
If you disband the team now then they will only become even MORE unbearable to watch (if you can imagine that). I say let them live in their fantasy world so that they can maybe win a few more games this season.
I like watching us win, but I couldn’t help thinking how badly this team is going to get buried by the Giants 2 weeks from now. Its not going to be pretty…
Just so I’m clear, P@ and Gregg, you guys think Quinn would be worse than DA? Very interesting. I can’t say I agree, but that’s definitely an interesting POV. I think the Browns need to go with whoever they think gives them the best chance of winning, and I’m of the belief now that person is BQ.
Alex Hall is appearing to be a gem. He plays fast and plays with passion, peace Willie. Romeo again proved his ignorance as a head coach yesterday. He seems to be almost overwhelmed by the job. That’s not a good sign. Quinn needs to be playing. If they don’t want to play him, trade him. It’s stupid to keep him on the bench when DA is playing like DS. He disgusts me with his stupid attitude.
Here’s the obvious bit of truth that absolutely no Browns fan seems to understand. The ultimate problem of the team is not Derek Anderson. It’s Romeo Crennel. RAC has managed to extract approximately less than nothing from every single solitary impact player the Browns have this season. Braylon Edwards is playing like a prima donna chicken with his head cut off. Winslow looks on the verge of murdering somebody every time they don’t throw to him on third down. Jamal Lewis looks like Jamal Lewis the last few years with the Ravens. Kamerion Wimbely might as well be a ghost. I don’t think I’ve noticed Corey Williams in the game yet. Donte Stallworth apparently has sand in his vagina. And Romeo inexplicably refuses to use Jerome Harrison despite every time he touches the ball the Browns seem to gain 10 yards. What does this tell you? It’s the coach. It’s the mother effin’ coach!
What makes you think that an unproven second year quarterback with 1 quarter of real game experience is going to right a ship that is completely out of control? What? Because he was a first round pick? Because he’s a hometown kid? Because he was famous in college? He was famous in college because he played for an overrated Notre Dame team coached by an overrated coach that couldn’t win a big game. And this is the man who you want to place your faith? If you put Brady Quinn right now, he’s going to struggle… mightly. Possibly worse than Derek Anderson. And you know, what? It’s going to turn him into Tim Couch.
You CAN’T throw an inexperienced quarterback onto a team with no direction. It’s a suicide move because it will destroy your quarterback confidence and the fans will inevitably turn on him. You will when he sucks. And he will suck playing for THIS Browns team. Lack of direction with an inexperienced quarteback will kill a career. It killed Couch’s career. It killed David Carr’s career. It killed Akili Smith’s career. It killed Joey Harrington’s career. It killed Alex Smith’s career. And it will kill Brady Quinn’s career. The right model is to do what Green Bay is doing. Have your future franchise quarterback sit on the bench for a few years studying behind a seasoned quarterback. And don’t bring him in until he’s absolutely 100% ready.
The Browns shouldn’t do any major personnel changes until they fire the soul sucking cancer that is Romeo Crennel. This is obvious.
RAC needs to go. Then we can toss Derek Anderson to the curb.
Something that always surprises me with the Browns is that, when the offense plays well, the defense stinks and vice versa. I think the D-line held up quite nicely during the first three quarters. Then BE makes the touch down catch and just in a matter of seconds, the Bengals were driving down the field and score leaving our defense biting in the dust. Why cant the O and D-line feed off each others (positive) energy? Last year, we had the NFL’s worst defense combined with one of the better offenses. It just seems that the other half of the team gets comfortable and lazy when the other half of the team steps up. That needs to be addressed!
All in all, DA still played horrible and even though Romeo got away with it this time, why not give BQ a shot RIGHT NOW knowing that he can’t be any worse than DA?
@DocZeus: the only way for a guy to get experience is by playing. Nobody is saying BQ is the answer. All we’re saying is that we’d sure like to find out. How many years do you propose BQ rot on the bench before the Browns actually give him a chance? It’s easy to mentioned all those QBs, but all those guys played in their first year. This is BQ’s 2nd season. It’s time to see what the kid is made of, so when the Browns have the #2 overall pick, they can know if they need to look at QBs. We know Romeo must go, but so must DA. He is KILLING this team right now.
C’mon man, don’t think for a second that the Browns organization actually believes that they are good after winning this game. I guarantee that everyone in the front office is just as worried about the state of the franchise as last week. Yes they are happy to win a game, but don’t think that Phil Savage is sitting there saying “Phew, now we can just roll with DA!”. You’re not the only one that feels like this was more or less a loss.
I don’t understand some of the other points in this article either. DA wasn’t “lashing out” at anyone; I think he was just being honest. All he said was that the Cleveland media made his life tougher this week. You yourself acknowledge that being criticized is tough. And then he said that it’s their job and their justified in it. What’s the problem with that? Dude is taking it and just made an honest comment about how this week was hard.
The point about Crennel being tied to DA makes no sense either. We’ll see Quinn take over sometime this year, and it won’t be an indictment of Crennel. He just wanted to give DA another chance. I wouldn’t have done it, but maybe he thought he could light a fire under DA. Are you that convinced that Quinn would have won the game in the second half?!?! I sure as hell am not. The job of the coach is to put players in to win the game.
Also, people need to stop complaining about DA’s extension. The deal is essentially an incentive laden one year deal. If we dump him after this year (I hope!) the hit is not substantial. So it’s not “ruining our team” or anything.
There are two things you commented on that make a lot of sense though. One is the RIDICULOUS penalties that keep occurring (how hard is it to line up onsides?!?!). The other is Braylon freaking Edwards. Guy needs to get his head checked if he says he would commit the same 15 yard penalty again. Dude is a complete idiot. We obviously can’t bench him for the rest of the season like you advocate (yes, Steptoe as our WR1 will really help the team!). However, someone needs to give him the serious smackdown. Suspend him for a game or something. Or just sew his lips shut.
What has bothered me over the past few seasons has been that my favorite team doesn’t have any players that I like. It’s not because they’re losers, it because they’re a’holes. I’ve rooted for lots of losing teams that had players I liked. Seriously, did you ever imagine that K2 would be the one guy on the team that you would pull for? It’s because of his grit and determination.
Was I the only one screaming at Edwards to pick up his air guitar and instead walk over to the camera and apologize for his play this season. My god, do your job for a change and then shut your mouth.
@Nick: You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But I have seen NOTHING from this organization that would lead me to believe that they are trying to get better this year. As for DA, I think he did lash out with his “Nope. Don’t go there” comment. His whole attitude was ridiculous. You’re an NFL QB and you’re playing worse than anyone else at your position in the NFL. Of course the media is going to get on you a bit. The fact that DA can’t handle a little criticism says a lot to me about his mentality right now and his inability to focus on just being a good QB.
As for DA ruining the team, I don’t care about next year. I’m talking about right now. He is killing this team right now with his downright horrendous play. Seriously, 3 consecutive weeks with a negative QB Score. Sure, the o-line is playing somewhat poorly and his WRs are equally awful, but we don’t have a first round pick rotting on the bench at those positions, so we can’t make a change there. But we can make a change at QB, and it’s time right now to find out what we have in Quinn. But that’s not going to happen because Crennel has shown no interest whatsoever in letting “the other guy”, as he so lovingly calls Quinn, get any kind of playing time.
I appreciate your comment, and I hope you’re right. I just don’t think you are.
@DocZeus,
You are clearly not reading this site very much if you think nobody understands that RAC is a major problem.
I dont really think that DA is the answer in the longterm, but I dont think that Brady is the better QB right now. I dont understand this concept of “rotting on the bench.” This is Brady’s second NFL season but we spent our 1st round pick this year to get him. Calm down and be patient. If DA doesnt get his act together we will see Brady long before this season is over.
I wonder if you all will be calling for Brady’s head when the oline is still letting defenders through and he doesnt have any recievers to throw to causing the defense to catch many of his passes too.
I go back and forth on Brady as well. The main difference you will see between him and the careers of all the failures mentioned earier is the O Line. I know it is not playing awesome right now, but they can protect him far better than Alex Smith’s, Tim Couch’s, Akili Smith’s, and Joey Harrington’s lines ever did. That, even more than time to learn, is the most important part in the development of a young QB, in my opinion.
I doubt that if we go to Quinn he will ride in and save the season. But at some point you do have to see what you have. It is his second season, but his first was marred by a holdout and this was his first full offseason, and he wasn’t even the starter. So there should be some growing pains for sure.
The coaching is terrible and the system hasn’t been great. But I don’t think bringing in Quinn and having him struggle for awhile will kill his career. Joe Thomas and company will keep him on his feet enough to learn and grow, and when we go into the draft with a high pick, we won’t have to pick another young QB.
If Quinn is throwing passes at his receivers’ feet, staring down his receivers, and throwing more interceptions than anyone else in the league, like DA is doing, then yes, I will call for Quinn’s head as well.
Seriously, how can anyone defend DA at this point??? We all know there are more problems than just QB, but that doesn’t change the fact that QB is a serious problem for this team right now. And I’m sorry, Sam, but we may have used this year’s draft pick on Quinn, but we picked Quinn last year. Rotting on the bench is precisely what he’s doing right now. He’s in his 2nd year, if he doesn’t know the offense by now, then we’ve got major problems. He’s watched plenty of bad QB play by DA, now it’s his turn to get in there and show us what he can do.
@RockKing
I am proposing that we simply wait on Quinn until he’s ACTUALLY ready. If he’s ready tommorow then put him in but if he’s not you’re looking at a recipe for disaster. There was nothing to suggest in the preseason that Brady Quinn is going to do that much better. It wasn’t like the Browns were lighting it up when he was in and he started two preseason games. Personally, I thought Ken Dorsey looked better than both of them in the preseason. I just feel tossing Quinn into a no-win situation is going to murder his confidence. I don’t think this season is salvegable under anybody at this point as long as Romeo Crennel continues to be behind the driver’s seat.
@DP
I wasn’t directing it towards this blog specifically. Rather I was directing my comments towards the whole of the Browns fanbase who seem to be under the delusioned impression that Brady Quinn is Tom Brady.
I was kinda wondering why we have not seen Quinn. Any chance he’s not been impressing much in practice? Because I can’t think of a reason why he isn’t being given a chance.
I didn’t read all the comments but here are my thoughts on the game/post:
1. I think the Giants game will tell us everything we need to know about our team, if we really are starting to gel and play like we did last year as we flashed in the fourth quarter, perhaps we’re seeing a breakout game on national TV. If not, well major changes are due.
2. Braylon is dumb, he went to that state up north what do you expect? But in all seriousness I think Braylon has wayy to much of the Prima-Donna receiver in him than people realize. When he preforms it’s covered up. When he doesnt, well it isn’t pretty.
3. Along the same lines of point 2, I hate people who put K2 and Braylon in the same boat. K2 has more talent, more character, more passion, and a better attitude than Braylon. Despite this he’s put into that boat for his “Soldier” rant and his Motorcycle accident. Unfair.
4. Will we win a Primetime game this year? we’ve got @ Bill, @ Eagles, and Giants. Uh-Oh
5. Yes we will. Browns 28 Giants 20.
I don’t see how anyone who has watched the first four games and can honestly say DA deserves to remain the starting quarterback. I haven’t seen a more stale offense, well since Charlie Frye was traded to Seattle. I think everything just went DA’s way his first ten starts and since his true ability and lack of confidence has taken over. Of course Brady Quinn isn’t the easy answer, otherwise even Romeo would have already made the switch, but enough is enough already. We have to give the kid a shot and see what he can do, otherwise this season will have been a complete waste.
I understand the want to protect a young NFL QB, but think about this. All those QBs you mentioned had similar situations, they were starting their rookie year behind bad offensive lines and without any targets. They were all high draft picks because those teams were obviously bad and thought the solution was a new QB and not building around it.
Trent Edwards is a second year QB, taken after Quinn, and his team is undefeated. He doesn’t have an Edwards or Winslow to throw to. I’d say Donte, but will he ever play for the Browns? Now if he’s just not performing well in practice or what not, I understand not playing him. If it’s because you’re preaching loyalty to the team and are going to stand behind your first choice, then you should be fired RAC. Look at what a sudden change in QB did for us last season, we should have made the playoffs. If we’re keeping Quinn out just so he can “get experience” then slap yourself a few times and have faith in a player you paid a high price for.
@ Bobby – The Browns are playing this year like they payed last year. They just played terrible teams last year. They aren’t so lucky this year
@RockKing
This is a little late for a response, but what I’m saying is that we are again in a “waiting for next year” mode. I’m not sure if you think the Browns are a playoff team this year, but I don’t see it. If you move in Brady Quinn at this point, you are only giving him a few more games worth of experience (games where he could easily get injured) and I think it hurts the Browns’ chances to unload DA in a trade. Why not wait until week 9 to make a decision? If DA continues to suck at his current level of terribleness then the Browns can put in Quinn and go forward from there. If DA plays well then the Browns can build DA’s trade resume, give Quinn a bunch of reps in weeks 15-17 when the Browns have already been eliminated from the playoffs, and then trade DA in the offseason.
Yeah, it’s a pessimistic outlook as a Browns fan, but it’s what I perceive to be truth.